The Water Baptism of 1 Corinthians 12:13

[dwight92070]

Okay, I'll add that to my list of what you believe. Please tell me how you disagree with the Church of Christ - other than no musical instruments in church.

To think that the thief on the cross did not live in the NT era is bizarre. All persons alive when Jesus was alive, lived in the NT era. Jesus' entire life, from birth to death to resurrection, is written in the NT. You're quite confused to think that all of the gospels were part of the Old Testament.
And yes, they did have baptism in the gospels - John 4:1. Originally just John the Baptist. When Jesus began His ministry, His disciples baptized those who became His disciples. But there's no mention in the gospels that baptism was a requirement for salvation, just as there's no mention of it being required for salvation after that.

So on the one hand, you said that there's no such thing as a deathbed conversion, but on the other hand you claim to have seen many on their deathbed lifted and taken to water to be baptized. So which is it?

If there's no such thing as a deathbed conversion, then those who were lifted and taken to water were not saved.

How many have you seen lifted and taken to water for baptism?

If the thief on the cross is not relevant to the NT follower of Christ, then why did God include it in the gospels?

 

[Doug Brents]

To think that the thief on the cross did not live in the NT era is bizarre. All persons alive when Jesus was alive, lived in the NT era. Jesus' entire life, from birth to death to resurrection, is written in the NT. You're quite confused to think that all of the gospels were part of the Old Testament.

No, I am not confused. Just because the books are included in the NT, does not make the events recorded in them part of the NT era. The Church (the Kingdom of God) is completely in the NT, and it did not start until after Jesus' death. All through the Gospels, the Church/Kingdom are coming, at hand, but still future.

Jesus lived His entire life under the Old Covenant, under the Law of Moses (Gal 4:4). It was with His blood that He redeemed us from the Law (Gal 3:13). The Law was not removed until it was fulfilled, which is when it was nailed to the cross with Christ (Col 2:14).

And yes, they did have baptism in the gospels - John 4:1. Originally just John the Baptist. When Jesus began His ministry, His disciples baptized those who became His disciples.

Baptism was a common practice in the first century. The fact that John came baptizing people was not what made him odd or different.

But there's no mention in the gospels that baptism was a requirement for salvation, just as there's no mention of it being required for salvation after that.

John 3:5 includes being born of water as a requirement to enter the Kingdom of God.

So on the one hand, you said that there's no such thing as a deathbed conversion, but on the other hand you claim to have seen many on their deathbed lifted and taken to water to be baptized. So which is it?

LOL, your idea of laying on the deathbed and saying they believe is not really a conversion. It is giving lip service in a hope that it constitutes "fire insurance". Just giving lip service to God is not salvation.

If the thief on the cross is not relevant to the NT follower of Christ, then why did God include it in the gospels?

The thief on the cross is relevant to the NT Christ follower, but not to our salvation.
The fact that Judas returned the 30 pieces of silver to the high priest isn't relevant to the salvation of the NT Christ follower either. But it is also in the Gospels.

 

[dwight92070]

You are mistaken. "But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you." The Kingdom of God was already there when Jesus said this. Jesus says that right here. Why do you deny that? Just like you deny other scripture. Jesus' entire life was the NT, not the OT.
Jesus did not live under the OT. He was born under the Law, but He did not live under the Law. He brought a New Law, the Law of Christ. Paul tells us that plainly.
Whether baptism was common place or not in the first century is irrelevant. I never said John was odd or different, nor does the NT. Also where does it say that baptism was common place then?
John 3:5 is speaking of being born physically (of water) and spiritually (of the spirit). That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. This IS THE CONTEXT, NOT WATER BAPTISM.
The requirement is physical birth, then spiritual birth. Water baptism is not even mentioned. No one can say they were saved in their mother's womb. They had to be born physically and then later spiritually to be saved.
Paul said, "However the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual." 1 Cor. 15:46
"Just as we have born the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly." Verse 49

As I have said, you believe it takes 2 to be saved, but in the case of dying people in nursing homes, it takes 3 or 4 to lift them to the water. But your God will condemn them to hell if they die before they make it to the water. The God of the Bible will accept their repentance and faith in Jesus, whether they make it to the water or not. Your God is legalistic. The God of the Bible "desires compassion, NOT a sacrifice, or attempting to get to the water. The story of Judas has everything to do with salvation. It shows that someone can follow Jesus for years and truly be saved, even performing miracles and preaching the gospel. Yet if they decide later to reject and turn against Jesus, they will lose their salvation.

 

[Doug Brents]

You are mistaken. "But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you." The Kingdom of God was already there when Jesus said this. Jesus says that right here. Why do you deny that? Just like you deny other scripture. Jesus' entire life was the NT, not the OT.
Jesus did not live under the OT. He was born under the Law, but He did not live under the Law. He brought a New Law, the Law of Christ. Paul tells us that plainly.

Jesus did not come to destroy or tear down the law (Matt 5:17-18); He came to fulfill its demands. And once He fulfilled those demands—with all that He did in His life and culminating in the Cross—the Old Covenant was completed and thus ended. Jesus ended the Old Covenant by fulfilling the Old Covenant law. The Law was still in effect until Jesus died on the cross, which is where He became the Passover sacrifice for us, He fulfilled the last of the requirements of the Law, and that is when He said, "It is finished!"

Whether baptism was common place or not in the first century is irrelevant. I never said John was odd or different, nor does the NT. Also where does it say that baptism was common place then?

Scripture doesn't say that it was common place, but history does. And Scripture takes it for granted; it doesn't explain baptism, but assumes that the reader knows what it is and what it means.

John 3:5 is speaking of being born physically (of water) and spiritually (of the spirit).

Jesus makes it clear that He is NOT talking about physical birth. Both water and the Spirit refer to REBIRTH. We are not reborn physically, only spiritually. Thus, both water and the Spirit refer to spiritual rebirth.

The requirement is physical birth, then spiritual birth. Water baptism is not even mentioned. No one can say they were saved in their mother's womb. They had to be born physically and then later spiritually to be saved.

Birth from the mother's womb is not in the picture here. Both water and Spirit are involved in REBIRTH, not natural birth.

The God of the Bible will accept their repentance and faith in Jesus, whether they make it to the water or not.

If they don't "make it to the water" then they don't have saving faith. Without action there is no faith.

The God of the Bible "desires compassion, NOT a sacrifice, or attempting to get to the water.

Where in Scripture can I find the part of this quote about attempting to get to the water?

The story of Judas has everything to do with salvation. It shows that someone can follow Jesus for years and truly be saved, even performing miracles and preaching the gospel. Yet if they decide later to reject and turn against Jesus, they will lose their salvation.

I agree that the story of Judas tells us these things. But I wasn't talking about the whole story of Judas. I only talked about his returning of the 30 pieces of silver to the high priest. That has nothing to do with our salvation. Yet it is in the Gospels. The thief on the cross has nothing to do with NT salvation, because he did not live in the NT era. He was promised salvation in the OT, while Jesus was alive and had the authority to change His will in any way He wanted (Heb 9:16-17). As this passage states, the New Covenant did not go into effect until Jesus (the testator) died.

 

[dwight92070]

Did the death of Jesus have any effect on all the sins committed under the Old Covenant? Of course it did, in fact Jesus' death cleansed the sins of all mankind who had faith all the way back to Adam and Eve - AND all the way up to His 2nd Coming. So you could say the benefit of the cross encompassed all of time - past, present, and future. Jesus Christ was slain from the foundation of the world. Rev.13:8

Another benefit of the cross was the New Covenant. Is it possible that the benefits of the New Covenant could be experienced before His death, just as His blood cleansed the sins of all who had faith BEFORE HE WAS CRUCIFIED?
What were the benefits of the New Covenant? We see them in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

1. "I will put My law within them (the Law of Christ - Gal.6:2) and on their heart I will write it; Jer.31:33
Did this happen to the disciples during Jesus' life time or did they have to wait until He died? Yes, it happened - No, they didn't have to wait.

Jesus spoke of His disciples when He said, "They have kept Your word". John 17:6; "for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me." John 17:8; "I have given them Your word" John 17:14 "They are not of this world, even as I am not of this world" John 17:14

2. "and I will be their God, and they shall be My people." Jer.31:33
Did this happen to the disciples during Jesus' lifetime? Yes!

"Thomas ... said to Him, 'My Lord and My God!' " John 20:28
Peter said, "by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ;" 2 Peter 1:1
Matthew said, "and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which ... means 'God with us.' " Matthew 1:23
John said that Jesus "was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God." John 5:18

"Who is My mother and who are My brothers? And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, 'Behold My mother and My brothers. For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother." Matthew 12:48-50
"But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep. To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear His voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice." John 10:2-4

3. "For they will all know Me" Jer.31:34
Did this happen to the disciples during Jesus' lifetime? Yes.

"I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me". John 10:14
"even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life. This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." John 17:2-3
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;" John 10:27

4. "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more." Jer.31:34
Did this happen to the disciples during Jesus' lifetime? Yes.

Jesus said to the paralytic, "Take courage son; your sins are forgiven." Matthew 9:2
Jesus said to the woman who wet His feet with her tears and wiped His feet with her hair - "Your sins have been forgiven." Luke 7:47
"But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth (obviously, during His lifetime) to forgive sins ..." Matthew 9:6
"Our Father ... forgive us our debts, as we also have been forgiven our debtors." Matthew 6:12
"Today salvation has come to this house, because he too is a son of Abraham. For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost." Obviously, Zaccheus' sins were forgiven. Luke 19:9-10

So ALL of the earmarks of the New Covenant were there during Jesus' lifetime. His death purchased or validated it, but it had already begun. The New Covenant would have no strength or force if Jesus had not died. But His death was a foregone conclusion, so it started when the Jesus said it did:
"For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John." Matthew 11:13
"The Law and the Prophets (were proclaimed) until John; since that time the gospel of the kingdom of God has been preached ..." Luke 16:16
Hebrews 9:16-17 The death of Christ was retroactive, that is forgiveness of sins, all the way back to Adam and Eve. So it is true with the New Covenant. It began when Jesus said it did: Mat.11:13 and Luke 16:16. This Hebrews passage is not and cannot be saying that the New Covenant cannot begin until Jesus' death. Rather it seems to be saying that if Jesus had not died for our sins, there would not have even been a New Covenant.
When Jesus said, "Repent for the the kingdom of God is at hand."(Mat.4:17), He was NOT saying it was 3 1/2 years later, He was saying, "It is NOW", just as close as your hand.
Again, this is why the 4 gospels are the first books of and in the New Covenant. They are New Covenant books, not Old Covenant books. Everything in them takes place during the New Covenant.

What about the Holy Spirit? Well, Jesus said that He cast out demons by the Spirit of God and therefore "the Kingdom of God has come upon you". Matthew 12:28 Jesus confirms again that the Kingdom of God WAS ALREADY THERE.
But how did the apostles cast out demons, when Jesus sent them out? Matthew 10:1 Yes, by the authority that Jesus gave them, but also by the Spirit of God.
"Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name ... Jesus said ... Do not hinder him ... Luke 9:49
How did this man cast out demons? In Jesus' name, by the Spirit of God.

So the Spirit of God was present and active during Jesus' lifetime, and NOT just in HIM alone - He was active in His 12 disciples and also in others who by faith, performed miracles. Mark 9:39

So, given this information, we know that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, which occurred 10 days after His ascension, was something other than what the disciples had already experienced in their performing of miracles during Jesus' lifetime. Or another possibility could be that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was available to ALL believers, whereas before Pentecost, the power of the Holy Spirit was given to just a few.

 

[Doug Brents]

Did the death of Jesus have any effect on all the sins committed under the Old Covenant? Of course it did, in fact Jesus' death cleansed the sins of all mankind who had faith all the way back to Adam and Eve - AND all the way up to His 2nd Coming. So you could say the benefit of the cross encompassed all of time - past, present, and future. Jesus Christ was slain from the foundation of the world. Rev.13:8

This is obvious in Scripture. But it is completely irrelevant to the conversation.

Another benefit of the cross was the New Covenant. Is it possible that some of the benefits of the New Covenant could be experienced before His death, just as His blood cleansed the sins of all who had faith BEFORE HE WAS CRUCIFIED?

Because here is where you make your error. Just because the blood of Christ cleanses everyone (past, present, and future) who has faith in Christ doesn't mean that the benefits (or the requirements) of the New Covenant also go back into the time of the Old Covenant. There is a clear distinction between the OT era and the NT era, and between the requirements of the OT and those of the NT.

What were the benefits of the New Covenant? We see them in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

1. "I will put My law within them (the Law of Christ - Gal.6:2) and on their heart I will write it; Jer.31:33
Did this happen to the disciples during Jesus' life time or did they have to wait until He died? Yes, it happened - No, they didn't have to wait.

Jesus spoke of His disciples when He said, "They have kept Your word". John 17:6; "for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me." John 17:8; "I have given them Your word" John 17:14 "They are not of this world, even as I am not of this world" John 17:14

It is not until after Jesus' death and resurrection that they truly understood the words that He gave to them (Luke 24:8). Yes, before His death they understood that He came from God, but they did not fully understand all of what the Scriptures meant, or how Jesus would fulfill them until AFTER His death and resurrection when He opened their minds and filled them with the Holy Spirit's understanding.

2. "and I will be their God, and they shall be My people." Jer.31:33
Did this happen to the disciples during Jesus' lifetime? Yes!

This was a tenant of the OT as well (Exodus 6:7, Jeremiah 30:22, and Ezekiel 37:27).

3. "For they will all know Me" Jer.31:34
Did this happen to the disciples during Jesus' lifetime? Yes.

"I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me". John 10:14
"even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life. This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." John 17:2-3
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;" John 10:27

God was the shepherd of the nation of Israel long before the coming of Jesus (Psalm 80:1, Gen 48:15).

4. "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more." Jer.31:34
Did this happen to the disciples during Jesus' lifetime? Yes.

Jesus said to the paralytic, "Take courage son; your sins are forgiven." Matthew 9:2
Jesus said to the woman who wet His feet with her tears and wiped His feet with her hair - "Your sins have been forgiven." Luke 7:47
"But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth (obviously, during His lifetime) to forgive sins ..." Matthew 9:6
"Our Father ... forgive us our debts, as we also have been forgiven our debtors." Matthew 6:12
"Today salvation has come to this house, because he too is a son of Abraham. For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost." Obviously, Zaccheus' sins were forgiven. Luke 19:9-10

Again, this is a function of the Blood of Jesus coursing through time both forward and backward from His death.

So ALL of the earmarks of the New Covenant were there during Jesus' lifetime. His death purchased or validated it, but it had already begun.

Not so. As Heb 9:16-17 so clearly tells us, a covenant is not in force until there is a death that empowers it. A human will does not have any power as long as the person who wrote it is still alive. It only has power after he dies, and then it cannot be changed or abrogated. This is what the writer of Hebrews is saying about the New Covenant between God and man. It was initiated by the shed blood of Jesus. It was not in effect until He died. It was not in effect when He promised paradise to the thief. It was not in effect when Jesus forgave sin during His ministry. It was not in effect when Jesus was born. It was only in effect after He died (and it could be argued that it did not start until He was resurrected, which demonstrated His authenticity (1 Cor 15:13-14 (but that is a discussion for another thread)).

The New Covenant would have no strength or force if Jesus had not died. But His death was a foregone conclusion, so it started when the Jesus said it did:
"For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John." Matthew 11:13

Just because John was the last prophet of the OT doesn't mean that the OT ended with him.

"The Law and the Prophets (were proclaimed) until John; since that time the gospel of the kingdom of God has been preached ..." Luke 16:16

The gospel of the Kingdom of God (which was still "at hand") was preached. The Kingdom of God was still future until Jesus' death.

When Jesus said, "Repent for the the kingdom of God is at hand."(Mat.4:17), He was NOT saying it was 3 1/2 years later, He was saying, "It is NOW", just as close as your hand.

Not so. He was saying it was coming soon, but not here yet. The end of time is at hand now, and it has been at hand since 70AD. There is nothing for which we are still waiting that must happen before the Lord comes again. He could come before you finish reading this sentence, or He could delay coming for another 10,000 years. But His coming is at hand (James 5:8).

Again, this is why the 4 gospels are the first books of and in the New Covenant. They are New Covenant books, not Old Covenant books. Everything in them takes place during the New Covenant.

Wrong. Only the last chapter or two of each of the Gospels takes place in the New Covenant era (only that part after Jesus' death).

What about the Holy Spirit? Well, Jesus said that He cast out demons by the Spirit of God and therefore "the Kingdom of God has come upon you". Matthew 12:28 Jesus confirms again that the Kingdom of God WAS ALREADY THERE.
But how did the apostles cast out demons, when Jesus sent them out? Matthew 10:1 Yes, by the authority that Jesus gave them, but also by the Spirit of God.
"Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name ... Jesus said ... Do not hinder him ... Luke 9:49
How did this man cast out demons? In Jesus' name, by the Spirit of God.

So the Spirit of God was present and active during Jesus' lifetime, and NOT just in HIM alone - He was active in His 12 disciples and also in others who by faith, performed miracles. Mark 9:39

The Holy Spirit has been active in the world since Creation. The only thing that changed with His interaction with us is that under the NC He dwells within our hearts (we are His temple), where under the OC He did not dwell within the hearts of His people.

So, given this information, we know that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, which occurred 10 days after His ascension, was something other than what the disciples had already experienced in their performing of miracles during Jesus' lifetime.

This is certainly true, but has no bearing on what we have been discussing.

 

[TomL]

The NASB translates it as "various washings". The KJV says "diverse washings". I think that is a better understanding of the word in Hebrews 9:10, i.e. washings, not baptisms, even though the Greek word is baptismos, which is a dipping or washing. Every verse that I see in the Old Testament that has to do with washing, seems to be just that - a washing of dirt from the body. The Israelites had to wash their clothes before God spoke to them from Mt. Sinai. Again, I don't see any baptisms that resemble New Testament baptism in the Old Covenant.

However, it seems to me that this is getting off on a rabbit trail. The OP was about 1 Cor. 12:13 and Seabass said that water baptism was referred to here and that it IS necessary for salvation. I totally disagree. I believe 1 Cor. 12:13 refers to being "immersed" into the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit, which requires no water, just a repentant heart and faith in Jesus. This is baptism is synonymous with salvation, so it cannot be the same baptism that Jesus refers to in Acts 1:5, since all 120 persons in the upper room were already saved, which included the 12 apostles, with Matthias replacing Judas. That baptism was performed by Jesus Himself, according to John the Baptist who said that He (Jesus) would baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Again, no water was necessary, rather Jesus immerses us into the Holy Spirit.

Only 1 person with a repentant heart and faith in Jesus is required for salvation to occur.
However 2 people are required for salvation to occur, if the Church of Christ doctrine is correct, which I don't believe it is. One person to be a candidate for salvation and a 2nd person to baptize them.
So which does the Bible require for salvation to happen? 2 people or 1 person?

Note baptizo can be and is translated wash

Mark 7:4 (LEB) — 4 And when they come from the marketplace, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions which they have received and hold fast to—for example, the washing of cups and pitchers and bronze kettles and dining couches.)

Luke 11:38 (LEB) — 38 And the Pharisee, when he saw it, was astonished that he did not first wash before the meal.

 

[Behold]

To deny there is one baptism that saves, (or deny any of the "ones" of Eph 4:4-5) is to deny the very foundation of Christianity itself.

There is one baptism that saves and its "by my Spirit, sayeth the Lord".......and that is not water baptism.

 

[Doug Brents]

There is one baptism that saves and its "by my Spirit, sayeth the Lord".......and that is not water baptism.

That is an inaccurately applied quote, leading to an erroneous conclusion. The one baptism (Eph 4:5) that results in salvation (Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16) requires water (1 Pet 3:21, Acts 8:36, John 3:5).

 

[TomL]

That is an inaccurately applied quote, leading to an erroneous conclusion. The one baptism (Eph 4:5) that results in salvation (Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16) requires water (1 Pet 3:21, Acts 8:36, John 3:5).

sorry the context of

Ephesians 4:4–7 (UASV) — 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. 7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.

Shows it is the one Spirit

1 Corinthians 12:13 (UASV) — 13 For by one spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink one spirit.


The Spirit gives life not water

Water without the spirit does nothing but get you wet

 

[Doug Brents]

sorry the context of

Ephesians 4:4–7 (UASV) — 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. 7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.

Shows it is the one Spirit

1 Corinthians 12:13 (UASV) — 13 For by one spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink one spirit.


The Spirit gives life not water

Water without the spirit does nothing but get you wet

I agree that the water without the Spirit only gets one wet. But as John 3:5, 1 Pet 3:21, Acts 22:16, Acts 8:36, and other passages indicate, the Spirit does not cleanse us without the application of water in baptism. As we established long ago, it is not the water, but the Holy Spirit that saves while we are in the water.

 

[mailmandan]

sorry the context of

Ephesians 4:4–7 (UASV) — 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. 7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.

Shows it is the one Spirit

1 Corinthians 12:13 (UASV) — 13 For by one spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink one spirit.

The Spirit gives life not water

Water without the spirit does nothing but get you wet

Amen! Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. *Also see John 4:10,14; 7:37-39 for the word drink(s) and see the connection with the Holy Spirit.

False religion always turns symbols and shadows of our salvation into the substance and the source.

 

[Fred]

Amen! Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. *Also see John 4:10,14; 7:37-39 for the word drink(s) and see the connection with the Holy Spirit.

False religion always turns symbols and shadows of our salvation into the substance and the source.

True.

 

[Fred]

Amen! Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. *Also see John 4:10,14; 7:37-39 for the word drink(s) and see the connection with the Holy Spirit.

False religion always turns symbols and shadows of our salvation into the substance and the source.

Doug presents a heretical view of salvation which makes him a heretic.
His poisonous teaching leads him to deny Cornelius and the other Gentiles with him were saved before their water baptism. He denigrates the Holy Spirit because he does not possess the Holy Spirit.

 

[Doug Brents]

Doug presents a heretical view of salvation which makes him a heretic.
His poisonous teaching leads him to deny Cornelius and the other Gentiles with him were saved before their water baptism. He denigrates the Holy Spirit because he does not possess the Holy Spirit.

Gossip does not become someone who claims to be a follower of Christ.

And your conclusions about me are completely inaccurate.

 

[Fred]

Gossip does not become someone who claims to be a follower of Christ.

And your conclusions about me are completely inaccurate.

It's not gossip. It is posted here for you to read as well. Your heresy has been refuted more than once.

So quit playing the sissy victim game.

 

[Doug Brents]

It's not gossip. It is posted here for you to read as well. Your heresy has been refuted more than once.

So quit playing the sissy victim game.

Gossip does not require that it be behind the subject's back.

And while you have convinced yourselves that I am heretical, you have not proven it by Scripture as I have shown.
By the way, heresy only means that an idea is contrary the commonly accepted beliefs of the day; it does not mean that it is wrong. Jesus was a heretic in His day, but He, being God, was correct in everything He taught. While you subscribe to the commonly accepted belief that pervades the Church today, you are on the wrong side of this doctrine. And I pray that your heart be opened to the truth.

 

[Fred]

Gossip does not require that it be behind the subject's back.

Go ahead and explain how I engaged in gossip.

Definition of GOSSIP

godparent; companion, crony; a person who habitually reveals personal or sensational facts about others… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[Fred]

And while you have convinced yourselves that I am heretical, you have not proven it by Scripture as I have shown.

Then you don't give an example. On and on you argue like this. It's pathetic.

 

[TomL]

Amen! Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. *Also see John 4:10,14; 7:37-39 for the word drink(s) and see the connection with the Holy Spirit.

False religion always turns symbols and shadows of our salvation into the substance and the source.

Yes The Spirit is the substance and the source.