Thomas... My Lord and my God

[101G]

View attachment 2325

To all, ATTENTION, ATTENTION, the Captain is speaking. when the Lord Jesus in flesh and bone as the diversity of himself, the Spirit. when he said, "I ascend to "MY", "MY", "MY", Father, he is saying I ascend to my "Spirit". is not the Father the Spirit? and when he Jesus in heaven as Spirit, say, my Son on earth, is not Jesus in flesh was the only "BODY" the church on earth?

now MY Father who is Spirit as said, is he Jesus, the the Holy Spirit Father? two scripture, scripture, #1. Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." THERE HE IS.

and just in case if some want to go fleshly .... Scripture, the Holy Spirit who is the Lord Jesus is the Holy Spirit. Scripture #2. Matthew 1:19 "Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily." Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost." now, anyone who conceives a child is called ..... the father of that child, they say my father... right. was not the son of God conceived by the Holy Ghost? yes, so by default the Holy Spirit then is the "Father" of Mary's baby... Hello.

101G.

 

[Peterlag]

To all, ATTENTION, ATTENTION, the Captain is speaking. when the Lord Jesus in flesh and bone as the diversity of himself, the Spirit. when he said, "I ascend to "MY", "MY", "MY", Father, he is saying I ascend to my "Spirit". is not the Father the Spirit? and when he Jesus in heaven as Spirit, say, my Son on earth, is not Jesus in flesh was the only "BODY" the church on earth?

now MY Father who is Spirit as said, is he Jesus, the the Holy Spirit Father? two scripture, scripture, #1. Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." THERE HE IS.

and just in case if some want to go fleshly .... Scripture, the Holy Spirit who is the Lord Jesus is the Holy Spirit. Scripture #2. Matthew 1:19 "Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily." Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost." now, anyone who conceives a child is called ..... the father of that child, they say my father... right. was not the son of God conceived by the Holy Ghost? yes, so by default the Holy Spirit then is the "Father" of Mary's baby... Hello.

101G.

What's your point?

 

[101G]

What's your point?

My point dose not matter, only God's .... and his, God, point is that he, God, is JESUS that came in flesh as a man, his OWN IMAGE.

101G.

 

[Peterlag]

Jesus prayed to God “not my will, but yours, be done” because...

Jesus and God have separate wills (Luke 22:42; John 5:30). They would have one will if Jesus and the Father are the same “one God.” Trinitarian doctrine claims that Luke is referring to the human will of Jesus, and not his divine will, but that is problematic because the Bible never says anything like that or even hints that Jesus had two wills in conflict with each other inside him allowing one to be human and the other to be divine.

The Bible says Jesus is an “heir” of God (Hebrew 1:2), and a “joint-heir” with us (Romans 8:17). But if Christ is a co-eternal “Person” in the “Godhead” then he cannot be an heir “of God” because being God would put him into a position to be a full owner of everything and that would mean there would be nothing he could “inherit” which is why Jesus cannot be God and an heir of God at the same time. The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the “image of God” Colossians 1:15; 2 Corinthians 4:4). If Christ is the image of God, then he cannot be God because a person cannot be himself and an image of himself at the same time. Jesus can be called the “image” of God because he always did the will of God, and because he was the image of God is why he could say you had seen the Father if you had seen him.

Ephesians 4:4-6 says there is one God and one Lord and one spirit. This verse teaches exactly what the Jews expected based on the Old Testament and what Jesus, Peter, Paul, and others taught: that there was one God, one Lord, and one spirit of God. 1Corinthians 8:6 says “for us there is one God, the Father… and one Lord, Jesus Christ.” This simple and straight forward language elucidates that the Father is God and the Son is “Lord” making a clear differentiation between the two.

 

[Runningman]

Jesus prayed to God “not my will, but yours, be done” because...

Jesus and God have separate wills (Luke 22:42; John 5:30). They would have one will if Jesus and the Father are the same “one God.” Trinitarian doctrine claims that Luke is referring to the human will of Jesus, and not his divine will, but that is problematic because the Bible never says anything like that or even hints that Jesus had two wills in conflict with each other inside him allowing one to be human and the other to be divine.

The Bible says Jesus is an “heir” of God (Hebrew 1:2), and a “joint-heir” with us (Romans 8:17). But if Christ is a co-eternal “Person” in the “Godhead” then he cannot be an heir “of God” because being God would put him into a position to be a full owner of everything and that would mean there would be nothing he could “inherit” which is why Jesus cannot be God and an heir of God at the same time. The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the “image of God” Colossians 1:15; 2 Corinthians 4:4). If Christ is the image of God, then he cannot be God because a person cannot be himself and an image of himself at the same time. Jesus can be called the “image” of God because he always did the will of God, and because he was the image of God is why he could say you had seen the Father if you had seen him.

Ephesians 4:4-6 says there is one God and one Lord and one spirit. This verse teaches exactly what the Jews expected based on the Old Testament and what Jesus, Peter, Paul, and others taught: that there was one God, one Lord, and one spirit of God. 1Corinthians 8:6 says “for us there is one God, the Father… and one Lord, Jesus Christ.” This simple and straight forward language elucidates that the Father is God and the Son is “Lord” making a clear differentiation between the two.

Beautiful. How about verse that says there is one God and one mediator between God and man, the man Jesus Christ? Can you break down for Trinitarians as to why that means Jesus can't be God?

 

[Peterlag]

Beautiful. How about verse that says there is one God and one mediator between God and man, the man Jesus Christ? Can you break down for Trinitarians as to why that means Jesus can't be God?

1 Timothy 2:5 says that it's the man Jesus, who was the mediator between God andmen. “For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” This verse calls Jesus Christ a “man” even after his resurrection. Trinitarian doctrine tries to explain the verses that say Jesus was a man by saying that he was a man, but he was also 100% God at the same time. But there are problems with that such as there is no single verse that says Jesus was both God and man.

 

[Runningman]

1 Timothy 2:5 says that it's the man Jesus, who was the mediator between God andmen. “For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” This verse calls Jesus Christ a “man” even after his resurrection. Trinitarian doctrine tries to explain the verses that say Jesus was a man by saying that he was a man, but he was also 100% God at the same time. But there are problems with that such as there is no single verse that says Jesus was both God and man.

True. And I am curious what they believe it is that makes Jesus the same as God. What if they say the divine nature?

 

[Peterlag]

True. And I am curious what they believe it is that makes Jesus the same as God. What if they say the divine nature?

I got into the Word with a guy when I was younger and to this day he says if you read the Bible just the way it is written that you will not see a trinity. He like you who has also mentioned that you need to be educated into it and then you read the Bible looking for that education. My friend also believes the devil is involved in blinding their minds.

 

[Runningman]

I got into the Word with a guy when I was younger and to this day he says if you read the Bible just the way it is written that you will not see a trinity. He like you who has also mentioned that you need to be educated into it and then you read the Bible looking for that education. My friend also believes the devil is involved in blinding their minds.

Most of them have been deceived by their leaders, not just a little bit, but probably for decades. They're invested at this point. Someone coming along on the Internet and showing them what the Bible says when they think they already know what the Bible says probably isn't going to sit too well with most of them.

 

[Peterlag]

We cannot approach the Bible with wisdom and “reason together” if we must invent and use non-biblical phrases to support our theology. The Bible calls Jesus the “Son” of God for the simple reason that he had a beginning. Jesus had been part of God’s plan since the foundation of the world, but he began his actual life when God “fathered” him and Mary conceived him in her womb. There are many verses where Jesus and God are portrayed as two separate beings and there are too many examples to list, but just to mention a few we can look at when Jesus told the rich young ruler that he was not good, but “God” was good. Also Jesus grew in favor with “God” and with men, and he told his disciples “Believe in God; believe also in me."

I find it interesting that the Church Epistles were authored by both God and Christ and we see this in 1 Corinthians 1:3 that says “Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” There's a lot of Scripture that shows Jesus to be separate and distinct from “God” which is what the people of the time believed and expected. TheTrinitarian explanation of these verses is that Jesus is God and so “God” means “the Father” when Jesus speaks of himself and “God.” But the Bible never says that. It's only because Trinitarian doctrine asserts that Jesus is God that the assumption is made that “God” means “the Father” when Jesus and God appear together.

 

[mikesw]

We cannot approach the Bible with wisdom and “reason together” if we must invent and use non-biblical phrases to support our theology. The Bible calls Jesus the “Son” of God for the simple reason that he had a beginning. Jesus had been part of God’s plan since the foundation of the world, but he began his actual life when God “fathered” him and Mary conceived him in her womb. There are many verses where Jesus and God are portrayed as two separate beings and there are too many examples to list, but just to mention a few we can look at when Jesus told the rich young ruler that he was not good, but “God” was good. Also Jesus grew in favor with “God” and with men, and he told his disciples “Believe in God; believe also in me."

I find it interesting that the Church Epistles were authored by both God and Christ and we see this in 1 Corinthians 1:3 that says “Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” There's a lot of Scripture that shows Jesus to be separate and distinct from “God” which is what the people of the time believed and expected. TheTrinitarian explanation of these verses is that Jesus is God and so “God” means “the Father” when Jesus speaks of himself and “God.” But the Bible never says that. It's only because Trinitarian doctrine asserts that Jesus is God that the assumption is made that “God” means “the Father” when Jesus and God appear together.

We cannot approach the Bible with wisdom and “reason together” if we must use language controlled by the unitarian heresy.
The unitarians deny the pre-existence of Christ Jesus and deny the verses that speak of his divinity. It is the ambiguity of Jesus both as divine and human that creates the descriptions of God in triune form. If we hide those, the unitarian view almost makes a tiny bit of sense.

 

[mikesw]

Most of them have been deceived by their leaders, not just a little bit, but probably for decades. They're invested at this point. Someone coming along on the Internet and showing them what the Bible says when they think they already know what the Bible says probably isn't going to sit too well with most of them.

I was momentarily unitarian in thought a dozen or so years ago but that could not endure in view of scriptures.

 

[Runningman]

We cannot approach the Bible with wisdom and “reason together” if we must use language controlled by the unitarian heresy.
The unitarians deny the pre-existence of Christ Jesus and deny the verses that speak of his divinity. It is the ambiguity of Jesus both as divine and human that creates the descriptions of God in triune form. If we hide those, the unitarian view almost makes a tiny bit of sense.

So your argument is stop using the Bible. It seems your strategy is now ignore God, Jesus, all of the prophets, and apostles and follow Mike. How about no.

 

[Runningman]

I was momentarily unitarian in thought a dozen or so years ago but that could not endure in view of scriptures.

Then you're actually an apostate Christian, a lost sheep. I am sure you will come back to the real Jesus some day.

 

[mikesw]

So your argument is stop using the Bible. It seems your strategy is now ignore God, Jesus, all of the prophets, and apostles and follow Mike. How about no.

Just stop using the bible for unitarian failed beliefs. You are the one who pretends that the verses of Jesus as God do not exist nor the ones of his pre-existence. Deal with the ambiguity of Jesus as God and human rather than hiding that.

 

[mikesw]

Then you're actually an apostate Christian, a lost sheep. I am sure you will come back to the real Jesus some day.

haha. I'm lost because I have returned to the true concept of Jesus. that is something only a unitarian could hold to.,