synergy
Active Member
Who is the "us" in all the Biblical quotes you forwarded? That's the audience who are Believers already. Give us at least one verse that explicitly mentions the elect and salvation and then we can talk.
Things that accompany Christ
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes its believers only, He died only for believers duh. He only obtained their eternal redemption. However He did this for them prior to them becoming believers, and its why they become believers.
synergy
Active Member
So you can't offer even one verse that explicitly mentions "elect" and salvation and makes your case for limited atonement. It's back to the Heresy Concocting Drawing Board for you.
Last edited:
brightfame52
Active Member
everyone Christ died for has had their penalty for sin taken away, thats one of the benefits of eternal redemption. Heb 9:12
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
The word redemption here λύτρωσις:
- a ransoming, redemption
- deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin
The penalty of sin is death ,
They shall not see death as a penalty for their sins,
Now that doesnt apply to all mankind, many are going into second death for their sins Rev 21 8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
So these cannot be anyone Christ obtained eternal redemption for, they obviously are the nonelect goats
synergy
Active Member
You failed to provide any verse that explicitly mentions "elect" and salvation. This confirms that salvation is associated with belief, not with election. Thank you for your participation in the dismantling of the calvinist heresy.
brightfame52
Active Member
Heb 9 is written to Gods elect, duh
synergy
Active Member
Once again you failed to provide any verse that explicitly mentions "elect" and salvation. Again, this confirms that salvation is associated with belief, not with election. Thank you for your continued participation in the dismantling of the Heresy of Calvinism.
brightfame52
Active Member
Hebrews is written to a chosen people Duh. Eternal Redemption was obtained for them Hebrews 9:12
synergy
Active Member
civic
Active Member
yep its nowhere to be found.
brightfame52
Active Member
The point is the letter is to a chosen people, so thats who Heb 9:12 is about, and they have eternal redemption, that accompanies Christs death.So every Hebrew is elected to be saved?? Too bad you're not Hebrew!
synergy
Active Member
Elected or chosen, you're still promoting the idea that all Hebrew people are chosen/elected to be saved. You just became a disciple of your good friend @jeremiah1five. Congratulations!
brightfame52
Active Member
Then you must consider, them Christ died for the penalty of their sins is gone, they can never die eternally, and we know that doesnt apply to all mankind, thus a election
synergy
Active Member
Huh? There's always a penalty for sins.
Why would anyone want to die eternally? Is that what calvinism offers? Thanks for the warning of what calvinism offers.
Election does not apply to all the Hebrew elect? What are they called - the elected non-elect?
brightfame52
Active Member
Yeah, the redemption of Heb 9:12 delivered them He died for from the penalty of sin. That applies to only a remnant of mankind. That portion going to hell for the penalty of their sins,He didn't obtain eternal redemption for them, duhHuh? There's always a penalty for sins.
Why would anyone want to die eternally? Is that what calvinism offers? Thanks for the warning of what calvinism offers.
Election does not apply to all the Hebrew elect? What are they called - the elected non-elect?
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Correct. I agree with Saul who agrees with the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Romans 11:26–27.
Saul is speaking of the New Covenant. The New Covenant was prophesied by Jeremiah, and he said the New Covenant is between God and the House of Israel and the House of Judah - NO NON-HEBREW GENTILES INCLUDED.
Be careful in calling God a liar. It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the Living God.
It's a shame many don't believe God and His Word in Jeremiah 31:31-34.
I won't quote the passage. You can look it up and see the New Covenant is between God and the House of Israel and the House of Judah.
Take note: non-Hebrew Gentiles are NOT included. Thus, Jesus died to atone the sins of Israel and because of their covenant with God "ALL ISRAEL shall be saved" just as Saul says.
brightfame52
Active Member
The all Israel that shall be saved is the Church the Body of Christ where race isnt a factor Gal 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed]Israel], and heirs according to the promise.
synergy
Active Member
So now you're saying that not all Hebrews are elected for salvation whereas before you said that they were. You can't even get your heresy story straight.
brightfame52
Active Member
I show you scripture, you respond with insults and false accusations
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Back up. Saul is addressing a people who were under a "schoolmaster" and under the Law of Moses (Gal. 3:23), meaning Saul is addressing Jews who were under a "schoolmaster" and under the Law.
And the Church Christ promised to build is only an extension, a spiritual extension of a "great congregation" that consisted of Hebrews that God delivered from the bondage of Egypt and who were led through the desert ending up at the foot of Mount Sinai where God gave the children of Israel His Law for living and life. On the birthday of the Church of "called out" [Greek: "ekklesia"] people why is it that three thousand Jews were the only ones baptized into the Hebrew body of Christ during the Jewish Feast of Harvest that day?
Saul is addressing Jews who were under a "schoolmaster" and that schoolmaster are the people of the Law, a people who were under the Law of Moses, that it is they who by being Christ's were still a people who were heirs of the promise given to Abraham and Abraham's seed.
God made no covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. And since you claim falsely that He did tell me his name. Who is this non-Hebrew Gentile you say through whom God gave covenant promises to? PROVE your false belief and post the Scripture telling the name of this non-Hebrew Gentile God made covenant with.
