Thomas... My Lord and my God
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Nathan
Active Member
3 And this is eternal life: [it means] to know (to perceive, recognize, become acquainted with, and understand) You, the only true and real God, and [likewise] to know Him, Jesus [as the] Christ (the Anointed One, the Messiah), Whom You have sent.
John 17:3
Jesus is our salvation
John 17:3
Jesus is our salvation
Peterlag
Active Member
Jesus is the son of God, the Messiah to Israel, and the now resurrected Lord Christ to the Christian who sits at the right hand of God as second in command and is the head of the Church that is called the body of Christ.
This shows how confused the Unitarians are about the plan and work of salvation of God. The Unitarian holds to an over-simplistic hyper-literalist reading of scripture that misses the love and nuances reflected in God's gift to humanity. It is too bad that this simplistic hyper-literalist misconception of scripture has so greatly overtaken some people's conception of scripture that they cannot properly behold the love of God.
I missed this. The Unitarian heresy examines the passages about the divinity of Christ within a modalist heresy instead of a orthodox understanding of the Triune nature of the Godhead. So they appear to jump from one heresy to another while accumulating more destructive doctrines to go alongside their heretical path.
The image or message posted misses the poetic fulfillment of the imagery of Abraham's scenario of obedience in offering up his son as a sacrifice if God required it. If Jesus were not the divine incarnated, he would just have been another human dying as a martyr. But the Unitarian does not understand that problem in their doctrinal stance.
For those who deny the divinity of Christ in the Godhead, they might as well deny that gentiles benefit through Christ since no benefit to gentiles through the Messiah is made clear. Also, those deniers should say there is no Messiah designation since the concept only materialized in years subsequent to the OT writings. Of course, we see deniers in all these areas. And there are deniers of Paul as an acceptable writer in the NT. Why not also deny that God exists?
I would wonder why reason or logical honest answer to the first question I would present below cannot be applied to the second one;
1. Jesus as “Son of man” being the son of a human Mary. Is He man or not?
2. Jesus as “Son of God” for His father is God. Is He God or not? And why?
Peterlag
Active Member
Jesus is the son of God, the Messiah to Israel, and the now resurrected Lord Christ to the Christian who sits at the right hand of God as second in command and is the head of the Church that is called the body of Christ.
Yes, Jesus as man as His mother is human, Mary. Right?
I wonder why Arians cannot reply with same reason, logical answer as to Jesus being the “Son of God” as His Father is God?
NAS95 render John 1:18 Jesus as the only begotten God supported by the oldest manuscripts, the papyrus 66 and papyrus 75. Other various readings were from later manuscripts.
Jhn 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
The Arianist tends to be a hyper-literalist based on a single out-of-context verse, namely John 17:3. They exclude the balancing of verse 5 where Jesus shared in that glory (before incarnation as Jesus). Then, they exclude all other evidence of the divinity of Christ in the Godhead. Peterlag, especially, simply denies the divinity of Christ in the Godhead without really debating things.
Another advocate of the heresy dropped out after denying over and over again that Jesus also is recognized as raising himself from the dead per John 2:19-22. If Jesus was mere human, he would not be available to raise himself. Peterlag disagrees with the term "mere human" such that he makes Jesus "different" but will not acknowledge his divinity.
Peterlag
Active Member
1. Where did Jesus or the apostles ever name the doctrine of the Trinity?
Don’t tell us what later church councils said. Where did Jesus teach it? Where did the apostles explain it?
2. Where did Jesus or the apostles ever describe God as “three persons in one essence”?
Give chapter and verse—no creeds, no analogies, no philosophy. Just show us where they said it.
3. If God is truly three coequal persons, why did Jesus say “the Father is greater than I” (John 14:28), and “I can do nothing of Myself” (John 5:30)?
Was Jesus lying? Or are you forcing theology into the text?
4. If the Holy Spirit is a third coequal divine person, why does Jesus say the Father will send the Spirit in His name after He prays (John 14:16, 26)?
If the Spirit is fully God, why does He need to be sent? And why does Jesus have to ask?
5. If Jesus is coequal with the Father, why is He called “a man approved by God” (Acts 2:22), and why does Paul say “God has made this Jesus both Lord and Christ” (Acts 2:36)?
Are you claiming Jesus was “made Lord” in appearance only? Was His humanity just a shell?
Don’t tell us what later church councils said. Where did Jesus teach it? Where did the apostles explain it?
2. Where did Jesus or the apostles ever describe God as “three persons in one essence”?
Give chapter and verse—no creeds, no analogies, no philosophy. Just show us where they said it.
3. If God is truly three coequal persons, why did Jesus say “the Father is greater than I” (John 14:28), and “I can do nothing of Myself” (John 5:30)?
Was Jesus lying? Or are you forcing theology into the text?
4. If the Holy Spirit is a third coequal divine person, why does Jesus say the Father will send the Spirit in His name after He prays (John 14:16, 26)?
If the Spirit is fully God, why does He need to be sent? And why does Jesus have to ask?
5. If Jesus is coequal with the Father, why is He called “a man approved by God” (Acts 2:22), and why does Paul say “God has made this Jesus both Lord and Christ” (Acts 2:36)?
Are you claiming Jesus was “made Lord” in appearance only? Was His humanity just a shell?
Indeed this is a fine example of a hyper-literalist post where the essence of Christ is rejected because the interpreter thinks that scripture cannot be integrated and summarized beyond the surface content of scripture. Worse yet, much of the scripture content and mysteries have to be rejected because they are outside of the hyper-literalist reading.
1. If you can show a verse that the apostles also named the Bible as the Scriptures.
Concept of Trinity mentioned in Matt 28:19.
2. Acts 17:29, Rom 1:20, Col 2:9 and Acts 5:3-4. They are one in the nature of God in three distinct persons.
3. All the Father had are mine. (John 16:15) That's equality. Father is greater than Jesus is what is called "relational subordination".
4. The Father also sent Jesus. They three have different roles in saving mankind but that does not mean they are not one in the nature of God.
5. That is Jesus when in human nature. Is Jesus words wrong in John 16:15?
Peterlag
Active Member
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
A mediator is the third party through whom agreement is reached between two parties previously in conflict with each other. Christ is the mediator of the new covenant, the one whose action makes the covenant possible, and who is the guarantor of its execution. Christ Jesus is the one functioning as a go between, in order to initiate a relationship with us because he is literally connected to both sides, and therefore he is set between God and us. It's our big brother Christ Jesus, who is the one who is acting as a guarantee—to secure something that otherwise would not be obtained. Christ is the better covenant, the new covenant, guaranteeing its terms for the Christian people before the almighty God. Christ Jesus is producing peace for the salvation of his Church and has made a promise of assurance that the new covenant will perform satisfactorily because he is the one who is set between God and us.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
A mediator is the third party through whom agreement is reached between two parties previously in conflict with each other. Christ is the mediator of the new covenant, the one whose action makes the covenant possible, and who is the guarantor of its execution. Christ Jesus is the one functioning as a go between, in order to initiate a relationship with us because he is literally connected to both sides, and therefore he is set between God and us. It's our big brother Christ Jesus, who is the one who is acting as a guarantee—to secure something that otherwise would not be obtained. Christ is the better covenant, the new covenant, guaranteeing its terms for the Christian people before the almighty God. Christ Jesus is producing peace for the salvation of his Church and has made a promise of assurance that the new covenant will perform satisfactorily because he is the one who is set between God and us.
Peterlag
Active Member
The life of Jesus, and the subsequent persecution of Christians during the Roman Empire, have come to define what many of us know about early Christianity. The fervent debate, civil strife, and bloody riots as Christianity was coming into being, however, is a side of ancient history rarely described.
Richard E. Rubenstein takes the reader to the streets of fourth-century Rome, when a fateful debate over the divinity of Jesus Christ is being fought. Ruled by a Christian emperor, followers of Jesus no longer fear for the survival of their monotheistic faith. But soon they break into two camps regarding the direction of their worship: Is Jesus the son of God and therefore not the same as God? Or is Jesus precisely God on Earth and therefore equal to Him?
With thorough historical, religious, and social research, Rubenstein vividly recreates one of the most critical moments in the history of religion.
It is a bit of a bummer that the arguments for the heretical Arian view were not preserved. Maybe the arguments back then had substance instead of the type we see now -- which is just restating the premise and denying the meaning of many passages.
dwight92070
Active Member
I would imagine that the anti-Trinity views back then were not much different than they are today.
dwight92070
Active Member
The leftist press, the leftist media, and the Democrats knew that Biden was not fit to be president, but hid that information from the American people and even lied about it. The Biden family is especially guilty, in particular Jill Biden, Biden's brother, Hunter Biden, etc., all who had regular and close dealings with him - including Kamala Harris and her husband. It's time to hold them accountable for their dangerous coverup and their dangerous lies - including the press, the media, and the Democrats.
Basically our country was NOT being led by Biden, but by some other person or persons and we, the American people were put at great risk. We need the truth. These evil people need to be brought to justice and given appropriate consequences and punishment, whatever that may be.
Let it be known throughout this country and the world. The Democrats, the leftist press, and leftist media cannot EVER AGAIN be trusted and should NEVER AGAIN be allowed to be in ANY POSITION of governmental authority or the media or the press. They are evil, liars, and even traitors, who have betrayed the American people.
Basically our country was NOT being led by Biden, but by some other person or persons and we, the American people were put at great risk. We need the truth. These evil people need to be brought to justice and given appropriate consequences and punishment, whatever that may be.
Let it be known throughout this country and the world. The Democrats, the leftist press, and leftist media cannot EVER AGAIN be trusted and should NEVER AGAIN be allowed to be in ANY POSITION of governmental authority or the media or the press. They are evil, liars, and even traitors, who have betrayed the American people.
