Thomas... My Lord and my God

101G said:
if you were, but YOU are not...... JESUS is... thank you.. (smile).

101G.
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Holy Smokes I thought all these years that if I said believe in me. That it meant to believe in who I am which is a man. I never knew that every-time I said believe in me that I was asking people to believe I was God.
 
Peterlag said:
There's no verse in the Bible that says we should believe or confess that Jesus is God.
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" ... for unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins." John 8:24
"I and the Father are one." John 10:30
"He who has seen Me has seen the Father;" John 14:9

In each of these, Jesus is claiming to be the Father. If that is true, and it is, then we are obligated to believe and confess that truth.
 
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dwight92070 said:
Still ludicrous. You pretend to know what was going on in his mind, acknowledging first that he was actually seeing the Lord, and then second, acknowledging that it was God who made that possible. No one can know that. However, if we just simply believe what John said, "Thomas answered and said to Him, 'My Lord and my God.' " - we see that Thomas is directing his words to Jesus, acknowledging clearly who He is - his Lord and his God.
To reject the plain meaning of this sentence shows your hardness of heart, but then, so does your rejection of all the other verses that make His Deity plain. You don't want the truth.

" ... for unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins." John 8:24
"Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham came into being, I AM." John 8:58
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Do you think it's odd that you don't want me to say that I think Thomas saw Jesus and his God when he saw the resurrected Christ? But it's not odd that you pretend to know what was going on in his mind, acknowledging first that he was actually seeing God, and then second, acknowledging that he was calling Jesus God?
 
mikesw said:
Indeed this is a fine example of a hyper-literalist post where the essence of Christ is rejected because the interpreter thinks that scripture cannot be integrated and summarized beyond the surface content of scripture. Worse yet, much of the scripture content and mysteries have to be rejected because they are outside of the hyper-literalist reading.
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He cannot help himself.

He gave his mind/heart over to unbelief.

When a person does this after being spoken to with the Holy Scriptures, over much time and examination and they just continue to refuse, God will just let them remain as they are = in unbelief.

"But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."

Some of us diligently seek the TRUTH from God's Mouth.

Others spend their time arguing against the Truth.
 
Peterlag said:
Holy Smokes I thought all these years that if I said believe in me. That it meant to believe in who I am which is a man. I never knew that every-time I said believe in me that I was asking people to believe I was God.
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all these YEARS you been lost. ....... now comes the "DAY" of your salvation...... (smile)..... :cool: :D isn't God GOOD? my Lord, and my God. "JESUS" is Lord and God.

101G
 
101G said:
all these YEARS you been lost. ....... now comes the "DAY" of your salvation...... (smile)..... :cool: :D isn't God GOOD? my Lord, and my God. "JESUS" is Lord and God.

101G
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Read the OP again.

There's reasons why the Bible does not teach the trinity in one whole paragraph in a few different places or a whole chapter or two on it. There's reasons why there's no teaching on why God would come to the earth as a man. There's reasons why there was never a debate about the trinity in Scripture like we see with justification by works or who should be circumcised. Such an important subject matter like the trinity and the Bible is silent on all of it.

And there's the spinning and twisting from the trinitarians who can't come up with one verse in the Bible that says we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. Trinitarians who can't come up with one verse that says why God would come to the earth as a man. Trinitarians who have to make up their own words that are not in the Bible. Words like trinity, deity, and incarnated.

If any of this nonsense was true and since it's so important and a huge subject to Christianity and is necessary for salvation like many teach. Then it would have been taught by someone somewhere. And it is not.
 
Rockson said:
But can you really deny that those he spoke to knew exactly what he meant? They knew I Am was the name for God. So why not keep these things on context?
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John 8:58
At the last super, the disciples were trying to find out who would deny the Christ. They said literally, "Not I am, Lord" Matthew 26:22, 25. No one would say the disciples were trying to deny they were God because they were using the phrase "Not I am." "I am" was a common way of designating oneself and it did not mean you were claiming to be God. The argument is made that because Jesus was "before" Abraham, Jesus must be God. Jesus figuratively existed in Abraham's time. He did not actually physically exist as a person, but rather he existed in the mind of God as God's plan for the redemption of man. In order for the Trinitarian argument that Jesus' "I am" statement in John 8:58 makes him God, his statement must be equivalent with God's "I am" statement in Exodus 3:14. The two statements are very different. The Greek phrase in John does mean "I am." The Hebrew phrase in Exodus means "to be" or "to become." God was saying "I will be what I will be."
 
Peterlag said:
John 8:58
At the last super, the disciples were trying to find out who would deny the Christ. They said literally, "Not I am, Lord" Matthew 26:22, 25. No one would say the disciples were trying to deny they were God because they were using the phrase "Not I am." "I am" was a common way of designating oneself and it did not mean you were claiming to be God. The argument is made that because Jesus was "before" Abraham, Jesus must be God. Jesus figuratively existed in Abraham's time. He did not actually physically exist as a person, but rather he existed in the mind of God as God's plan for the redemption of man. In order for the Trinitarian argument that Jesus' "I am" statement in John 8:58 makes him God, his statement must be equivalent with God's "I am" statement in Exodus 3:14. The two statements are very different. The Greek phrase in John does mean "I am." The Hebrew phrase in Exodus means "to be" or "to become." God was saying "I will be what I will be."
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great example of eisegesis. thanks. the verse means nothing after the unitarian has interpreted it. The Greek can represent what Jesus said in Aramaic and thus there is no substantiation of the interpretation of the unitarian.
 
Peterlag said:
The argument is made that because Jesus was "before" Abraham, Jesus must be God. Jesus figuratively existed in Abraham's time. He did not actually physically exist as a person,
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God, the Father, has never existed physically. So, if as you argue, physical existence determines actual existence then, by your argument, God does not exist.
 
Doug Brents said:
God, the Father, has never existed physically. So, if as you argue, physical existence determines actual existence then, by your argument, God does not exist.
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This guy says the Trinity folks are not going to see heaven...

I don't believe in his concept of hell, but I do believe he may be on to something concerning the Trinity, which includes the Oneness group since they are just a spin off from the Trinity.

https://youtu.be/Uxg_T-e-RDo?si=l2ldUnOTBjVuAiJk
 

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