Thomas... My Lord and my God

[praise_yeshua]

NOT ONCE did Luke record that Paul taught "Jesus is God".
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What letters or manuscripts did Luke write?

 

[Peterlag]

What scripture states is

Philippians 2:6–8 (LEB) — 6 who, existing in the form of God, did not consider being equal with God something to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself by taking the form of a slave, by becoming in the likeness of people. And being found in appearance like a man, 8 he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, that is, death on a cross.

he emptied himself by what was bolded above

What he is

John 1:1 (LEB) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 20:28 (NASB 95) — 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
Titus 2:13 (NASB 95) — 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,
2 Peter 1:1 (NASB 95) — 1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
1 John 5:20 (NASB 95) — 20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
Hebrews 1:8 (NASB 95) — 8 But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.
Isaiah 9:6 (NASB 95) — 6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.


The first word which we must carefully study is “form.” The Greek word has no reference to the shape of any physical object. It was a Greek philosophical term. Vincent has an excellent note on the word. In discussing it, he has among other things, the following to say: “We must here dismiss from our minds the idea of shape. The word is used in its philosophical sense to denote that expression of being which carries in itself the distinctive nature and character of the being to whom it pertains, and is thus permanently identified with that nature and character … As applied to God, the word is intended to describe that mode in which the essential being of God expresses itself1

1 Kenneth S. Wuest, Wuest’s Word Studies from the Greek New Testament: For the English Reader (vol. 5; Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1997), 62.


The text begins with an affirmation that the Lord Jesus initially was en morphe theou hyperchon (“in the form/nature of God existing”) and that he then emptied himself by taking on morphen doulou (“form/nature of a slave”) by being born as a man.

It is clear that this passage is an explicit and emphatic witness to Jesus’ prehuman existence, and not only to his preexistence but to his having existed as God in heaven before he became man. After all, no one disputes the fact that to exist in the form of a servant is to be a servant, is to have the very nature of a servant. In a similar manner, to exist in God’s form is to have the very nature of God, is to exist as God.

To put this in simpler terms, if one denies that Christ was truly God one must also deny that he was truly a servant. There is simply no way around this point. Sam Shamoun

Carmen Christi: Worshiping Christ as God


Gordon D. Fee explains why morphe (“form”) communicates Paul’s point much better than any other Greek word such as physis (“nature” – cf. Galatians 4:8):

“… His [Paul] urgency is to say something about Christ’s ‘mindset,’ first as God and second as man. But in the transition from Christ’s ‘being God’ to his ‘becoming human,’ Paul expresses by way of metaphor the essential quality of humanity: he ‘took’ on the ‘form of a slave.’ Morphe was precisely the right word for this dual usage, to characterize both the reality (his being God) and the metaphor (his taking on the role of a slave), since it denotes ‘form’ or ‘shape’ not in terms of the external features by which something is recognized, but of those characteristics and qualities that are essential to it. Hence it means that which truly characterizes a given reality.” (Fee, The New International Commentary on the New Testament – Paul’s Letter to the Philippians [William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, Grand Rapids, MI 1995], p. 204; underline emphasis ours)

μορφή -ῆς, ἡ; (morphē), n. form. Hebrew equivalent: תְּמוּנָה (1).
Noun Usage
1. form (essence)† — the expression of something (such as a visual, spatial, or preternatural expression) that reflects or manifests fully and truly (and permanently) the essence of what something is. Related Topics: Nature; Form.
Php 2:6 ἐν μορφῇ θεοῦ
Php 2:7 ἐκένωσεν μορφὴν δούλου
2. form (manifestation)† — a particular mode in which something is existing. Related Topic: Form.
Mk 16:12 ἐν ἑτέρᾳ μορφῇ πορευομένοις
Septuagint References
• Job 4:16; Wis 18:1; Tob 1:13; Is 44:13; Da 3:19; 4 Mac 15:4
Rick Brannan, ed., Lexham Research Lexicon of the Greek New Testament (Lexham Research Lexicons; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2020).


thus your claim



is a joke

Colossians 2:9 (NASB 95) — 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

The Trinity does not come from Scripture. It comes from the doctrine of devils that the churches teach (and in most cases it's the first thing they teach) and then they begin to look for Scripture that supports such a concept. They do this by taking the verses out of context, or not understanding how the words were used in the culture they were written in, or from a bad translation.

 

[synergy]

You mean, the word "alone" isn't printed in your Bible.

I didn't mean that at all. Again, what I'm saying is that nowhere does the Bible say that the Father is alone. It is God who is alone as the only true God. Do you understand the difference? That's Monotheism which Trinitarianism supports, and unitarianism abhors.

If you do in fact support John 17:3 exactly the way it is written then you will realize that verse promotes Monotheism, which Trinitarianism supports.

Nowhere does the Bible say that the Father alone is the only true God. Keep supporting John 17:3 as it is written and you'll be a Trinitarian sooner than you think.

 

[TomL]

The Trinity does not come from Scripture. It comes from the doctrine of devils that the churches teach (and in most cases it's the first thing they teach) and then they begin to look for Scripture that supports such a concept. They do this by taking the verses out of context, or not understanding how the words were used in the culture they were written in, or from a bad translation.

Sorry it is all scripture

In the New Testament, we read Jesus is God.

In the Old Testament, we read the messenger of the Lord (Yahweh) is God (Yahweh). God/Yahweh. We read of a first and third person God/Yahweh Wed read of he who is I am he. Hie who spread out the heaven

Isaiah 48:12–16 (NASB 95) — 12 “Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called; I am He, I am the first, I am also the last. 13 “Surely My hand founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens; When I call to them, they stand together. 14 “Assemble, all of you, and listen! Who among them has declared these things? The LORD loves him; he will carry out His good pleasure on Babylon, And His arm will be against the Chaldeans. 15 “I, even I, have spoken; indeed I have called him, I have brought him, and He will make his ways successful. 16 “Come near to Me, listen to this: From the first I have not spoken in secret, From the time it took place, I was there. And now the Lord GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit.”


Exodus 3:2–15 (KJV 1900) — 2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God. 7 And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; 8 And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites. 9 Now therefore, behold, the cry of the children of Israel is come unto me: and I have also seen the oppression wherewith the Egyptians oppress them. 10 Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt. 11 And Moses said unto God, Who am I, that I should go unto Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt? 12 And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain. 13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

The Messenger (angel) of Yahweh is called God, the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, Elohim, Yahweh
Exo19:19 When the sound of the trumpet grew louder and louder, Moses spoke and God answered him with thunder. 20 The Lord came down on Mount Sinai, to the top of the mountain; and the Lord called Moses to the top of the mountain, and Moses went up. 21 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, “Go down, warn the people, so that they do not break through to the Lord to gaze, and many of them perish. 22 Also let the priests who come near to the Lord consecrate themselves, or else the Lord will break out against them.” 23 Moses said to the Lord, “The people cannot come up to Mount Sinai, for You warned us, saying, ‘Set bounds about the mountain and consecrate it.’ ” 24 Then the Lord said to him, “Go down and come up again, you and Aaron with you; but do not let the priests and the people break through to come up to the Lord, or He will break forth upon them.” 25 So Moses went down to the people and told them.

Two mentions of YHWH the Lord

 

[Runningman]

I didn't mean that at all. Again, what I'm saying is that nowhere does the Bible say that the Father is alone. It is God who is alone as the only true God. Do you understand the difference? That's Monotheism which Trinitarianism supports, and unitarianism abhors.

If you do in fact support John 17:3 exactly the way it is written then you will realize that verse promotes Monotheism, which Trinitarianism supports.

Nowhere does the Bible say that the Father alone is the only true God. Keep supporting John 17:3 as it is written and you'll be a Trinitarian sooner than you think.

John 17:3 explicitly states the Father is alone the true God. Why do we keep coming back to the definition of monos? Since you seem to be going in circles at this point, care to tell me what every lexicon and concordance says monos means? This should be good. I am sure you will exclude the part about it explicitly referring to being alone.

 

[praise_yeshua]

John 17:3 explicitly states the Father is alone the true God. Why do we keep coming back to the definition of monos? Since you seem to be going in circles at this point, care to tell me what every lexicon and concordance says monos means? This should be good. I am sure you will exclude the part about it explicitly referring to being alone.

God asked Job where he was in creation. Were you there?

 

[TomL]

John 17:3 explicitly states the Father is alone the true God. Why do we keep coming back to the definition of monos? Since you seem to be going in circles at this point, care to tell me what every lexicon and concordance says monos means? This should be good. I am sure you will exclude the part about it explicitly referring to being alone.

And Jesus is the only lord and master.

BTW As the angel of the lord he is Yahweh as well

Jeremiah 23:5-6—“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.”

Exodus 3:2–15 (KJV 1900) — 2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God. 7 And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; 8 And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites. 9 Now therefore, behold, the cry of the children of Israel is come unto me: and I have also seen the oppression wherewith the Egyptians oppress them. 10 Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt. 11 And Moses said unto God, Who am I, that I should go unto Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt? 12 And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain. 13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

The Messenger (angel) of Yahweh is called God, the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, Elohim, Yahweh

 

[Peterlag]

Sorry it is all scripture

In the New Testament, we read Jesus is God.

In the Old Testament, we read the messenger of the Lord (Yahweh) is God (Yahweh). God/Yahweh. We read of a first and third person God/Yahweh Wed read of he who is I am he. Hie who spread out the heaven

Isaiah 48:12–16 (NASB 95) — 12 “Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called; I am He, I am the first, I am also the last. 13 “Surely My hand founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens; When I call to them, they stand together. 14 “Assemble, all of you, and listen! Who among them has declared these things? The LORD loves him; he will carry out His good pleasure on Babylon, And His arm will be against the Chaldeans. 15 “I, even I, have spoken; indeed I have called him, I have brought him, and He will make his ways successful. 16 “Come near to Me, listen to this: From the first I have not spoken in secret, From the time it took place, I was there. And now the Lord GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit.”


Exodus 3:2–15 (KJV 1900) — 2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God. 7 And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; 8 And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites. 9 Now therefore, behold, the cry of the children of Israel is come unto me: and I have also seen the oppression wherewith the Egyptians oppress them. 10 Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt. 11 And Moses said unto God, Who am I, that I should go unto Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt? 12 And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain. 13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

The Messenger (angel) of Yahweh is called God, the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, Elohim, Yahweh
Exo19:19 When the sound of the trumpet grew louder and louder, Moses spoke and God answered him with thunder. 20 The Lord came down on Mount Sinai, to the top of the mountain; and the Lord called Moses to the top of the mountain, and Moses went up. 21 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, “Go down, warn the people, so that they do not break through to the Lord to gaze, and many of them perish. 22 Also let the priests who come near to the Lord consecrate themselves, or else the Lord will break out against them.” 23 Moses said to the Lord, “The people cannot come up to Mount Sinai, for You warned us, saying, ‘Set bounds about the mountain and consecrate it.’ ” 24 Then the Lord said to him, “Go down and come up again, you and Aaron with you; but do not let the priests and the people break through to come up to the Lord, or He will break forth upon them.” 25 So Moses went down to the people and told them.

Two mentions of YHWH the Lord

Isaiah 48:12–16 is referring to God. Not Jesus.

“Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called; I am He, I am the first, I am also the last. 13 “Surely My hand founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens; When I call to them, they stand together.

 

[synergy]

John 17:3 explicitly states the Father is alone the true God. Why do we keep coming back to the definition of monos? Since you seem to be going in circles at this point, care to tell me what every lexicon and concordance says monos means? This should be good. I am sure you will exclude the part about it explicitly referring to being alone.

John 17:3 applies "only", monos, or even alone only to God, not to the Father. Give me even one verse that says that the Father only (or alone) is the only true God. Until then, toodles........

 

[amazing grace]

John 17:3 applies "only", monos, or even alone only to God, not to the Father. Give me even one verse that says that the Father only (or alone) is the only true God. Until then, toodles........

And this is eternal life, that they know you (Father), the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. ..... this verse does reference the Father as the only (monos) true God......

 

[TomL]

Isaiah 48:12–16 is referring to God. Not Jesus.

“Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called; I am He, I am the first, I am also the last. 13 “Surely My hand founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens; When I call to them, they stand together.

You better read the whole

Isaiah 48:12–16 (NASB95) — 12 “Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called; I am He, I am the first, I am also the last. 13 “Surely My hand founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens; When I call to them, they stand together. 14 “Assemble, all of you, and listen! Who among them has declared these things? The LORD loves him; he will carry out His good pleasure on Babylon, And His arm will be against the Chaldeans. 15 “I, even I, have spoken; indeed I have called him, I have brought him, and He will make his ways successful. 16 “Come near to Me, listen to this: From the first I have not spoken in secret, From the time it took place, I was there. And now the Lord GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit.”
So according to your view who is the lord God who has sent him and his Spirit
The rest you fail to address
Exodus 3:2–15 (KJV 1900) — 2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God. 7 And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; 8 And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites. 9 Now therefore, behold, the cry of the children of Israel is come unto me: and I have also seen the oppression wherewith the Egyptians oppress them. 10 Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt. 11 And Moses said unto God, Who am I, that I should go unto Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt? 12 And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain. 13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

The Messenger (angel) of Yahweh is called God, the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, Elohim, Yahweh

Exo19:19 When the sound of the trumpet grew louder and louder, Moses spoke and God answered him with thunder. 20 The Lord came down on Mount Sinai, to the top of the mountain; and the Lord called Moses to the top of the mountain, and Moses went up. 21 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, “Go down, warn the people, so that they do not break through to the Lord to gaze, and many of them perish. 22 Also let the priests who come near to the Lord consecrate themselves, or else the Lord will break out against them.” 23 Moses said to the Lord, “The people cannot come up to Mount Sinai, for You warned us, saying, ‘Set bounds about the mountain and consecrate it.’ ” 24 Then the Lord said to him, “Go down and come up again, you and Aaron with you; but do not let the priests and the people break through to come up to the Lord, or He will break forth upon them.” 25 So Moses went down to the people and told them.

Two mentions of YHWH the Lord

 

[Runningman]

God asked Job where he was in creation. Were you there?

No other God aside from the Father.

 

[Runningman]

John 17:3 applies "only", monos, or even alone only to God, not to the Father. Give me even one verse that says that the Father only (or alone) is the only true God. Until then, toodles........

John 17:1-3 explicitly states the Father is alone or the only true God. If you don't believe it or understand it just study it more. It's very plain and not complex at all.

 

[Peterlag]

Terms found nowhere in Scripture...

• Deity
• Co-equal
• Co-eternal
• Incarnated
• Eternal son
• Infinite son
• God the son
• One substance
• Persons of God
• God became man
• Eternally begotten
• Pre-existent Christ
• God the Holy Spirit
• Pre-incarnate Christ
• Three persons, three in one
• Trinity, Triune God, Tri-unity
• Two nature's, Hypostatic union

Or any combination of 1st person, 2nd person, 3rd person.

 

[mikesw]

Terms found nowhere in Scripture...

• Deity
• Co-equal
• Co-eternal
• Incarnated
• Eternal son
• Infinite son
• God the son
• One substance
• Persons of God
• God became man
• Eternally begotten
• Pre-existent Christ
• God the Holy Spirit
• Pre-incarnate Christ
• Three persons, three in one
• Trinity, Triune God, Tri-unity
• Two nature's, Hypostatic union

Or any combination of 1st person, 2nd person, 3rd person.

I'm sorry that you get lost simply because these phrases are not shared the way you would need.

All we need is John 1:1-18 and stuff like John 17:5 to show the pre-existing One that we know as Jesus. Keep posting your confusion and we can keep clarifying your errors.

 

[Peterlag]

I'm sorry that you get lost simply because these phrases are not shared the way you would need.

All we need is John 1:1-18 and stuff like John 17:5 to show the pre-existing One that we know as Jesus. Keep posting your confusion and we can keep clarifying your errors.

It's not that these phrases are not shared the way I would need. It's that they are not shared at all in the Bible.

Terms found nowhere in Scripture...

• Deity
• Co-equal
• Co-eternal
• Incarnated
• Eternal son
• Infinite son
• God the son
• One substance
• Persons of God
• God became man
• Eternally begotten
• Pre-existent Christ
• God the Holy Spirit
• Pre-incarnate Christ
• Three persons, three in one
• Trinity, Triune God, Tri-unity
• Two nature's, Hypostatic union

Or any combination of 1st person, 2nd person, 3rd person.

 

[mikesw]

It's not that these phrases are not shared the way I would need. It's that they are not shared at all in the Bible.

Terms found nowhere in Scripture...

• Deity
• Co-equal
• Co-eternal
• Incarnated
• Eternal son
• Infinite son
• God the son
• One substance
• Persons of God
• God became man
• Eternally begotten
• Pre-existent Christ
• God the Holy Spirit
• Pre-incarnate Christ
• Three persons, three in one
• Trinity, Triune God, Tri-unity
• Two nature's, Hypostatic union

Or any combination of 1st person, 2nd person, 3rd person.

I understand that words not in the Unitarian Pocket Dictionary are hard for you to understand. I assume you are not making an argument because there is no argument to deny Jesus is God. You just have words you do not like. That is one of the failings of the hyperliteralist unitarians. And I have been so nice to omit the T word so we just consider the passages of Jesus as God so that would be easier for you to grasp.

 

[TomL]

John 17:1-3 explicitly states the Father is alone or the only true God. If you don't believe it or understand it just study it more. It's very plain and not complex at all.

Follow your own advise

Exodus 3:2–15 (KJV 1900) — 2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God. 7 And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; 8 And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites. 9 Now therefore, behold, the cry of the children of Israel is come unto me: and I have also seen the oppression wherewith the Egyptians oppress them. 10 Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt. 11 And Moses said unto God, Who am I, that I should go unto Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt? 12 And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain. 13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

The Messenger (angel) of Yahweh is called God, the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, Elohim, Yahweh

That Yahweh was sent by Yahweh

Genesis 22:15–18 (NASB95) — 15 Then the angel of the LORD called to Abraham a second time from heaven, 16 and said, “By Myself I have sworn, declares the LORD, because you have done this thing and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies. 18 “In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.”

Genesis 31:11–13 (NASB95) — 11 “Then the angel of God said to me in the dream, ‘Jacob,’ and I said, ‘Here I am.’ 12 “He said, ‘Lift up now your eyes and see that all the male goats which are mating are striped, speckled, and mottled; for I have seen all that Laban has been doing to you. 13 ‘I am the God of Bethel, where you anointed a pillar, where you made a vow to Me; now arise, leave this land, and return to the land of your birth.’ ”

The angel of God declared himself the God of Bethel the God jacob made a vow to having also identified as Yahweh

Genesis 28:18–22 (NASB 95) — 18 So Jacob rose early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put under his head and set it up as a pillar and poured oil on its top. 19 He called the name of that place Bethel; however, previously the name of the city had been Luz. 20 Then Jacob made a vow, saying, “If God will be with me and will keep me on this journey that I take, and will give me food to eat and garments to wear, 21 and I return to my father’s house in safety, then the LORD (yahweh) will be my God. 22 This stone, which I have set up as a pillar, will be God’s house, and of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You.”

Yahweh sends Yahweh

Zechariah 2:8–13 (LEB) — 8 For thus said Yahweh of hosts, after glory he sent me against the nations plundering you: Truly, the one touching you is touching the apple of his eye. 9 “Yes, look! I am going to wave my hand against them, and they will become plunder for their servants, and you will know that Yahweh of hosts has sent me. 10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion, for look, I am coming and I will dwell in your midst,” declares Yahweh. 11 “Many nations will join themselves to Yahweh on that day, and they will be my people, and I will dwell in your midst. And you will know that Yahweh of hosts has sent me to you. 12 And Yahweh will inherit Judah as his portion in the holy land, and he will again choose Jerusalem. 13 Be silent, all people, before Yahweh, for he is roused from his holy dwelling.”

Yahweh speaks of Yahweh in the 3rd person



Exodus 19:20–25 (LEB) — 20 And Yahweh went down on Mount Sinai, to the top of the mountain, and Yahweh called Moses to the top of the mountain, and Moses went up. 21 And Yahweh said to Moses, “Go down, warn the people, lest they break through to Yahweh to see and many from them fall. 22 And even the priests who come near Yahweh must consecrate themselves, lest Yahweh break out against them.” 23 And Moses said to Yahweh, “The people are not able to go up to Mount Sinai, because you yourself warned us, saying, ‘Set limits around the mountain and consecrate it.’ ” 24 And Yahweh said to him, “Go, go down, and come up, you and Aaron with you and the priests, but the people must not break through to go up to Yahweh, lest he break out against them.” 25 And Moses went down to the people, and he told them.

Genesis 19:24 (UASV) — 24 Then Jehovah rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Jehovah out of heaven,

Jehovah (yahweh) who was on earth rained down fire from Jehovah (yahweh) in heaven

Jehovah God will make the following strong in Jehovah not in himself refering to the Jehovah he was making them strong in as those who walk in his name

Zechariah 10:6–12 (UASV) — 6 “I will strengthen the house of Judah, and I will save the house of Joseph. I will bring them back because I have compassion on them, and they shall be as though I had not rejected them, for I am Jehovah their God and I will answer them. 7 Then Ephraim shall become like a mighty warrior, and their hearts shall rejoice as if from wine. Their sons shall see it and be glad; their heart shall rejoice in Jehovah. 8 “I will whistle for them and gather them in, for I have redeemed them, and they shall be as numerous as they were before. 9 Though I sow them among the nations, yet in far countries they shall remember me, and with their sons they shall live and return. 10 I will bring them back from the land of Egypt, and gather them from Assyria, and I will bring them to the land of Gilead and to Lebanon, until there is no room for them. 11 And he shall pass through the sea of distress and strike down the waves of the sea, and all the depths of the Nile shall dry up. The pride of Assyria shall be brought down, and the scepter of Egypt shall depart. 12 I will make them strong in Jehovah, and they shall walk in his name,” declares Jehovah.
Isaiah 48:12–16 (NASB 95) — 12 “Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called; I am He, I am the first, I am also the last. 13 “Surely My hand founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens; When I call to them, they stand together. 14 “Assemble, all of you, and listen! Who among them has declared these things? The LORD loves him; he will carry out His good pleasure on Babylon, And His arm will be against the Chaldeans. 15 “I, even I, have spoken; indeed I have called him, I have brought him, and He will make his ways successful. 16 “Come near to Me, listen to this: From the first I have not spoken in secret, From the time it took place, I was there. And now the Lord GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit.”

God says “you cannot see my face; for man shall not see me and live” (Ex 33:20), and yet Hagar (Gen 16:13), Jacob (Gn 32:30), and Moses (Ex 33:11) are said to have “seen God face to face” in view of their confrontation with this angel. God promises that his very presence will be among the Israelites, and yet it is the angel who goes with them (Ex 23:23). The commander of the army of God is given reverence equal to God’s (Jos 5:13–6:2). The angel seems to possess the full authority and character of God.

And there is a lot more

 

[synergy]

John 17:1-3 explicitly states the Father is alone or the only true God. If you don't believe it or understand it just study it more. It's very plain and not complex at all.

Again, John 17:3 applies "only", monos, or even alone only to God, not to the Father. You continue to fail in giving me even one verse that explicitly says that the Father only (or alone) is the only true God. As this cannot go on forever, I'll give you one more chance to make good on your Arian heretical beliefs. So hop to it and show us some of that Arian intelligence and critical thinking that @Peterlag gloats so much about

 

[Doug Brents]

Isaiah 48:12–16 is referring to God. Not Jesus.

“Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called; I am He, I am the first, I am also the last. 13 “Surely My hand founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens; When I call to them, they stand together.

That is not entirely accurate. Who does John 1:1 say created all things? Was it not the Logos of God which John 1:14 says became flesh and lived among man (Jesus). Yes, it is God who created all things, and Jesus (the Logos of God) is God.