James' Teaching On Justification: Before Men Or Before God?

[FreeInChrist]

2 Timothy 1:9-10
He has saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works, but by His own purpose and by the grace He granted us in Christ Jesus before time began. / And now He has revealed this grace through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has abolished death and illuminated the way to life and immortality through the gospel,

 

[Titus]

lol. Remember, at the point one saved, they are justified. The point that one is saved, is the point in faith they call out to jesus

That is the action required to be saved. to repent of your good works and your sin, and call out like the tax collector



Really?

Funny, we have been saying this since day one, yet you keep attacking us as if we do not believe this.



We are not saved by mere belief, I can believ something yet not trust that something.

We are saved BY GRACE through faith. NOT OF WORKS

lol. Here you go teaching works again.. Its all about you. and what you do. not about Christ and what he did.

Again, as you stated above true faith acts..

A child of God obeys God because they trust him. Not because like you they are trying to keep their salvation.

lol Notice how this user continues to leave pauls words out.

Romans 4, No works period
Romans 11. Grace alone. again, no works period
2 Tim 2. Again no works period
Titus 3. Not even our good works save us. But Gods mercy alone

Yes. Gods people act. BECAUSE they have faith.

and BECAUSE they have been born of God. made into a new creation. Sin is now poison to them, a Dog returns to his vomit because he is still a dog. A child of God is no longer a dog.

Oh if this user only trusted God.

We can be confident of this very thing, He who began a good work WILL COMPLETE IT.

As this user why he is not confident of this thing, and thinks he must complete it himself?



Yet you do. Not only do you do this. You mock God and his children. Shame on you

A work of merit is a work done to earn a reward. to merit a prize or wage.

When you claim you must do these works to get saved, stay saved or not lose salvation.

You are claiming you must do works of merit.

we do not work to merit anything, we work because GOD LOVED US, so WE IN TURN LOVE OTHERS



ok this use has a major reading problem

For it is by grace we have been saved.

the firs partt shows us it is grace that saved us. Grace is Gods unmerited favor. it can not be merited by wrks.

But God will not force it on us.

So we MUST receive it in faith (John 6, it is the work of God we believe) Faith is not a work of merit. because it is God who brought us to the point of faith he did the work. He gets all the glory (not a calvinistic way, we still had to in free will chose.

Then paul makes it clear

1. Salvation is not of our own doing
2. Not of works lest anyone should boast.

Can someone ask this user why he keeps boasting of his works. acting more like the pharisee pumping his chest. and not the tax collector (sinner) who fell on his knees?

lol.

Romans 4, Romans 11, 2 Tim 2, Titus 3, Eph 2, Eph 1.

How much more do we have to go.

Even Jesus did nto teach we had to be be water baptized to be saved.

Good God.

If this user wants to merit salvation by getting water baptized. I guess he is free to do this (we have free will)

those of us who Got baptized because we recieved the baptism only God can baptize us with, we know and understand the power of God

Mark 16:15-16,
- he that believeth and is baptized will be saved; he that believeth not will be danmed.
Jesus commands belief AND baptism to be saved.
The word and here means it joins to conditions together making them both conditional. That's the Greek use of and in Jesus' choice of words.
That's obedience in faith.
Faith that Acts saves.
Faith that believes alone is dead, James 2:24.
Deny Jesus is to deny what He taught.
You dont even have faith in Christ.
If you did you would believe what He said.

this is ridiculous. no one trusts in their faith.

You do. You trust in your faith alone. You teach this constantly.
If you trusted in Christ you would do what He says to do. Instead you trust in faith alone.

 

[Titus]

He has saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works

Quoting verses does not mean anything if you don't understand them.

Jesus chose to save us when we were wicked sinners and had no love for Himl
Perfect example, Acts 2.
Jesus died for all those Jews who hated Him. They crucified their Messiah.
Then Peter preached the gospel to them and they believed.
Then Peter told them to do the work of repentance and the work of baptism.
These are works of faith. Not works if merit.

So yes, Jesus choose to save the whole world not because of the good works we have done but because He loves all unconditionally.
He loves the most wicked, vile humans that ever lived.
Will he save those wicked who do not meet His conditions like belief in Him?
No, but He chose to save all because He loves everyone.

I've never taught the works themselves save.
Jesus saves.
But Jesus only saves those who obey Him.
His grace is conditional.
If not then unbelievers are going to be saved.

There is a big difference between the obedience of faith in Christ, Romans 16:26,
And faith in ones obedience to Christ.

Titus 3:4-5,
- for we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, DISOBEDIENT deceived serving divers lusts and pleasures living in malice and envy hateful and hating one another
- but after that the kindness and love of God our Savior toward man appeared
- not by works of righteousness which we have done but according to His MERCY He saved us by the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Spirit

Before we were obedient Christ chose to save us.
Only sinners need a Savior.
That's who Christ died for.
But will He save the disobedient?
No, God calls us to change our sinful ways.

The washing of regeneration is water baptism which is an act of obedience.
Did you know believing on Christ is an act of obedience? 1John 3:23-24.
You cannot be saved without obeying Jesus' gospel.

God choose to save way before we ever did works of righteousness.
Does that mean we can live in sinful disobedience and be saved?
No, Jesus calls all sinners to repentance,
Luke 5:32,
- I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance
So, the works we do, do not save by themselves.
But God will not gift His grace to those who rebel and refuse to do works of righteousness.
God is the Savior.

Another way to look at this is,
Even the good works alone apart from Jesus' blood cannot save anyone. AMEN.
Works dont save by themselves.
Jesus' grace doesn't save by itself, works like faith is required.
Faith alone apart from Jesus' shed blood doesnt save by itself.
Nothing saves by itself.

This is why I do not teach a works based salvation gospel.
Only saved by grace(Gods part) through faith(our part).

Acts 10:35,
- but in every nation he that feareth God and worketh righteousness is accepted by Him

No grace if no works but works apart from Grace are worthless.
Just as faith alone apart from obedience to God is worthless, James 2:24.

 

[Doug Brents]

2 Timothy 1:9-10
He has saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works, but by His own purpose and by the grace He granted us in Christ Jesus before time began. / And now He has revealed this grace through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has abolished death and illuminated the way to life and immortality through the gospel,

This passage tells us WHY God saves us. He saves us because of His own purpose. But He save through our actions, just as He cured Naaman because of His own purpose, but He cured Him through dipping in Jordan 7 times.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

It's not my gospel. I'm preaching what Jesus preaches.

If you taught what Jesus taught, you would teach that salvation was paid for on the cross. Not by your works.

The people who taught like you in Jesus day crucified him, because they got angy with him like you get angry with us

Matthew 7:21,
- not everyone that saith unto Me Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven but he that doeth(obedient works) the will of My Father in heaven

And?

When will you do the will of the father?

Again I'm not responsible for others like yourself carelessness in defining works
You pervert the gospel by teaching all works are merit. Jesus never taught this.

There you go bearing false witness again, You just can't help yourself.

I just posted showing there are works of merit and works of love. and showed the ddifference.

You are guilty of teaching good works must be repented of.

No. I am teaching DEAD works must be repented of. As written in the book of Hebrews, that we repent from dead works. and move to faith in God

Hebrews 6:1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Again, you bear false witness.

Proving all works in your false gospel is evil.

All works done to earn opr keep salvation are evil


They are done to promote self not God. The bible calls them dead works. Works of self righteousness. and bloody rags.

You call doing/obeying what Jesus said to do, evil.

Nope. you again bear false witness..

We both agree faith saves. So naturally I don't need to preach on faith.

You do not agree faith saves.. If you agreed faith saved, you would never talk about works except in the context of sanctification and serving a God who saved you

Since you reject the truth on obedient faith, that naturally is what I must teach.

lol. You reject the gospel. I would be more worried if I was you

You also attack and bear false witness against Gods people.

Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord..

I would worry about God and not little old me

Use some logic if your able, it will help you greatly.

I use logic. and logit tells everyone here. You do not understand what you are saying, and you continue to contradict yourself and lie about others

This is truly an evil religion.
To tell others they must repent of doing what God says to do.

Again, You bear false witness.

You should be ashamed of yourself. But sadly your pride runneth deep

This proves your gospel is salvation through disobedience to God.

yawn..

Strawman

What it proves is you believe you must work to earn salvation. and you do not know what true faith is,,

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Mark 16:15-16,
- he that believeth and is baptized will be saved; he that believeth not will be danmed.

I do not see the word water there.

I was baptized by God..

I am seriously doubting you were.. but I will nto judge

Jesus commands belief AND baptism to be saved.

No I already showed you so many passages which refute this

The word and here means it joins to conditions together making them both conditional. That's the Greek use of and in Jesus' choice of words.
That's obedience in faith.
Faith that Acts saves.
Faith that believes alone is dead, James 2:24.
Deny Jesus is to deny what He taught.
You dont even have faith in Christ.
If you did you would believe what He said.

Romans 5. John 3, John 4, John 5, John 6.

baptism is not mentioned once..

You do. You trust in your faith alone. You teach this constantly.

Once again, STOP BEARING FALSE WITNESS

I TRUST GOD..

YOU TRUST YOUR WORKS>

that is what seperates us

If you trusted in Christ you would do what He says to do. Instead you trust in faith alone.

Again, I do what jesus says, I was water baptised 6 months after I was born of God and spirit baptized.

You sir. break a ten command almost every post you make. i would suggest you repent before you try to teach others.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Quoting verses does not mean anything if you don't understand them.

Yet you do this day after day after day.

Practice what you preach!!

 

[Titus]

No. I am teaching DEAD works must be repented of. As written in the book of Hebrews, that we repent from dead works. and move to faith in God

Hebrews 6:1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Again, you bear false witness

You are such a liar.
You taught good works must be repented of.

That is the action required to be saved. to repent of your good works and your sin, and call out like the tax collector

Is there anything else you want to lie about so everyone can see how manipulative and deceitful you are?

btw, Hebrews is written to the saved. Not those who need to be saved.

 

[Doug Brents]

You are such a liar.
You taught good works must be repented of.

Is there anything else you want to lie about so everyone can see how manipulative and deceitful you are?

btw, Hebrews is written to the saved. Not those who need to be saved.

Let's quit the mud-slinging and discuss Scripture.

 

[Titus]

Let's quit the mud-slinging and discuss Scripture.

You have a problem calling out folks for who they are?
How will the fals teachers be exposed if they are not called out?

John 8:44-45,
- you are of your father the devil and the lusts of your father ye will do he was a murderer from the beginning and abode not in the truth because there is no truth in him when he speaketh of his own, for he is a liar and the father of it
- and because I tell you the truth ye believe Me not

Jesus called people what they were.
Bluntly, rebuking them.
I don't waste my time with reprobates that for years now have attacked my work in teaching the true gospel of Jesus Christ.
I'm only here to teach those who want to learn.
I'm not here to argue with the same false teachers over and over.
I dont want to hear from ET of Dan ever!!!!

They have chosen their path.
If you know of any other forums other than this one. Let me know as I'm looking for good soil.
Not interested in arguing year after year with the same rebellious hardened hearts.

4 baptisms recently into Christ.
That's who I want to have discussion with.
Too bad you cannot block folks on here.
I would have blocked these two along time ago.

Paul rebuked Peter publicly and Jesus rebuked publicly also.
Calling someone a child of the devil is as insulting as one could get.
Jesus taught and talked this way, therefore when nessary I will do the same.

I'm speaking what they are. They are lying about others.

What do you call someone who tells lies?
What do you call someone who steels?
What do you call someone who gossips?
What do you call someone who fornicates?
Did Paul call people by name publicly when they sinned?
That is our example.
If you don't like me calling these two out for their lying, libel against me.
Then you can leave also. I don't need folks who wont call out sin, when it's being practiced.

Well, what about running them off?
I hope they leave as they are a hindrance to the truth.
Get behind me satan.

Hopefully some day they will repent but that's not my problem.ive already taught them the truth. My job is done.
They already chose to reject the gospel for years.
They are wasting my precious time here on earth.

Titus 3:10-11,
- a man that is a heretick(harsh language) after the first and second admonition reject
- knowing that such is subverted and sinneth being condemned of himself

The Bible clearly teaches christians are not obligated to continue sparring with those that reject the truth.

 

[Doug Brents]

You have a problem calling out folks for who they are?
How will the false teachers be exposed if they are not called out?

Nope, I have no problem calling false teachers out on their false doctrines. But we must not stoop to name calling. It is enough to demonstrate their false doctrines, the fact that they are being lead by Satan and his minions, and that they are leading souls to Hell.

Keep the faith. They will see the error of their ways, either in this life (which I hope, since there will still be time for them to repent), or in eternity in Hell.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

You are such a liar.
You taught good works must be repented of.

post me saying these words. or prove you are a false accuser

Is there anything else you want to lie about so everyone can see how manipulative and deceitful you are?

btw, Hebrews is written to the saved. Not those who need to be saved.

Hebrews is written to the jews. Many who still needed to be saved.

You just poved you do not understand the word very well.. and manipulate the word to try to prove to yourself you are correct.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

You have a problem calling out folks for who they are?
How will the fals teachers be exposed if they are not called out?

Hey, we agree!!

thats why @mailmandan myself and others are calling you out

 

[FreeInChrist]

Quoting verses does not mean anything if you don't understand them.

I understand.

Jesus chose to save us when we were wicked sinners and had no love for Himl
Perfect example, Acts 2.
Jesus died for all those Jews who hated Him. They crucified their Messiah.
Then Peter preached the gospel to them and they believed.
Then Peter told them to do the work of repentance and the work of baptism.
These are works of faith. Not works if merit.

So yes, Jesus choose to save the whole world not because of the good works we have done but because He loves all unconditionally.
He loves the most wicked, vile humans that ever lived.
Will he save those wicked who do not meet His conditions like belief in Him?
No, but He chose to save all because He loves everyone.

I've never taught the works themselves save.
Jesus saves.
But Jesus only saves those who obey Him.
His grace is conditional.
If not then unbelievers are going to be saved.

There is a big difference between the obedience of faith in Christ, Romans 16:26,
And faith in ones obedience to Christ.

Titus 3:4-5,
- for we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, DISOBEDIENT deceived serving divers lusts and pleasures living in malice and envy hateful and hating one another
- but after that the kindness and love of God our Savior toward man appeared
- not by works of righteousness which we have done but according to His MERCY He saved us by the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Spirit

Before we were obedient Christ chose to save us.
Only sinners need a Savior.
That's who Christ died for.
But will He save the disobedient?
No, God calls us to change our sinful ways.

The washing of regeneration is water baptism which is an act of obedience.
Did you know believing on Christ is an act of obedience? 1John 3:23-24.
You cannot be saved without obeying Jesus' gospel.

God choose to save way before we ever did works of righteousness.
Does that mean we can live in sinful disobedience and be saved?
No, Jesus calls all sinners to repentance,
Luke 5:32,
- I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance
So, the works we do, do not save by themselves.
But God will not gift His grace to those who rebel and refuse to do works of righteousness.
God is the Savior.

Another way to look at this is,
Even the good works alone apart from Jesus' blood cannot save anyone. AMEN.
Works dont save by themselves.
Jesus' grace doesn't save by itself, works like faith is required.
Faith alone apart from Jesus' shed blood doesnt save by itself.
Nothing saves by itself.

This is why I do not teach a works based salvation gospel.
Only saved by grace(Gods part) through faith(our part).

Acts 10:35,
- but in every nation he that feareth God and worketh righteousness is accepted by Him

No grace if no works but works apart from Grace are worthless.
Just as faith alone apart from obedience to God is worthless, James 2:24.

 

[Titus]

Nope, I have no problem calling false teachers out on their false doctrines. But we must not stoop to name calling. It is enough to demonstrate their false doctrines, the fact that they are being lead by Satan and his minions, and that they are leading souls to Hell.

Keep the faith. They will see the error of their ways, either in this life (which I hope, since there will still be time for them to repent), or in eternity in Hell.

Name calling? Give scripture that it is wrong to call out a person for what they are?
Name calling is only sinful when the intent is for the wrong reasons.
Driven by pride.
Driven by hatred.
Mentioned to insult by mocking, making fun of someone to hurt them.

When name calling is accepted by God,
Rebuke, warning. To put fear in a person so that they will repent of their sins. To make them feel ashamed of their sin.
Some cannot feel ashamed. Those with hard hearts.
Ephesians 4:18-19,
- they are darkened in their understanding...having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity

Jesus called the Pharisees,
Hypocrites
Blind guides(Dan and ET)
Whitewashed tombs.
Sons of satan.
A dog was very, very, very, insulting to the ancient jews.
Paul named called,
False teachers, dogs.
False teachers, evil workers, Philippians 3:2.

Paul said not to cast your pearls before swine(pigs).
Ever called someone a filthy pig?
All of these names are good if they are truthful not slanderous.

Dan and ET are slanderers, libelous. Defamation.
Communicating false lies to hurt a persons good reputation.

Rebuke: a strong warning. Meant to stop a person from continuing in sin.
Matthew 16:23
- but He turned and  rebuked Peter saying Get behind Me satan, you are a hindrance to Me

Examples of hindrances.

Galatians 5:9,
- a little leaven leavens the whole lump
Mixing truth with error weakens and corrupts the message.
Teaching must remain pure and faithful to scripture.
Otherwise it misleads.

Fear of man(hindrance)
- for am I now seeking the approval of man or of God, Galatians 1:10.
Even if truth is taught some reject the gospel and harden their hearts against it.

Unwillness of the listener(Hindrance)
- They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to fables, 2Timothy 4:4
This is not the teachers fault.

Teaching truth is spiritual warfare,
Satan works to blind people and cause confusion.

2 Corinthians 4:4,
- the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers.

If others get involved in a mans personal ministry, and contradict what he is teaching,
It damages their credibility. Puts doubt in the minds of the hearers.
Dan and ET's work here. Big hindrance.
Acts 13:6-12,
- but Elymas the Sorcerer opposed them and tried to turn the proconsul away from the faith(gospel)
Paul rebuked him shaply!!!
- You are a child of the devil and an enemy of everything that is right

Hindrance.
Water downed teaching.
People want comfort not truth, John 17:17.
Tolerating false teaching.
- but I have this against you, that you tolerate that women Jezebel who calls herself a prophetess and teaching and seducing my servants, Revelation 2:20

Jesus rebukes a church for tolerating water down soft preaching,

 

[Titus]

You are such a liar.
You taught good works must be repented of

post me saying these words. or prove you are a false accuser

That is the action required to be saved. to repent of your good works and your sin, and call out like the tax collector

I won't be expecting an apology since you have no integrity.