Did Jesus have freewill

[PeanutGallery]

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Heb 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

1689 BCF:
God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and
unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass.
---------------------------------

If man does not have freewill, does that mean Jesus also did not have freewill; otherwise, how could Jesus be truly partaker of flesh and blood, seed of Abraham, made like unto his brethren?

 

[civic]

If Jesus is like us in every way as a man but without sin then according to Calvinists Jesus did not have a free will. He was a robot like the rest of us without sin.

When He said nevertheless not MY WILL be done but your will be done becomes meaningless and Jesus was wrong when He said He had His own will.

Also being tempted in all ways like us becomes meaningless as well.

Great thread Thanks !

 

[praise_yeshua]

If Jesus is like us in every way as a man but without sin then according to Calvinists Jesus did not have a free will. He was a robot like the rest of us without sin.

When He said nevertheless not MY WILL be done but your will be done becomes meaningless and Jesus was wrong when He said He had His own will.

Also being tempted in all ways like us becomes meaningless as well.

Great thread Thanks !

I've meet Calvinists that deny that God has freewill.

A limited will that is not free to expand is quantifiable. Which I often point out to Calvinism. They are actually limiting God in their position. They've basically turned God into an Essence that has one single thought that encompasses all of Eternity.

It really is a sad position to take.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

We have free will in that we freely choose according to our inclination. As unregenerate, our inclination is toward sin. Only after we are born from above does our inclination change.

Jesus had free will in that he freely chose according to His inclination. His inclination was always to please the Father.

John 8:29 And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him.”

 

[Diserner]

Jesus, bring God himself, did have access to power and perfection the rest of us do not naturally have—the Spirit without measure.

This does not mean no freedom of choice however.

 

[praise_yeshua]

We have free will in that we freely choose according to our inclination. As unregenerate, our inclination is toward sin. Only after we are born from above does our inclination change.

Jesus had free will in that he freely chose according to His inclination. His inclination was always to please the Father.

John 8:29 And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him.”

I don't understand why you insist on treating inclination as an absolute. It is not. I has never been an absolute. I have the inclination to "bite my fingernails". It is habitual but I resist it. There are times I do and times I do not. This is inclination.

 

[Taylor]

I Think Jesus did have free will the same way we have free will.

All the Gospel writers described Jesus Christ as a real human being. He was born of a woman. In his childhood years, Jesus had to grow in knowledge and physical strength just like any other child (Luke 2:52). He had to learn to crawl before he walked. He had to learn to talk. He did not know the alphabet automatically. He went to school with the other boys his age. He could get hungry and need food (Matt. 4:2).

At times He was physically exhausted (Luke 8:23) and needed rest (Mark 6:31). He learned obedience by the things He suffered (Heb. 5:8). He had to ask the whereabouts of things (John 11:34) or to gain information (John 18:34). He did not know the time of the end of the world (Mark 13:32). He was tempted and tried in many ways (Heb. 2:18).

The full humanity of Jesus is demonstrated by the fact that He possessed all the human emotions that we have.

 

[Taylor]

Jesus, bring God himself, did have access to power and perfection the rest of us do not naturally have—the Spirit without measure.

This does not mean no freedom of choice however.

That's what I believe.

 

[TomL]

I Think Jesus did have free will the same way we have free will.

All the Gospel writers described Jesus Christ as a real human being. He was born of a woman. In his childhood years, Jesus had to grow in knowledge and physical strength just like any other child (Luke 2:52). He had to learn to crawl before he walked. He had to learn to talk. He did not know the alphabet automatically. He went to school with the other boys his age. He could get hungry and need food (Matt. 4:2).

At times He was physically exhausted (Luke 8:23) and needed rest (Mark 6:31). He learned obedience by the things He suffered (Heb. 5:8). He had to ask the whereabouts of things (John 11:34) or to gain information (John 18:34). He did not know the time of the end of the world (Mark 13:32). He was tempted and tried in many ways (Heb. 2:18).

The full humanity of Jesus is demonstrated by the fact that He possessed all the human emotions that we have.

There is an interesting verse

Hebrews 2:17–18 (ESV) — 17 Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

 

[Rockson]

We have free will in that we freely choose according to our inclination.

But actually we don't. An alcoholic may have an inclination to keep drinking but certainly doesn't mean he can't rise up above it and ask for help. So you tell me why a sinner can't do the same that is rise up against his inclination and ask for God's impartation of LIFE.

 

[civic]

But actually we don't. An alcoholic may have an inclination to keep drinking but certainly doesn't mean he can't rise up above it and ask for help. So you tell me why a sinner can't do the same that is rise up against his inclination and ask for God's impartation of LIFE.

Yes depraved unregenerate alcoholic sinners can decide by their own free will to choose to stop drinking with no outside force , coercion etc.

 

[Biblelesson]

@Rockson @civic

No disrespect. But alcoholism is not something can quit that easily. First of all if you're not in Medical detox program It can definitely end your life. It's harder coming off of alcohol than heroin. Also there has to be some sort of an intervention or something major has to happen in your life before you even think about quitting. Then there's the relapse rate. So yes you can rise above it and ask for help. How successful you'll be... well who knows.

Being Predestined unto Salvation Is a completely different matter. Remember everyone who is saved was chosen by God before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:4–6
For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he[b] predestined us for adoption to sonship[c] through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.

2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth

With Perseverance of the Saints in mind there's no need to worry about relapse.

 

[civic]

@Rockson @civic

No disrespect. But alcoholism is not something can quit that easily. First of all if you're not in Medical detox program It can definitely end your life. It's harder coming off of alcohol than heroin. Also there has to be some sort of an intervention or something major has to happen in your life before you even think about quitting. Then there's the relapse rate. So yes you can rise above it and ask for help. How successful you'll be... well who knows.

Being Predestined unto Salvation Is a completely different matter. Remember everyone who is saved was chosen by God before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:4–6
For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he[b] predestined us for adoption to sonship[c] through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.

2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth

With Perseverance of the Saints in mind there's no need to worry about relapse.

My last post refutes the Calvinist claims claims one can only do there greatest desire

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

But actually we don't. An alcoholic may have an inclination to keep drinking but certainly doesn't mean he can't rise up above it and ask for help. So you tell me why a sinner can't do the same that is rise up against his inclination and ask for God's impartation of LIFE.

An alcoholic is still an alcoholic after he quits drinking. That's why you still announce yourself as an alcoholic at AA.

It's a terrible analogy, anyway. An alcoholic may do terrible things for which he feels guilty. But someone in bondage to sin, without intervention from God, does not see himself as a reprobate. The law gave commands that nobody can do on their own steam. It exposes their fallen condition.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

My last post refutes the Calvinist claims claims one can only do there greatest desire

They only choose according to their strongest inclination at the time.

 

[civic]

They only choose according to their strongest inclination at the time.

Which they freely choose

 

[Rockson]

@Rockson @civic

No disrespect.

None taken.

But alcoholism is not something can quit that easily.

And I'm not saying one can give up their sin easily. My point is one can at least agree with the Creator that they need help or better put agreeing with God that they need to be born again without it said he can't do that nor would want to be.

 

[Rockson]

An alcoholic is still an alcoholic after he quits drinking.

Actually there's no scientific law which demands and insists one must think of it that way. Yes I know AA members (many of them have been my friends) will say that. None the less many give up drinking without thinking they're an alcoholic for life. They may not drink again but they don't think of themselves as an alcoholic. They consider they've been free from it for years.

But no need for us to lock horns about that. We can bring up all sorts of other examples. Overeating, gluttony etc, One can at least say and acknowledge they need help from an outside force, person or group without somebody saying they don't have the ability to do that.

But someone in bondage to sin, without intervention from God, does not see himself as a reprobate.

Even if your argument is God causes them to see it that certainly DOES NOT demonstrate they have to be regenerated to know that. The very preaching of the gospel reveals that to all if they'll choose to accept the truth.

 

[civic]

An alcoholic is still an alcoholic after he quits drinking. That's why you still announce yourself as an alcoholic at AA.

It's a terrible analogy, anyway. An alcoholic may do terrible things for which he feels guilty. But someone in bondage to sin, without intervention from God, does not see himself as a reprobate. The law gave commands that nobody can do on their own steam. It exposes their fallen condition.

Wrong just like a murderer who stops killing people is no longer a murderer and a fornicator is no longer one when they stop and a homosexual is no longer one when they stop.

Nice try though

 

[TomL]

@Rockson @civic

No disrespect. But alcoholism is not something can quit that easily. First of all if you're not in Medical detox program It can definitely end your life. It's harder coming off of alcohol than heroin. Also there has to be some sort of an intervention or something major has to happen in your life before you even think about quitting. Then there's the relapse rate. So yes you can rise above it and ask for help. How successful you'll be... well who knows.

Being Predestined unto Salvation Is a completely different matter. Remember everyone who is saved was chosen by God before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:4–6
For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he[b] predestined us for adoption to sonship[c] through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.

2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth

With Perseverance of the Saints in mind there's no need to worry about relapse.

There is no unconditional predestination to salvation

Eph 1:4 concerns believers, those in Christ, being chosen to be holy and blameless before God.

2Thessalonians concerns God's choice to save gentiles in the same manner he chose to save Jews - through faith and the sanctification of the Spirit