The work of God is for YOU TO BELIEVE

civic

Well-known member
The Context, the biblical narrative that calvinists ignore and focus on one verse removed from the context to give it the opposite meaning of what Jesus has been teaching throughout John 6,

John 6
When Jesus looked up and saw a great crowd coming toward him, he said to Philip, “Where shall we buy bread for these people to eat?” 6 He asked this only to test him, for he already had in mind what he was going to do.

7 Philip answered him, “It would take more than half a year’s wages to buy enough bread for each one to have a bite!”

8 Another of his disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother, spoke up, 9 “Here is a boy with five small barley loaves and two small fish, but how far will they go among so many?”

10 Jesus said, “Have the people sit down.” There was plenty of grass in that place, and they sat down (about five thousand men were there). 11 Jesus then took the loaves, gave thanks, and distributed to those who were seated as much as they wanted. He did the same with the fish.

12 When they had all had enough to eat, he said to his disciples, “Gather the pieces that are left over. Let nothing be wasted.” 13 So they gathered them and filled twelve baskets with the pieces of the five barley loaves left over by those who had eaten.

14 After the people saw the sign Jesus performed, they began to say, “Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world.” 15 Jesus, knowing that they intended to come and make him king by force, withdrew again to a mountain by himself.

Jesus Walks on the Water​

16 When evening came, his disciples went down to the lake, 17 where they got into a boat and set off across the lake for Capernaum. By now it was dark, and Jesus had not yet joined them. 18 A strong wind was blowing and the waters grew rough. 19 When they had rowed about three or four miles, they saw Jesus approaching the boat, walking on the water; and they were frightened. 20 But he said to them, “It is I; don’t be afraid.” 21 Then they were willing to take him into the boat, and immediately the boat reached the shore where they were heading.

22 The next day the crowd that had stayed on the opposite shore of the lake realized that only one boat had been there, and that Jesus had not entered it with his disciples, but that they had gone away alone. 23 Then some boats from Tiberias landed near the place where the people had eaten the bread after the Lord had given thanks. 24 Once the crowd realized that neither Jesus nor his disciples were there, they got into the boats and went to Capernaum in search of Jesus.

Jesus the Bread of Life​

25 When they found him on the other side of the lake, they asked him, “Rabbi, when did you get here?”

26 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. 27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”

28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: that you believe in the one he has sent.”

30 So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? 31 Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’”

32 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.

34 “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”

35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”

43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

conclusion: anyone who eats the heavenly manna has life and the work of God is that anyone can believe in the Son to have everlasting life. God doesn't do the work for you ( believing ) its man who must eat/drink so that they may have life in the Son by believing in the One who was sent from the Father.

hope this helps !!!
 
Gods grace is providing manna for anyone to eat. Gods grace is sending His Son for all the world. ( . John 6:51 ) One must eat the manna God provided to live. Man must believe to have life.
I agree with both parts you have to eat and you have to believe. That's what Jesus taught.

Jesus said, “I tell you the truth, you must eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood. Otherwise, you won’t have real life in you. Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood have eternal life, and I will raise them up on the last day. My flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood live in me, and I live in them. The living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father. So whoever eats me will live because of me. I am not like the bread your ancestors ate. They ate that bread and still died. I am the bread that came down from heaven, and whoever eats this bread will live forever.”

John 6:53-58​

 
Gods grace is providing manna for anyone to eat. Gods grace is sending His Son for all the world. ( . John 6:51 ) One must eat the manna God provided to live. Man must believe to have life.

God didn't drop manna in the laps of the people in the wilderness. They had to "gather it".
 
I'll shorten that conversation... :)

I believe in limited freewill.

God provided the manna but it was useless to them if they didn't gather it. Do you think Moses had the go out and gather it too?
Interesting-no, Moshe did not go out to gather manna-explain how limited is freewill?
 
Correct--and?
And how does one come to faith in Jesus Christ? Faith comes through hearing the word of God.

Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. Romans 10:17

But due to man's natural hardness of heart, only God can remove our hostility to the gospel. He opens our eyes and we see.

The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 1 Corinthians 2:14

The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Romans 8:7

He unplugs our ears and we hear. He disarms our willful hostility and softens our heart that we may believe.

But to this day the Lord has not given you a mind that understands or eyes that see or ears that hear. Deuteronomy 29:4

The Lord your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live. Deuteronomy 30:6

I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. Ezekiel 36:26

It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you that do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the first who those were that did not believe, and who it was that would betray him. 65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” John 6:63–65
 
Interesting-no, Moshe did not go out to gather manna-explain how limited is freewill?

I'd say that Moses had to do exactly what the rest of them had to do.

Freewill is limited in many ways. The will is limited by circumstances. The will is often powerless to accomplishes what it desires. In our minds we are free but that is both good and bad.

In the context of the OP, the will is more than capable of freely relying/accepting the message of "true manna" in Christ.
 
And how does one come to faith in Jesus Christ? Faith comes through hearing the word of God.
I notice you give me a ream of isolated verses, ignoring context-no offense.



Romans 10:17 (NIV):
"Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ."

Greek Text:
ἄρα ἡ πίστις ἐξ ἀκοῆς, ἡ δὲ ἀκοὴ διὰ ῥήματος Χριστοῦ.

Syntax and Morphology Analysis:
ἄρα (ara):

Part of Speech: Conjunction
Meaning: "Consequently" or "therefore"
Syntax: This conjunction introduces a conclusion based on the preceding statements. It connects the idea that faith is a result of something specific.
ἡ πίστις (hē pistis):

ἡ: Definite article, nominative singular feminine.
πίστις: Noun, nominative singular feminine, meaning "faith."
Syntax: "ἡ πίστις" is the subject of the sentence, indicating that faith is the primary focus.
ἐξ ἀκοῆς (ex akoēs):

ἐξ: Preposition, meaning "from" or "out of."
ἀκοῆς: Noun, genitive singular feminine, meaning "hearing."
Syntax: The prepositional phrase "ἐξ ἀκοῆς" functions adverbially, explaining the source or means by which faith comes. The genitive case indicates the source or origin.
ἡ δὲ ἀκοὴ (hē de akoē):

ἡ: Definite article, nominative singular feminine.
δὲ: Conjunction, meaning "and" or "but."
ἀκοὴ: Noun, nominative singular feminine, meaning "hearing."
Syntax: This clause introduces another subject, "hearing," and further explains it in relation to the preceding statement.
διὰ ῥήματος Χριστοῦ (dia rhēmatos Christou):


διὰ: Preposition, meaning "through" or "by means of."
ῥήματος: Noun, genitive singular neuter, meaning "word" or "message."
Χριστοῦ: Noun, genitive singular masculine, meaning "Christ."

Syntax: The prepositional phrase "διὰ ῥήματος Χριστοῦ" modifies "ἀκοὴ," explaining that the hearing is specifically through the word or message of Christ. The genitive case indicates the source or content of the message.

Overall Meaning:
Faith (πίστις): Faith is the main subject, indicating trust or belief in God and His promises.

Comes by (ἐξ): The preposition indicates the origin or source of faith.

Hearing (ἀκοή): Hearing is the means by which faith is generated. It emphasizes the necessity of receiving the message audibly or mentally.
Through the word of Christ (διὰ ῥήματος Χριστοῦ): The message that is heard, which produces faith, specifically refers to the word or message concerning Christ.

Commentary:
Romans 10:17 emphasizes the process by which faith is developed. It underscores the importance of hearing the message about Christ as the means through which faith is produced in individuals. The structure of the sentence makes it clear that faith originates from hearing, and the content of what is heard—the word of Christ—is crucial. This highlights the necessity of preaching and proclaiming the Gospel so that people can hear, believe, and develop faith.

So faith originates from "hearing" correct @Biblelesson? Explain to me your definition of emunah/faith and how you understand it-is it a dorean/gift?


Luther wrote on the Bondage of the will--something like it--do you concur?

Are we born "dead"
incapacitated-unable to hear or respond to the good news?

Will wait for a response brother.
Johann.

It shall help thee greatly yo understand Scripture-
If thou mark not only what is spoken
Or written
But of whom
And to whom
With what words
At what time
Where
To what intent
With what circumstances
Considering what goeth before
And what followeth after

Miles Coverdale-died in 1569
 
I'd say that Moses had to do exactly what the rest of them had to do.

Freewill is limited in many ways. The will is limited by circumstances. The will is often powerless to accomplishes what it desires. In our minds we are free but that is both good and bad.

In the context of the OP, the will is more than capable of freely relying/accepting the message of "true manna" in Christ.
No, the Bible does not mention Moses himself going out to gather manna. Instead, it describes the Israelites gathering manna under Moses' leadership. Let's look at the relevant passages:

Exodus 16:13-18 (NIV):
13 That evening quail came and covered the camp, and in the morning there was a layer of dew around the camp. 14 When the dew was gone, thin flakes like frost on the ground appeared on the desert floor. 15 When the Israelites saw it, they said to each other, "What is it?" For they did not know what it was.

Moses said to them, "It is the bread the LORD has given you to eat. 16 This is what the LORD has commanded: 'Everyone is to gather as much as they need. Take an omer for each person you have in your tent.'"

17 The Israelites did as they were told; some gathered much, some little. 18 And when they measured it by the omer, the one who gathered much did not have too much, and the one who gathered little did not have too little. Everyone had gathered just as much as they needed.

Commentary:
Moses' Role: Moses communicated God's instructions regarding the gathering of manna. He directed the Israelites to gather the manna each morning, specifying how much each person should collect.
Israelites' Responsibility: The actual task of gathering manna was carried out by the Israelites, as they followed Moses' instructions. There is no record in the Bible of Moses personally gathering manna.

is the "will" as dead? Incapacitated-like Lazurus interred in the tomb?


Total Depravity (Calvinism)


View: In Calvinist theology, the concept of total depravity suggests that every aspect of human nature is tainted by sin, making humans incapable of choosing God or doing good without divine intervention.
Scriptural Support:

Romans 3:10-12: "As it is written: 'There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.'"

Ephesians 2:1: "As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins."

Implication: This view implies that free will is so impaired by sin that humans cannot come to God on their own and need regeneration by the Holy Spirit first.

Free Will and Responsibility (Arminianism and Other Views)

View: In Arminian theology and other traditions, free will is seen as preserved, allowing individuals to respond to God’s grace. God’s prevenient grace enables humans to choose or reject salvation.


Scriptural Support:
Deuteronomy 30:19: "This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live."

John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

2 Peter 3:9: "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."

Implication: This view maintains that while humans are affected by sin, they are still capable of making genuine choices regarding faith and obedience.

Middle Knowledge (Molinism)

View: Molinism, developed by Luis de Molina, posits that God’s omniscience includes knowledge of all possible decisions individuals could make in any circumstance (middle knowledge). This allows for divine sovereignty and human free will to coexist.

Scriptural Support:
1 Corinthians 10:13: "No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it."


Implication: God’s foreknowledge and human free will are compatible; God knows all potential choices, but humans still freely make their decisions.

Key Points:

Impaired Free Will:
In some theological perspectives, free will is impaired or "dead" due to sin, requiring divine intervention for humans to make any movement toward God.

Enabled Free Will: Other perspectives hold that while human will is weakened by sin, prevenient grace from God enables individuals to respond freely to His call.

Balanced Sovereignty and Free Will: Some theological systems attempt to balance divine sovereignty and human free will, asserting that God’s knowledge of future contingents includes human free actions.

Conclusion:
The notion that free will is "dead" is context-dependent and varies across theological traditions. Some argue that human free will is severely limited without divine intervention (e.g., Calvinism), while others maintain that God's grace enables human free will to respond to Him (e.g., Arminianism, Molinism). The interpretation hinges on one's understanding of human nature, sin, and divine grace as presented in Scripture.


Pick your poison brother-which one do you believe is Biblically correct @praise_yeshua?

Johann.
 
No, the Bible does not mention Moses himself going out to gather manna. Instead, it describes the Israelites gathering manna under Moses' leadership. Let's look at the relevant passages:

Exodus 16:13-18 (NIV):
13 That evening quail came and covered the camp, and in the morning there was a layer of dew around the camp. 14 When the dew was gone, thin flakes like frost on the ground appeared on the desert floor. 15 When the Israelites saw it, they said to each other, "What is it?" For they did not know what it was.

Moses said to them, "It is the bread the LORD has given you to eat. 16 This is what the LORD has commanded: 'Everyone is to gather as much as they need. Take an omer for each person you have in your tent.'"

17 The Israelites did as they were told; some gathered much, some little. 18 And when they measured it by the omer, the one who gathered much did not have too much, and the one who gathered little did not have too little. Everyone had gathered just as much as they needed.

Commentary:
Moses' Role: Moses communicated God's instructions regarding the gathering of manna. He directed the Israelites to gather the manna each morning, specifying how much each person should collect.
Israelites' Responsibility: The actual task of gathering manna was carried out by the Israelites, as they followed Moses' instructions. There is no record in the Bible of Moses personally gathering manna.

is the "will" as dead? Incapacitated-like Lazurus interred in the tomb?


Total Depravity (Calvinism)


View: In Calvinist theology, the concept of total depravity suggests that every aspect of human nature is tainted by sin, making humans incapable of choosing God or doing good without divine intervention.
Scriptural Support:

Romans 3:10-12: "As it is written: 'There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.'"

Ephesians 2:1: "As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins."

Implication: This view implies that free will is so impaired by sin that humans cannot come to God on their own and need regeneration by the Holy Spirit first.

Free Will and Responsibility (Arminianism and Other Views)

View: In Arminian theology and other traditions, free will is seen as preserved, allowing individuals to respond to God’s grace. God’s prevenient grace enables humans to choose or reject salvation.


Scriptural Support:
Deuteronomy 30:19: "This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live."

John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

2 Peter 3:9: "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."

Implication: This view maintains that while humans are affected by sin, they are still capable of making genuine choices regarding faith and obedience.

Middle Knowledge (Molinism)

View: Molinism, developed by Luis de Molina, posits that God’s omniscience includes knowledge of all possible decisions individuals could make in any circumstance (middle knowledge). This allows for divine sovereignty and human free will to coexist.

Scriptural Support:
1 Corinthians 10:13: "No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it."


Implication: God’s foreknowledge and human free will are compatible; God knows all potential choices, but humans still freely make their decisions.

Key Points:

Impaired Free Will:
In some theological perspectives, free will is impaired or "dead" due to sin, requiring divine intervention for humans to make any movement toward God.

Enabled Free Will: Other perspectives hold that while human will is weakened by sin, prevenient grace from God enables individuals to respond freely to His call.

Balanced Sovereignty and Free Will: Some theological systems attempt to balance divine sovereignty and human free will, asserting that God’s knowledge of future contingents includes human free actions.

Conclusion:
The notion that free will is "dead" is context-dependent and varies across theological traditions. Some argue that human free will is severely limited without divine intervention (e.g., Calvinism), while others maintain that God's grace enables human free will to respond to Him (e.g., Arminianism, Molinism). The interpretation hinges on one's understanding of human nature, sin, and divine grace as presented in Scripture.


Pick your poison brother-which one do you believe is Biblically correct @praise_yeshua?

Johann.

I pick the Scriptures. I reject Calvinism, Arminianism, and Molinism.

Did Moses consume manna? If not, then what did he eat while the remainder of them ate manna? We know there were situations where they only had manna to eat. Numbers 11 for example.
 
I pick the Scriptures. I reject Calvinism, Arminianism, and Molinism.

Did Moses consume manna? If not, then what did he eat while the remainder of them ate manna? We know there were situations where they only had manna to eat. Numbers 11 for example.
Forget the manna-"What is it?" (mah hu?)

Exodus 16:14-15 (NIV):

"When the dew was gone, thin flakes like frost on the ground appeared on the desert floor. When the Israelites saw it, they said to each other, 'What is it?' For they did not know what it was. Moses said to them, 'It is the bread the Lord has given you to eat.'"
In Hebrew: וַיִּקְרְאוּ בֵּית יִשְׂרָאֵל אֶת שְׁמוֹ מָן (va-yikre'u beit Yisra'el et shemo man) - "The house of Israel called its name manna."
Exodus 16:31 (NIV):

"The people of Israel called the bread manna. It was white like coriander seed and tasted like wafers made with honey."
In Hebrew: וַיִּקְרְאוּ בֵּית יִשְׂרָאֵל אֶת שְׁמוֹ מָן וְהוּא כְּזֶרַע גַּד לָבָן וְטַעְמוֹ כְּצַפִּיחִת בִּדְבָשׁ (va-yikre'u beit Yisra'el et shemo man ve-hu ke-zera gad lavan ve-ta'amo ke-tsappichit bi-dvash) - "The house of Israel called its name manna; it was like coriander seed, white, and its taste was like wafers made with honey."

Etymology and Meaning:
The Hebrew word מָן (man) is thought to be derived from the question "מָה הוּא?" (mah hu?), which means "What is it?" This is reflected in the Israelites' reaction when they first saw it, as recorded in Exodus 16:15.
The word מָן (man) is thus directly connected to the mysterious and miraculous nature of the substance provided by God.
Characteristics of Manna:
Appearance: Manna is described as being like coriander seed, white in color (Exodus 16:31).
Taste: It tasted like wafers made with honey (Exodus 16:31), and elsewhere it is described as having the taste of something made with olive oil (Numbers 11:8).
Collection: The Israelites were instructed to gather a specific amount each day (an omer per person), and twice as much on the sixth day to cover the Sabbath (Exodus 16:16-26).
Theological Significance:
Provision: Manna symbolizes God's provision and care for His people. It was a daily reminder of His sustenance and faithfulness.
Dependence: The daily gathering of manna taught the Israelites to depend on God for their needs each day.
Typology: In Christian theology, manna is often seen as a type of Christ, the "bread of life." Jesus refers to Himself as the true bread from heaven in John 6:31-35, drawing a parallel between the manna provided in the wilderness and Himself as the spiritual sustenance for believers.


--and there goes synergism and monergism--very good, we are going somewhere

let's zoom in on freewill=how limited is our freewill brother, i.e. the ability to make choices-- the unbeliever versus the believer?

You can reject whatever you wish to reject-give me your biblical meaning and definition of freewill and is the boule/thelema "as dead as Lazarus interred in the tomb?"

or as this-Amplified Version

Eph 2:1 And you [He made alive when you] were [spiritually] dead and separated from Him because of your transgressions and sins,

Eph 2:2 in which you once walked. You were following the ways of this world [influenced by this present age], in accordance with the prince of the power of the air (Satan), the spirit who is now at work in the disobedient [the unbelieving, who fight against the purposes of God].

--"dead" as the above, unable to make choices?

Will wait for a response brother.
 
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Jesus throughout the gospels used physical eating , drinking and thirsting and crossed it over to spiritual eating, drinking thirsting and hunger for Him and that He alone can only satisfy. His food and water are everlasting and can bring everlasting life to those who partake of Him.
 
Freewill is limited in many ways. The will is limited by circumstances. The will is often powerless to accomplishes what it desires. In our minds we are free but that is both good and bad.
You seem to be talking about making a decision or choice here, not free will. Free will is not just the ability to decide at all or to chose anything but the ability to decide without being coerced or forced to chose any particular option.

A free will has no constraints upon it to chose this or that, good or bad, faith or rebuke. A will enslaved to sin is not a free will.

The ability to choose does not prove free will, only the ability to choose true RIGHTEOUSNESS (not just a worldy goodness) proves our will is free from the enslavement of evil.

And if we can only choose that righteousness by HIS grace and HIS will, how can we said to be free? If we can only choose to be His bride by His grace and His will, then how can it be called a true marriage based upon true love?

ImCo, our rebirth returns the free will we used to enjoy (before we chose to sin and become enslaved to evil) by ending our enslavement to sin and then our training in righteousness by harsh discipline, Heb 12:5-11, teaches us to only choose righteousness with our regained free will. This training called becoming sanctified is what makes us truly heaven ready.
 
I notice you give me a ream of isolated verses, ignoring context-no offense.



Romans 10:17 (NIV):
"Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ."

Greek Text:
ἄρα ἡ πίστις ἐξ ἀκοῆς, ἡ δὲ ἀκοὴ διὰ ῥήματος Χριστοῦ.

Syntax and Morphology Analysis:
ἄρα (ara):

Part of Speech: Conjunction
Meaning: "Consequently" or "therefore"
Syntax: This conjunction introduces a conclusion based on the preceding statements. It connects the idea that faith is a result of something specific.
ἡ πίστις (hē pistis):

ἡ: Definite article, nominative singular feminine.
πίστις: Noun, nominative singular feminine, meaning "faith."
Syntax: "ἡ πίστις" is the subject of the sentence, indicating that faith is the primary focus.
ἐξ ἀκοῆς (ex akoēs):

ἐξ: Preposition, meaning "from" or "out of."
ἀκοῆς: Noun, genitive singular feminine, meaning "hearing."
Syntax: The prepositional phrase "ἐξ ἀκοῆς" functions adverbially, explaining the source or means by which faith comes. The genitive case indicates the source or origin.
ἡ δὲ ἀκοὴ (hē de akoē):

ἡ: Definite article, nominative singular feminine.
δὲ: Conjunction, meaning "and" or "but."
ἀκοὴ: Noun, nominative singular feminine, meaning "hearing."
Syntax: This clause introduces another subject, "hearing," and further explains it in relation to the preceding statement.
διὰ ῥήματος Χριστοῦ (dia rhēmatos Christou):


διὰ: Preposition, meaning "through" or "by means of."
ῥήματος: Noun, genitive singular neuter, meaning "word" or "message."
Χριστοῦ: Noun, genitive singular masculine, meaning "Christ."

Syntax: The prepositional phrase "διὰ ῥήματος Χριστοῦ" modifies "ἀκοὴ," explaining that the hearing is specifically through the word or message of Christ. The genitive case indicates the source or content of the message.

Overall Meaning:
Faith (πίστις): Faith is the main subject, indicating trust or belief in God and His promises.

Comes by (ἐξ): The preposition indicates the origin or source of faith.

Hearing (ἀκοή): Hearing is the means by which faith is generated. It emphasizes the necessity of receiving the message audibly or mentally.
Through the word of Christ (διὰ ῥήματος Χριστοῦ): The message that is heard, which produces faith, specifically refers to the word or message concerning Christ.

Commentary:
Romans 10:17 emphasizes the process by which faith is developed. It underscores the importance of hearing the message about Christ as the means through which faith is produced in individuals. The structure of the sentence makes it clear that faith originates from hearing, and the content of what is heard—the word of Christ—is crucial. This highlights the necessity of preaching and proclaiming the Gospel so that people can hear, believe, and develop faith.

So faith originates from "hearing" correct @Biblelesson? Explain to me your definition of emunah/faith and how you understand it-is it a dorean/gift?


Luther wrote on the Bondage of the will--something like it--do you concur?

Are we born "dead"
incapacitated-unable to hear or respond to the good news?

Will wait for a response brother.
Johann.

It shall help thee greatly yo understand Scripture-
If thou mark not only what is spoken
Or written
But of whom
And to whom
With what words
At what time
Where
To what intent
With what circumstances
Considering what goeth before
And what followeth after

Miles Coverdale-died in 1569
Still waiting brother.
Johann.
 
Jesus throughout the gospels used physical eating , drinking and thirsting and crossed it over to spiritual eating, drinking thirsting and hunger for Him and that He alone can only satisfy.
I agree. And as I said elsewhere, I believe everyone hungers for faith in something. It's often described as the God-shaped hole in our being. If we put anything but Jesus in there, we're left wanting. Only Jesus can satisfy.
 
I notice you give me a ream of isolated verses, ignoring context-no offense.



Romans 10:17 (NIV):
"Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ."

Greek Text:
ἄρα ἡ πίστις ἐξ ἀκοῆς, ἡ δὲ ἀκοὴ διὰ ῥήματος Χριστοῦ.

Syntax and Morphology Analysis:
ἄρα (ara):

Part of Speech: Conjunction
Meaning: "Consequently" or "therefore"
Syntax: This conjunction introduces a conclusion based on the preceding statements. It connects the idea that faith is a result of something specific.
ἡ πίστις (hē pistis):

ἡ: Definite article, nominative singular feminine.
πίστις: Noun, nominative singular feminine, meaning "faith."
Syntax: "ἡ πίστις" is the subject of the sentence, indicating that faith is the primary focus.
ἐξ ἀκοῆς (ex akoēs):

ἐξ: Preposition, meaning "from" or "out of."
ἀκοῆς: Noun, genitive singular feminine, meaning "hearing."
Syntax: The prepositional phrase "ἐξ ἀκοῆς" functions adverbially, explaining the source or means by which faith comes. The genitive case indicates the source or origin.
ἡ δὲ ἀκοὴ (hē de akoē):

ἡ: Definite article, nominative singular feminine.
δὲ: Conjunction, meaning "and" or "but."
ἀκοὴ: Noun, nominative singular feminine, meaning "hearing."
Syntax: This clause introduces another subject, "hearing," and further explains it in relation to the preceding statement.
διὰ ῥήματος Χριστοῦ (dia rhēmatos Christou):


διὰ: Preposition, meaning "through" or "by means of."
ῥήματος: Noun, genitive singular neuter, meaning "word" or "message."
Χριστοῦ: Noun, genitive singular masculine, meaning "Christ."

Syntax: The prepositional phrase "διὰ ῥήματος Χριστοῦ" modifies "ἀκοὴ," explaining that the hearing is specifically through the word or message of Christ. The genitive case indicates the source or content of the message.

Overall Meaning:
Faith (πίστις): Faith is the main subject, indicating trust or belief in God and His promises.

Comes by (ἐξ): The preposition indicates the origin or source of faith.

Hearing (ἀκοή): Hearing is the means by which faith is generated. It emphasizes the necessity of receiving the message audibly or mentally.
Through the word of Christ (διὰ ῥήματος Χριστοῦ): The message that is heard, which produces faith, specifically refers to the word or message concerning Christ.

Commentary:
Romans 10:17 emphasizes the process by which faith is developed. It underscores the importance of hearing the message about Christ as the means through which faith is produced in individuals. The structure of the sentence makes it clear that faith originates from hearing, and the content of what is heard—the word of Christ—is crucial. This highlights the necessity of preaching and proclaiming the Gospel so that people can hear, believe, and develop faith.

So faith originates from "hearing" correct @Biblelesson? Explain to me your definition of emunah/faith and how you understand it-is it a dorean/gift?


Luther wrote on the Bondage of the will--something like it--do you concur?

Are we born "dead"
incapacitated-unable to hear or respond to the good news?

Will wait for a response brother.
Johann.

It shall help thee greatly yo understand Scripture-
If thou mark not only what is spoken
Or written
But of whom
And to whom
With what words
At what time
Where
To what intent
With what circumstances
Considering what goeth before
And what followeth after

Miles Coverdale-died in 1569
None taken. Your question was... "And" and I gave you an answer. I'm sorry if it wasn't the answer you were looking for. Maybe you could be a little more specific?
 
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