The Water Baptism of 1 Corinthians 12:13

[Doug Brents]

Um you denied the verse posted

Acts 11:15–17 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 Therefore if God gave them the same gift as also to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to hinder God?”

What Peter saw reminded him of Christ's promise to baptize with the Spirit

It did, and what was seen was miraculous empowerment. Baptism "en" the Holy Spirit cannot be seen, so there would be nothing for Peter to see. What he saw was the Spirit giving miraculous empowerment as a sign to the Jews, not salvation, and not baptism "en" the Spirit.

They received the Spirit

The gift of the Spirit which is mentioned in Acts 2:38 which you hold speaks of the indwelling

The gift of the Spirit is not always the indwelling. Acts 2:38 is not necessarily speaking of the indwelling. In our case today, where miraculous signs are no longer needed, it refers to the indwelling, but in the first century it referred to both the indwelling and more prominently to miraculous signs. What was received by Cornelius when the Spirit fell on him was miraculous signs. What the Samaritans received when Paul laid hands on them was miraculous signs. These are not baptism "en" the Spirit, and they have NOTHING to do with the salvation of the people involved. Both of them were saved when they were baptized in water (one before and the other after receiving miraculous empowerment).

Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:45 (LEB) — 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles,

You need to stop denying scripture

I have not denied any Scripture. I have simply interpreted it differently (and more correctly) than you.

And that men have received the gift of the Spirit (Acts 2:38 again and your position this includes the indwelling.)

Acts 10:45–46 (LEB) — 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, 46 for they heard them speaking in tongues and glorifying God. Then Peter said,

tongues were evidence they had received that promise

Your theology is contrary to scripture

No, speaking in tongues is not evidence that they had received salvation.

Sorry scripture states they had not received the spirit. If they were indwelt, they would have received the spirit.

Again your claims are contrary to scripture

Being indwelt is indeed "receiving the Spirit", but it is not the only way in which the Spirit is received. And miraculous empowerment does not require salvation.

You appear to be contradicting yourself now
You had previously stated men are baptized en the Spirit during water baptism and that the water by itself just makes wet

so it must be the baptism en the spirit that saves

And your position is in tatters

Yes, baptism "en" the Holy Spirit (which happens only during water baptism) is what saves. Not miraculous empowerment, and not "belief only". My position is pure and has suffered no harm whatsoever from your assault. No tatters here.

 

[JLB]

Additionally

Matthew 20:22–23 (KJV 1900) — 22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. 23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

Mark 10:38–39 (LEB) — 38 But Jesus said to them, “You do not know what you are asking! Are you able to drink the cup that I drink, or to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?” 39 And they said to him, “We are able.” So Jesus said to them, “You will drink the cup that I drink, and you will be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with,

Yes, Jesus was showing them the price they would pay for sitting next to him on thrones.


The suffering that comes with great position and authority.


So many want to be crowned, but few are willing to pay the price.


When the Lord wanted to make David a king, He didn’t offer a crown but instead David was given a giant.

 

[JLB]

The indwelling of the Spirit is received at the instant of salvation, which is why the Samaritans, Cornelius, etc. received it during water baptism.

Cornelius received it at water baptism???

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
Acts 10:44-48

• because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.

This occurred apart from water baptism, just as the Samaritan’s as well as the day of Pentecost.


Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:14-17

• they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

• Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

 

[Doug Brents]

Cornelius received it at water baptism???

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.

And what did they receive when the Spirit fell ON (not into) them? They received tongues and praise; miraculous empowerment, not indwelling.

And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
Acts 10:44-48

• because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.

This occurred apart from water baptism, just as the Samaritan’s as well as the day of Pentecost.

And that shows that it was not the indwelling of the Spirit that is in view here. Because to receive the indwelling, which is received upon salvation, requires both the Spirit AND water, as John 3:5 and 1 Pet 3:21 tell us.

Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:14-17

• they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

• Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

They had already been baptized into Christ, and so they already had the indwelling of the Spirit. But they had not received any miraculous empowerment by the Spirit, and when the Apostles laid hands on them that is what they received.

 

[JLB]

And what did they receive when the Spirit fell ON (not into) them? They received tongues and praise; miraculous empowerment, not indwelling.

And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:4

 

[Doug Brents]

And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:4

And many of those in the OT were "filled" with the Holy Spirit, but no one was indwelt by Him until after Jesus was glorified (John 7:39).

 

[dwight92070]

And you think this refers to a salvation event? No, the Apostles had already received salvation, and the indwelling of the Spirit (John 20:22). So the baptism of the Holy Spirit mentioned here does not equate to salvation. It only refers to the reception of miraculous empowerment.

I agree.

Again, only indicating miraculous empowerment, not salvation/indwelling.

Wrong. Cornelius and his household were not already saved like the 120 were when they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. So when the Holy Spirit fell on them they were both saved and given the baptism of the Spirit at the same time. We know this because they were eager to hear Peter's message and receive it and when he preached to them, they had great faith in Jesus, which the Holy Spirit knew and therefore fell on them with salvation and the baptism of the Holy Spirit at the same time. We know they were saved at that time, because Peter commanded that they be baptized, with is what all newly saved people should do.

Miraculous empowerment, not salvation.

I agree.

Again, miraculous empowerment, not salvation.

Wrong, the Holy Spirit is not going to fall on them, UNLESS they have first been born again.

 

[Doug Brents]

Wrong. Cornelius and his household were not already saved like the 120 were when they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. So when the Holy Spirit fell on them they were both saved and given the baptism of the Spirit at the same time.

Nope. The two are not connected. Cornelius did not need to be saved in order for the Holy Spirit to empower them. He empowered a donkey (Num 22:22-35), He can empower rocks (Matt 3:9-10), He can empower

We know this because they were eager to hear Peter's message and receive it and when he preached to them, they had great faith in Jesus, which the Holy Spirit knew and therefore fell on them with salvation and the baptism of the Holy Spirit at the same time. We know they were saved at that time, because Peter commanded that they be baptized, with is what all newly saved people should do.

This conclusion does not fit with all Scripture. John 3:5 says that to enter the Kingdom of God they (and everyone else as well) need to be born again of both water and the Spirit. If they had only received the Spirit, then they were not born again. 1 Pet 3:21 says that it is through water baptism that we receive salvation. In order for this to be fulfilled, the Holy Spirit falling on Cornelius would not save him. You are trying to make Scripture fit your preconceptions, but it is your preconceptions that must change to fit what Scripture says.

Wrong, the Holy Spirit is not going to fall on them, UNLESS they have first been born again.

Where is that stated in Scripture? That is just your personal conclusion, that is not supported by Scripture at all.

 

[TomL]

Yes, Jesus was showing them the price they would pay for sitting next to him on thrones.


The suffering that comes with great position and authority.


So many want to be crowned, but few are willing to pay the price.


When the Lord wanted to make David a king, He didn’t offer a crown but instead David was given a giant.

Yes, it was not an easy baptism

 

[TomL]

It did, and what was seen was miraculous empowerment. Baptism "en" the Holy Spirit cannot be seen, so there would be nothing for Peter to see. What he saw was the Spirit giving miraculous empowerment as a sign to the Jews, not salvation, and not baptism "en" the Spirit.

You are in denial text as I had noted

Acts 10:44–47 (LEB) — 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all those who were listening to the message. 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, 46 for they heard them speaking in tongues and glorifying God. Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as we also did!”

That they spoke is tongues was an observable fact

It was the baptism en the holy Ghost


Acts 11:15–16 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

Peter had evidence they were baptized en the spirit
further they had received the same gift as those in the verse you love to quote

Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:45 (LEB) — 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles,


Let it be noted your position holds that the gift of the spirit in acts 2:38 includes the indwelling

The gentiles received the same gift

Acts 10:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Acts 11:17 (KJV 1900) — 17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?


Same gift and evidenced by


Acts 10:46 (LEB) — 46 for they heard them speaking in tongues and glorifying God. Then Peter said,

Additionally we have your confession that baptism with water is inseparable from the baptism of the Holy Ghost

It should now be obvious you are in error

We also have your other confession that water baptism without the working of the spirit (the baptism en the spirit) only gets you wet

 

[TomL]

And you think this refers to a salvation event? No, the Apostles had already received salvation, and the indwelling of the Spirit (John 20:22). So the baptism of the Holy Spirit mentioned here does not equate to salvation. It only refers to the reception of miraculous empowerment.

Again, only indicating miraculous empowerment, not salvation/indwelling.

Miraculous empowerment, not salvation.

Again, miraculous empowerment, not salvation.

Then it only refers to salvation, and the cases you point out above are not baptism "en" the Holy Spirit.

do not stray from the point

What did Jesus state?

Acts 1:4–5 (LEB) — 4 And while he was with them, he commanded them, “Do not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for what was promised by the Father, which you heard about from me. 5 For John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

What did Peter state

Acts 11:15–16 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

The gentiles were baptized en the spirit

and tongues was the evidence of both

Acts 2:1–4 (LEB) — 1 And when the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in the same place. 2 And suddenly a sound like a violent rushing wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And divided tongues like fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other languages as the Spirit gave them ability to speak out.


Acts 10:45–46 (LEB) — 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, 46 for they heard them speaking in tongues and glorifying God. Then Peter said,

BTW I have never stated or implied the baptism en the Holy ghost only refers to miraculous empowerment

The point is the gentiles were baptised en the spirit as evidenced by the speaking in tongues

We have had your confession that water baptism and the baptism en the spirit are inseparable

Well that is your first error here

You also stated that water baptism without an act of the spirit just gets you wet

Seeing as you argued for a joining of the baptisms saying they are inseparable

The act of the spirit must be the baptism en the spirit

And seeing as water only gets you wet

It is the baptism en the spirit which saves, that is purifies the heart and gives life

Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Acts 15:7–9 (KJV 1900) — 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

 

[Doug Brents]

You are in denial text as I had noted

Acts 10:44–47 (LEB) — 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all those who were listening to the message. 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, 46 for they heard them speaking in tongues and glorifying God. Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as we also did!”

That they spoke is tongues was an observable fact

It was the baptism en the holy Ghost

An observable fact denotes miraculous empowerment, not the indwelling of the Spirit (baptism "en" the Spirit).

Acts 11:15–16 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

Peter had evidence they were baptized en the spirit
further they had received the same gift as those in the verse you love to quote

Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:45 (LEB) — 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles,

I love to quote hundreds of passages of Scripture. concerning many topics. And on this topic, Acts 2:38 is a very important passage. And as has already been noted, the gift of the Holy Spirit noted in these three passages is referring to miraculous empowerment, not to the indwelling of the Spirit.

Let it be noted your position holds that the gift of the spirit in acts 2:38 includes the indwelling

Yes, it can. When a person is baptized in water into Jesus Christ that person receives forgiveness of sin and the indwelling of the Spirit. But as we see with the people baptized by Philip in Acts 8, they received the indwelling of the Spirit when they were baptized, but did not receive miraculous empowerment until the Apostles laid hands on them. The same situation occurred in Acts 19 with the disciples whom Paul baptized and then laid hands on. The reverse happened in Acts 10 with Cornelius who received miraculous empowerment from the Spirit before he received the indwelling when he was baptized into Christ.

The gentiles received the same gift

Acts 10:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Acts 11:17 (KJV 1900) — 17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

As noted above, the Gentiles received miraculous empowerment (tongues and praise) when the Spirit fell on them in power. And then they received the indwelling (baptism "en" the Spirit) when they were baptized in water.

Additionally we have your confession that baptism with water is inseparable from the baptism of the Holy Ghost

It should now be obvious you are in error

Nope, no error in that statement.

We also have your other confession that water baptism without the working of the spirit (the baptism en the spirit) only gets you wet

Again, no error there.

 

[TomL]

An observable fact denotes miraculous empowerment, not the indwelling of the Spirit (baptism "en" the Spirit).

You are denying texts once again


Acts 10:44–47 (LEB) — 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all those who were listening to the message. 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, 46 for they heard them speaking in tongues and glorifying God. Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as we also did!”

That they spoke is tongues was an observable fact

It was the baptism en the holy Ghost

Acts 11:15–16 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

And it was the same as what was promised here

Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

compare


Acts 10:45 (LEB) — 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles,


and your position is that gift included the indwelling

making your position inconsistent

BTW we know it was the baptism en the holy ghost because

Acts 10:46 (LEB) — 46 for they heard them speaking in tongues and glorifying God. Then Peter said,


And then of course we have your confession that the baptism with water and with the holy ghost is inseparable

yet another inconsistency

There was no water baptism in Acts 2:1-4

And that baptism with water without the Holy Ghost just gets you wet


so it is the baptism en the spirit which actually saves contrary to your refuted position (yet another inconsistency in your position)

and that is what we see in scripture

Acts 15:8–9 (LEB) — 8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he also did to us. 9 And he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.


so deal with the inconsistencies within your stated position

 

[Doug Brents]

You are denying texts once again


Acts 10:44–47 (LEB) — 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all those who were listening to the message. 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, 46 for they heard them speaking in tongues and glorifying God. Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as we also did!”

That they spoke is tongues was an observable fact

It was the baptism en the holy Ghost

Yes, that they spoke in tongues is an observable fact, which denotes miraculous empowerment (a visible manifestation of the Spirit), not indwelling of the Spirit (which is completely invisible and internal).

Acts 11:15–16 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

And it was the same as what was promised here

Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:45 (LEB) — 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles,

Yes, these contain the same words, and so you insinuate that they mean the same thing, and they do (for the most part). But they do NOT refer to "baptism "en" the Spirit which is the indwelling of the Spirit; they refer to the miraculous empowerment that the Spirit gave them in the first century.

and your position is that gift included the indwelling

No, that is NOT my position. The indwelling is received during water baptism, just as John 3:5 and 1 Pet 3:21 state.

BTW we know it was the baptism en the holy ghost because

Acts 10:46 (LEB) — 46 for they heard them speaking in tongues and glorifying God. Then Peter said,

That is your interpretation colored by your preconception. It is not TRUTH! Speaking in tongues is NOT evidence of salvation/indwelling of the Spirit. Balaam's donkey is evidence that the gift of tongues can be given to the unsaved (donkeys having no soul to save in the first place).

And then of course we have your confession that the baptism with water and with the holy ghost is inseparable

yet another inconsistency

There was no water baptism in Acts 2:1-4

That is not inconsistent with anything. Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14, John 3:5, 1 Pet 3:21 and other passages all state that baptism (in water) in addition to the action of the Spirit are necessary to receive salvation.

so it is the baptism en the spirit which actually saves contrary to your refuted position (yet another inconsistency in your position)

You have improperly defined "baptism 'en' the Spirit". Baptism "en" the Spirit does not include receiving miraculous empowerment of the Spirit (although that can be one of the gifts which He gives to those who have been baptized "en" the Spirit). Baptism "en" the Spirit is the same as salvation, the indwelling of the Spirit, being reborn of the Spirit, being "in Christ". Baptism "en" the Spirit and the miraculous gifts of the Spirit are not mutually inclusive.

No one today has miraculous gifts (as far as I can determine) yet everyone who is in Christ has the indwelling of the Spirit.

In the first century, we have many stories of different groups receiving one but not the other (Acts 8, 10, 19), which demonstrates that even then they were not mutually inclusive.

and that is what we see in scripture

Acts 15:8–9 (LEB) — 8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he also did to us. 9 And he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

Their hearts were cleansed when they demonstrated their faith in obedience to the Gospel. They were not cleansed by the Spirit falling on them in miraculous power.

so deal with the inconsistencies within your stated position

There are none.

 

[TomL]

Yes, that they spoke in tongues is an observable fact, which denotes miraculous empowerment (a visible manifestation of the Spirit), not indwelling of the Spirit (which is completely invisible and internal).

Yes, these contain the same words, and so you insinuate that they mean the same thing, and they do (for the most part). But they do NOT refer to "baptism "en" the Spirit which is the indwelling of the Spirit; they refer to the miraculous empowerment that the Spirit gave them in the first century.

You are ignoring facts and separating related paragraphs

Acts 10:44–47 (LEB) — 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all those who were listening to the message. 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, 46 for they heard them speaking in tongues and glorifying God. Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as we also did!”

That they spoke is tongues was an observable fact

It was the baptism en the holy Ghost as Peters words show

Acts 11:15–16 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

We see the association of tongues and the baptism en the holy ghost along with the promise of the Father

Acts 1:4–5 (LEB) — 4 And while he was with them, he commanded them, “Do not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for what was promised by the Father, which you heard about from me. 5 For John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

associating the baptism en the holy ghost and the promise of the father

On the day of pentecost

Acts 2:1–4 (LEB) — 1 And when the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in the same place. 2 And suddenly a sound like a violent rushing wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And divided tongues like fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other languages as the Spirit gave them ability to speak out.

We have the fulfillment of the baptism en the holy ghost and its association with tongues

now regarding the promise of the father we have

Ezekiel 36:26–27 (LEB) — 26 And I will give a new heart to you, and a new spirit I will give into your inner parts, and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh, and I will give to you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will give my spirit into your inner parts, and I will make it so that you will go in my rules, and my regulations you will remember, and you will do them.

and

Joel 2:28–29 (LEB) — 28 And it will happen afterward thus: I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy, and your elders will dream dreams; your young men shall see visions. 29 And also on the male slaves and on the female slaves, I will pour out my Spirit in those days.

end pt1

 

[TomL]

TomL said:
Acts 11:15–16 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

And it was the same as what was promised here

Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:45 (LEB) — 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles,

Yes, that they spoke in tongues is an observable fact, which denotes miraculous empowerment (a visible manifestation of the Spirit), not indwelling of the Spirit (which is completely invisible and internal).

Yes, these contain the same words, and so you insinuate that they mean the same thing, and they do (for the most part). But they do NOT refer to "baptism "en" the Spirit which is the indwelling of the Spirit; they refer to the miraculous empowerment that the Spirit gave them in the first century.

Lets see

Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:45 (LEB) — 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles,

The same words and

Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:47 (LEB) — 47 “Surely no one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as we also did!”

same reception of the spirit

And same gift

Acts 11:17 (LEB) — 17 Therefore if God gave them the same gift as also to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to hinder God?”

same giving of the Spirit


Acts 15:8 (LEB) — 8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he also did to us.

Scripture does not support your denial

BTW the gentiles had been baptized en the Spirit


Acts 11:15–16 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

end pt2

 

[Doug Brents]

You are ignoring facts and separating related paragraphs

Acts 10:44–47 (LEB) — 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all those who were listening to the message. 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, 46 for they heard them speaking in tongues and glorifying God. Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as we also did!”

That they spoke is tongues was an observable fact

Yes, it was an observable fact, and that means that it COULD NOT HAVE BEEN baptism "en" the Spirit (the indwelling of the Spirit).

It was the baptism en the holy Ghost as Peters words show

Acts 11:15–16 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

You are assuming that to be "baptized with the Spirit" equates to salvation/the indwelling of the Spirit. But there is NOTHING that states, indicates, or even hints at that supposition.

We see the association of tongues and the baptism en the holy ghost along with the promise of the Father

Acts 1:4–5 (LEB) — 4 And while he was with them, he commanded them, “Do not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for what was promised by the Father, which you heard about from me. 5 For John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

Again, you are assuming that to be "baptized with the Spirit" equates to salvation/the indwelling of the Spirit. But there is NOTHING that states, indicates, or even hints at that supposition.

now regarding the promise of the father we have

Ezekiel 36:26–27 (LEB) — 26 And I will give a new heart to you, and a new spirit I will give into your inner parts, and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh, and I will give to you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will give my spirit into your inner parts, and I will make it so that you will go in my rules, and my regulations you will remember, and you will do them.

Nothing here links the indwelling of the Spirit with miraculous empowerment. This is talking about the Spirit coming to indwell those who are in Christ, and giving them understanding of the Scriptures and the strength of Spirit to obey them.

Joel 2:28–29 (LEB) — 28 And it will happen afterward thus: I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy, and your elders will dream dreams; your young men shall see visions. 29 And also on the male slaves and on the female slaves, I will pour out my Spirit in those days.

This is referring to miraculous empowerment, and has no linkage to the indwelling of the Spirit.

 

[TomL]

No, that is NOT my position. The indwelling is received during water baptism, just as John 3:5 and 1 Pet 3:21 state.

Um

Do you really want to claim

Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

the gift of the holy spirit does not include the indwelling

it follows water baptism here

The same gift was seen here

Acts 10:45–46 (LEB) — 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, 46 for they heard them speaking in tongues and glorifying God. Then Peter said,

implied above

Confirmed here

Acts 11:15 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning.

Acts 10:47 (LEB) — 47 “Surely no one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as we also did!”

Note the Spirit was received

John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)

speaking of the indwelling


end pt3

 

[TomL]

TomL said:
We see the association of tongues and the baptism en the holy ghost along with the promise of the Father

Acts 1:4–5 (LEB) — 4 And while he was with them, he commanded them, “Do not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for what was promised by the Father, which you heard about from me. 5 For John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

Again, you are assuming that to be "baptized with the Spirit" equates to salvation/the indwelling of the Spirit. But there is NOTHING that states, indicates, or even hints at that supposition.

The promise of the Father concerning the spirit may be seen here

Ezekiel 36:26–27 (LEB) — 26 And I will give a new heart to you, and a new spirit I will give into your inner parts, and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh, and I will give to you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will give my spirit into your inner parts, and I will make it so that you will go in my rules, and my regulations you will remember, and you will do them.

the bolded portion speaks of the indwelling

and here

Joel 2:28–29 (LEB) — 28 And it will happen afterward thus: I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy, and your elders will dream dreams; your young men shall see visions. 29 And also on the male slaves and on the female slaves, I will pour out my Spirit in those days.


end pt 4

 

[TomL]

That is your interpretation colored by your preconception. It is not TRUTH! Speaking in tongues is NOT evidence of salvation/indwelling of the Spirit. Balaam's donkey is evidence that the gift of tongues can be given to the unsaved (donkeys having no soul to save in the first place).

read again I stated

TomL said:
BTW we know it was the baptism en the holy ghost because

Acts 10:46 (LEB) — 46 for they heard them speaking in tongues and glorifying God.

Now do you want to claim tongues is not a sign of the baptism en the holy Ghost?

Remember the baptism was promised right before the ascention of Christ (Acts 1:5)


We see tongues on the day of pentecost

Christ had ascended into heaven and was glorified

thereby

John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)

It was also time to fulfill the indwelling of those who believed

end pt5





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