Unraveling the 1689 and WCF Confessions- The Mysteries in Calvinism

[civic]

They are the same- Calvinism under a different name.

WCF CHAPTER 3 Of God’s Eternal Decree: CH3.1-CH3.3
1. God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.

2. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions, yet hath he not decreed anything because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.

3. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death.

The above is nothing but Calvinist double talk trying to get their god off the hook with determinism and predestination. The Author and Originator in every systematic is the responsible party with the exception of Calvinism. If I’m predestined as a child of wrath/destruction from Eternity then I do not have a choice or a chance to be saved as I was condemned before I was born. It’s the very definition of unloving, uncharitable and hateful. Calvinism is an attack on the loving and holy nature and character of our God.

The same double talk below in the 1689 :

CHAPTER 3

OF GOD’S DECREE

Paragraph 1. God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;1 yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;2 nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established;3 in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree.

Paragraph 2. Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions,5 yet hath He not decreed anything, because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions

Paragraph 3. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ,7 to the praise of His glorious grace;8 others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of His glorious justice

Paragraph 5. Those of mankind that are predestinated to life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to His eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, hath chosen in Christ unto everlasting glory, out of His mere free grace and love,11 without any other thing in the creature as a condition or cause moving Him thereunto.

Notice the calvinists " plea to " mystery " below when they cannot explain the contradictions with their doctrines- out comes the mystery card.

Paragraph 7. The doctrine of the high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care, that men attending the will of God revealed in His Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election;18 so shall this doctrine afford matter of praise,19 reverence, and admiration of God, and of humility,20 diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel.

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

The MYSTERY BOX explained below

I’m sitting on the plane awaiting takeoff from Dallas-Fort Worth to Orlando, FL for our June 8-9 regional conference on the theme “Is Calvinism Biblical?”

I pull out my conference schedule and look it over. Then I begin to go over the message I was giving that night.

Then something unusual happens.

It has become very rare when the stranger sitting next to me on the plane says anything more than hello. Even that is unusual. But the guy sitting next to me looks over and says, “That is a great question. Is Calvinism Biblical?”

He expects an answer. So I tell him we are having a conference on this theme and that while Calvinism is well-intentioned, the answer is no, it is not Biblical.

He then made this insightful comment:

I’ve found that when Calvinists run up against verses that do not fit their system, they put them in a box I like to call “the mystery box.” They explain that the verses in this box are a mystery. We cannot fully understand mystery verses. They appear to contradict Calvinism, but we know that can’t be true, so they are a mystery.

I thought that was a great observation. I too have read and spoken with many Calvinists who say that many verses seems to teach that faith is a condition of everlasting life, but we know that regeneration precedes faith. They say that some verses appear to teach that the unregenerate can believe, but we know that dead people can’t believe. Other verses appear to say that Christ died for everyone, but we know He only died for the elect. And so forth. While they do not mention a mystery box explicitly, they are indeed consigning such verses to that box.

I spoke three times in Orlando. In each message I mentioned the mystery box. Listeners found this idea to be very helpful.

The problem with five-point (or six-point) Calvinism is the size of their mystery verses box. It is huge. They have scores of mystery verses. They have so many verses in their mystery box that they should simply abandon the system and embrace what the Word of God teaches—that the Lord Jesus died for the sin of everyone so that whoever simply believes in Him has everlasting life (John 3:16). They should switch from being Calvinists to being Biblicists.

I found out that the young man attends an Evangelical church in the DFW Metroplex. It sounds like an interesting church. He seemed to agree when I mentioned that our view is the Bible teaches that everlasting life is a free gift which is received by faith alone, apart from works, and that perseverance is not required to retain everlasting life. I gave him my card and encouraged him to check out our website. I hope he did. He is a very insightful person. I am thankful for the mystery-box illustration he gave me. Well, I guess he’s given it to all of us now that I’ve shared it with you.https://faithalone.org/blog/calvinism-has-a-box-of-mystery-verses/

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

What about this scenario in Eternity in relation to Calvinism, WCF/ 1689 Confession and Decree of God ?

Commenting on what Paul says in Romans 9, John Calvin candidly explains, “He [Paul] concludes that God has mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth (Rom 9:18). You see how he refers both to the mere pleasure of God. Therefore, if we cannot assign any reason for his bestowing mercy on his people, but just that it so pleases him, neither can we have any reason for his reprobating others but his will“[3] (italics added). Calvin further says the reprobate are doomed in God’s “hidden purpose” while simultaneously (and quite contradictorily) maintaining “so wonderful is his love towards mankind that he would have them all to be saved.”[4] Calvin classifies God’s good pleasure to doom this innumerable group of people, whom he created, to such a ghastly and unalterable fate, which he did not have to choose, as “incomprehensible judgment.”[5]

Similarly, the Canons of Dort assert, “Moreover, Holy Scripture . . . further bears witness that not all people have been chosen but that some have not been chosen or have been passed by in God’s eternal election—those, that is, concerning whom God, on the basis of his entirely free, most just, irreproachable, and unchangeable good pleasure, made the following decision: to leave them in the common misery into which, by their own fault, they have plunged themselves; not to grant them saving faith and the grace of conversion, but finally to condemn and eternally punish them”[6] (italics added).

Fast forward to eternity. Imagine all the redeemed, unconditionally elected according to Calvinism, are standing on the precipice of hell in which untold billions of people suffer unimaginable, unquenchable, and unparalleled agony and torment. While the elect gaze into the cauldron of hell, one of the unconditionally elect exclaims God is holy. And that proclamation is immediately and worshipfully met by thunderous amens and hallelujahs since, whether redeemed or judged, God’s perfect and unlimited righteousness and holiness are irrefutably evident to all.

Then another of the unconditionally elect, caught up in the moment, resoundingly declares that God is love. An eerie pause follows this declaration. A hollow cavern of silence. A silence not from or awakening calmness, but a silence invoked by an insurmountable contradiction. A silence wherein an attribute of God is suppressed by the conquest of evidence; a silence like never before. It is not one of awe and glorious wonder but one of confusion and demoralization of the elect.

While God clearly dealt with the elect and the damned in holiness, and the elect in love, it is impossible to truthfully say God dealt with the damned, the reprobate, in perfect love, salvific love. Seeking to explain how God is perfect love and yet withholds his salvific love from those he created and predetermined for eternal torment is like trying to explain God as perfect holiness if he did not deal with all people and sin in perfect holiness.

Moreover, seeking to dismiss this contradiction of God’s perfect love by appealing to such as how God’s withholding his power at times does not equal that he is not omnipotent is fallacious. The reason this argument is fallacious is because love is a moral attribute like holiness and power is not. Consequently, he may display or withhold exercising his omnipotence based on his moral attributes, but his moral nature of perfect holiness, righteousness, and love is always perfectly present. Calvinism calls this type of inescapable dilemma a “mystery.” Anywhere else, it is called what it is, a tragic contradiction in Calvinism, that depicts God unlike the God of Scripture. Flowers

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

The appeal to mystery fallacy

An appeal to mystery is essentially an appeal to an extra-biblical authority, unless the Bible itself establishes that a mystery is involved. So Calvinists, therefore, are claiming an extra-biblical authority in order to resolve their logical contradictions. So when Calvinists infer a Secret Will, that is a claim to an extra-biblical authority.

The Appeal to Mystery fallacy is a type of logical fallacy that occurs when an argument proposes, in place of an explanation, the assertion that there can be no explanation, i.e. that the fact to be explained is unexplainable 1. This fallacy is often persuasive because it mimics epistemological modesty. However, there is a difference. A good hypothesis is understood to be provisional. We understand that errors are possible. When any scientist offers any real hypothesis to explain some phenomenon, he would be wise to add, “Of course, I might be wrong,” but no such apology is really necessary. We already know he might be wrong. But he might also be right. If he is wrong, we hope his theory will eventually be replaced by a better theory. Real epistemological modesty is an invitation to further inquiry. It is an admission that a better theory may be possible. The Appeal to Mystery, by contrast, is used, not to invite further inquiry, but to shut down further inquiry by claiming that truth (in this matter) is unattainable. No better theory is possible because no theory could possibly be adequate. It says, “This might be wrong,” not in order to replace one theory with a better theory, but in order to replace one theory with no theory at all.

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

This chapter focuses on one of the common fallacies in Western philosophy called 'mystery, therefore magic fallacy' (MTM). One commits the (MTM) when one takes the fact that one cannot find a “natural” or “rational” explanation for some event or thing as a reason to favor or to accept a magical, supernatural, or fantastic explanation for that event or thing. This fallacy gets its name from the fact that we instinctually avoid it every time we watch a good magic show. MTM is very common in religious circles since “God did it” is often the religious supernatural explanation of choice. In fact, MTM is simply another way of committing the appeal to ignorance fallacy. When committing MTM, one simply takes one's inability to prove there is a natural explanation (by finding one) to be a good reason to conclude there is not one. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/9781119165811.ch38

hope this helps !!!

 

[makesends]

They are the same- Calvinism under a different name.

WCF CHAPTER 3 Of God’s Eternal Decree: CH3.1-CH3.3
1. God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.

2. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions, yet hath he not decreed anything because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.

3. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death.

The above is nothing but Calvinist double talk trying to get their god off the hook with determinism and predestination. The Author and Originator in every systematic is the responsible party with the exception of Calvinism. If I’m predestined as a child of wrath/destruction from Eternity then I do not have a choice or a chance to be saved as I was condemned before I was born. It’s the very definition of unloving, uncharitable and hateful. Calvinism is an attack on the loving and holy nature and character of our God.

The same double talk below in the 1689 :

CHAPTER 3

OF GOD’S DECREE

Paragraph 1. God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;1 yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;2 nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established;3 in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree.

Paragraph 2. Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions,5 yet hath He not decreed anything, because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions

Paragraph 3. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ,7 to the praise of His glorious grace;8 others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of His glorious justice

Paragraph 5. Those of mankind that are predestinated to life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to His eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, hath chosen in Christ unto everlasting glory, out of His mere free grace and love,11 without any other thing in the creature as a condition or cause moving Him thereunto.

Notice the calvinists " plea to " mystery " below when they cannot explain the contradictions with their doctrines- out comes the mystery card.

Paragraph 7. The doctrine of the high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care, that men attending the will of God revealed in His Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election;18 so shall this doctrine afford matter of praise,19 reverence, and admiration of God, and of humility,20 diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel.

hope this helps !!!

Presumably you at one time, being then a Calvinist, agreed with these in principle, at least? Did you see no contradiction in the words then, or what happened that you did not understand at the time? I'm asking, if you agreed with them, why did you agree with them? Did you not really think about it?

 

[makesends]

The MYSTERY BOX explained below

I’m sitting on the plane awaiting takeoff from Dallas-Fort Worth to Orlando, FL for our June 8-9 regional conference on the theme “Is Calvinism Biblical?”

I pull out my conference schedule and look it over. Then I begin to go over the message I was giving that night.

Then something unusual happens.

It has become very rare when the stranger sitting next to me on the plane says anything more than hello. Even that is unusual. But the guy sitting next to me looks over and says, “That is a great question. Is Calvinism Biblical?”

He expects an answer. So I tell him we are having a conference on this theme and that while Calvinism is well-intentioned, the answer is no, it is not Biblical.

He then made this insightful comment:

I’ve found that when Calvinists run up against verses that do not fit their system, they put them in a box I like to call “the mystery box.” They explain that the verses in this box are a mystery. We cannot fully understand mystery verses. They appear to contradict Calvinism, but we know that can’t be true, so they are a mystery.

I thought that was a great observation. I too have read and spoken with many Calvinists who say that many verses seems to teach that faith is a condition of everlasting life, but we know that regeneration precedes faith. They say that some verses appear to teach that the unregenerate can believe, but we know that dead people can’t believe. Other verses appear to say that Christ died for everyone, but we know He only died for the elect. And so forth. While they do not mention a mystery box explicitly, they are indeed consigning such verses to that box.

I spoke three times in Orlando. In each message I mentioned the mystery box. Listeners found this idea to be very helpful.

The problem with five-point (or six-point) Calvinism is the size of their mystery verses box. It is huge. They have scores of mystery verses. They have so many verses in their mystery box that they should simply abandon the system and embrace what the Word of God teaches—that the Lord Jesus died for the sin of everyone so that whoever simply believes in Him has everlasting life (John 3:16). They should switch from being Calvinists to being Biblicists.

I found out that the young man attends an Evangelical church in the DFW Metroplex. It sounds like an interesting church. He seemed to agree when I mentioned that our view is the Bible teaches that everlasting life is a free gift which is received by faith alone, apart from works, and that perseverance is not required to retain everlasting life. I gave him my card and encouraged him to check out our website. I hope he did. He is a very insightful person. I am thankful for the mystery-box illustration he gave me. Well, I guess he’s given it to all of us now that I’ve shared it with you.https://faithalone.org/blog/calvinism-has-a-box-of-mystery-verses/

hope this helps !!!

Do all Calvinists appeal to this mystery box? I'm curious which verses are in it.

 

[makesends]

This chapter focuses on one of the common fallacies in Western philosophy called 'mystery, therefore magic fallacy' (MTM). One commits the (MTM) when one takes the fact that one cannot find a “natural” or “rational” explanation for some event or thing as a reason to favor or to accept a magical, supernatural, or fantastic explanation for that event or thing. This fallacy gets its name from the fact that we instinctually avoid it every time we watch a good magic show. MTM is very common in religious circles since “God did it” is often the religious supernatural explanation of choice. In fact, MTM is simply another way of committing the appeal to ignorance fallacy. When committing MTM, one simply takes one's inability to prove there is a natural explanation (by finding one) to be a good reason to conclude there is not one. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/9781119165811.ch38

hope this helps !!!

I assume you admit this for any soteriological system. Those who claim some degree of 'first cause'ism' to the freedom of man, for instance, have no reconciliation to show except to claim that God caused this self-contradictory notion to be so, "because he can", and because it is the only logically feasible answer to how man is to answer for his own sin. To me, there is more than a huge mystery there.

But I must say that sometimes when I am accused of this "mystery making", I have been making what seems to me the only rational explanation for the whole set of facts, right back to First Cause himself.

That is to say, I can be attributing the very fact of the will of man to God's causation, and trying to show how man is not even able to do anything, without God's causation —thus God establishing the fact of man's choosing and the existence of the choices man makes—even comparing the vapor that the reality of this temporal system is, compared to the solid reality of God's economy— and I get accused of appealing to mystery. The fact that we are not God is not an appeal to mystery.

I can understand that some things I say are not well explained, and even not well developed, and I know when I speak in person individually, people's eyes begin to glaze over, but to me, there is no logical (nor Biblical) discrepancy to be found. I hear very vague objections —"but that denies God's love, because...." which I don't doubt sound specific to the person objecting, because they think God's Love is well-defined and well-understood and well-argued as they define and understand it, but to me, their understanding, like mine, of what God's love and God's goodness is falls so short as to be only useful —not definitive—no matter how well we have studied or experienced it.