FreeInChrist
Active Member
That makes perfect sense
Thomas... My Lord and my God
- Thread starter Peterlag
- Start date
Not my mind
John 1:1 (NASB 95) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Maybe you should actually consider scripture.
amazing grace
Active Member
Let's see - Paul was a human being yet the phrase 'according to the flesh' was used in reference of him ......
For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh...... showing his lineage as an Israelite.
And, also in the same sense, Jesus being a human being the phrase 'according to the flesh' was used in reference of him
.... To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ. Who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen. BOTH HUMAN BEINGS - BOTH ACCORDING TO THE FLESH belonged to the lineage of Israelite.
Why would it be unnecessarily redundant to say it of Jesus if he was human yet not redundant to say it of Paul since he is a human? I don't get your logic.
civic
Active Member
don't you know that the Word was God really means the word in not God lol.
who would of thunk it .............................
I mean don't you know when the bible says Jesus created everything it really means He created nothing.
When the Apostles called Jesus God it really meant Jesus is not God
When the Bible say on many occasions Jesus was worhipped it really means they did not worship Him.
Its like backwards masking the bible, topsy turvy theology, up is down , right is wrong, light is darkness, obedience means to sin, eternal means having a beginning, and the list goes on and on
its crazy how some can twist the bible into such a PRETZEL
Peterlag
Active Member
The word "Word" is the Greek word logos. Not Jesus.
civic
Active Member
Yet Jesus is called the Word (logos ) in Revelation and in Johns epistle.
I'm sure you can do better than this watson
True, but did you read the context and discover the word became flesh. And the becoming flesh took place far after his existence
and you are still defective, making God a non personal thing.
John 1:1 (NASB 95) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Maybe you should actually consider scripture.
Let's see
The Word was God
God is masculine
But You want to make a word ("word") which is masculine in modern lexicography a neuter word to be God
Thus you are indeed speaking of a neuter God
Maybe you should stop substituting your theology for exegesis.
LOL I guess it is just beyond me.
civic
Active Member
Me too
Peterlag
Active Member
Let me correct your statement below since you are saying it's what I am saying...
But You want to make a word ("word") which is masculine in modern lexicography a neuter word to be the Greek word logos. Not God
Thus you are indeed speaking of a neuter logos. Not God
I can share some bible resources. It sounds like you those desperately.
You might notice that no phrase about God followers right after Paul having kinsmen of same ancestry. Also, Paul is talking to gentiles so he is showing his relationship with the unsaved Jews -- it is fleshly brothers contrasted to those who follow Christ. pray your interpretation methods improve.
Just remember that Paul is never speaking of himself as "God over all." That point remains only for Jesus.
Um Logos is masculine see the following
(Greek NT BYZ+) ενG1722 PREP αρχηG746 N-DSF ηνG1510 V-IAI-3S οG3588 T-NSM λογοςG3056 N-NSM καιG2532 CONJ οG3588 T-NSM λογοςG3056 N-NSM ηνG1510 V-IAI-3S προςG4314 PREP τονG3588 T-ASM θεονG2316 N-ASM καιG2532 CONJ θεοςG2316 N-NSM ηνG1510 V-IAI-3S οG3588 T-NSM λογοςG3056 N-NSM
Theos θεος
N-NSM
Nominative simplex masculine noun
Logos λογος is also masculine.
N-NSM
(Greek NT TR+) ενG1722 PREP αρχηG746 N-DSF ηνG1510 V-IAI-3S οG3588 T-NSM λογοςG3056 N-NSM καιG2532 CONJ οG3588 T-NSM λογοςG3056 N-NSM ηνG1510 V-IAI-3S προςG4314 PREP τονG3588 T-ASM θεονG2316 N-ASM καιG2532 CONJ θεοςG2316 N-NSM ηνG1510 V-IAI-3S οG3588 T-NSM λογοςG3056 N-NSM
(Greek NT WH+) ενG1722 PREP αρχηG746 N-DSF ηνG1510 V-IAI-3S οG3588 T-NSM λογοςG3056 N-NSM καιG2532 CONJ οG3588 T-NSM λογοςG3056 N-NSM ηνG1510 V-IAI-3S προςG4314 PREP τονG3588 T-ASM θεονG2316 N-ASM καιG2532 CONJ θεοςG2316 N-NSM ηνG1510 V-IAI-3S οG3588 T-NSM λογοςG3056 N-NSM
God is masculine in all translations.
A masculine logos matches a masculine God
Your interpretation is a mismatch which was pointed out previously
P.S. And in no way did I speak of a neuter Logos
Last edited:
It sounds like you have to reject the Bible to hold his view.
Posted below: what the Bible states, followed by what he claims.
I mean, don't you know when the Bible says Jesus created everything, it really means He created nothing.
When the Apostles called Jesus God, it really meant Jesus is not God
When the Bible says on many occasions Jesus was worshipped, it really means they did not worship Him.
amazing grace
Active Member
Happy Birthday Jesus! Thank you God for your wonderful gift to the world ---
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. [Luke 2:11]
amazing grace
Active Member
If the verse wasn't ambiguous you may have a point. The interpretation relies upon the placement of punctuation therefore the interpretation lies within one's own bias.
Paul is never speaking of Jesus as 'God over all' either. Jesus is over all God blessed forever. Over All, 'according to the flesh', Jesus is God blessed forever . . . .
ὧν - of whom, whose οἱ πατέρες - the fathers καὶ - and ἐξ ὧν - from whom ὁ Χριστὸς - the Christ τὸ κατὰ σάρκα - according to the flesh ὁ ὢν - the one being/who is ἐπὶ πάντων - over all/above all θεὸς - God εὐλογητὸς - blessed
εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας - unto the ages/forever ἀμήν - Amen
Textus Receptus --- of whom the fathers and from whom the Christ according to the flesh' the one being over all God blessed unto the ages -- Amen.
Merry Christmas!
Peterlag
Active Member
The word "logos" (Word) denotes (I) "the expression of thought" as embodying a conception or idea. λόγος "logos" is something said (including the thought). So the word "logos" means an expression of thought. It makes perfect sense if we use this understanding everywhere the word "logos" is used. So in John 1:1 the Word is not Jesus, but rather it became flesh, which is God's expression of thought or plan that became flesh with the coming of Jesus Christ.
civic
Active Member
The Word is Jesus as the Apostle John makes known in his epistle and revelation and John’s prologue. The Word is a person who is personal and is before all things and created all things. God is the creator not an imperial thought or idea.
Next fallacy
hope this helps !!!
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Has it never occurred to you that your description of what the Logos is or does proved what we haave been saying when we day the Logos/Word is separate from God the Father.
He was in the beginning and it is not that the Father is silent while the Son talks instead of Him, but that God speaks as the Word, and that Word is the Son.
IOW... and I hope I get done before family gets herer....
Go back to Genesis and you will see the start of a statement repeatedly. “And God said …”
John interprets that act of speaking:
“In the beginning was the Word (Logos)… All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.” (John 1:1–3)
Niow we also have Paul agreeing....
“For by Him all things were created… all things were created through Him and for Him.” (Col 1:16)
And number 3 shores it up.....
“Through whom also He made the ages.” (Heb 1:2)
IOW .... The Father is the source, The Son (Logos) is the agent, and The Spirit is the life-giver (Gen 1:2; Ps 33:6).
This fits how God later reveals Himself.
Speaks God’s words (John 12:49–50), Reveals the Father (John 1:18), Is called God’s final speech (Heb 1:1–2)
Creation by the Word and revelation by the Word are part of the same pattern.
If you don't understand this it is simply because you do not want to.
Last edited:
Logos is used metaleptically in a way that bridges Philo's approach as well the Greek philosophy sans the misconceptions of those groups. As such, the logos is made flesh, from unseen to seen, in Christ Jesus. This is a continuity of existence. Even though used metaleptically, Jesus also is named Word of God.
I honestly have not seen enough of a logical argument against the Trinitarian understanding of God to dissuade from orthodox Christianity.
