Seabass
Active member
post 54
The Water Baptism of 1 Corinthians 12:13
- Thread starter Seabass
- Start date
post 55
This verse is not alone. The remission of sins is before baptism in water and baptism in water doesnt complete the salvation either.
Again..compare acts 2:38 with almost all of the book of John , which is about knowing you have eternal life. Baptism in water is barely there...and definitely not for receiving eternal life. Nicodemus talks about water of the womb..at birth. Jesus adds being born again by the Spirit. Jesus doesnt change the subject of water of birth to water of baptism, but just adds, continues it with someone later being born again by the Spirit.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Acts 3:19 shows that repentance MUST come BEFORE salvation is received. And in conjunction with Acts 2:38, where it says that both repentance and baptism are "for" forgiveness of sin, "for" MUST mean "in order to receive".
First: What is the purpose of what Paul is writing to the Church in Corinth? To put down divisions in the Church. And for that reason, Paul is glad that he did not baptize more of them, or he would be more of a reason (in their minds) of that division.
Second: Paul was out to spread the Seed of the Gospel. He was not out to reap the harvest. There were some, obviously, who did come as a harvest immediately upon his sowing (Crispus, Gaius, and the household of Stephanas), but he knew that others (Apollos, Cephas, and others) would later come to water and/or reap. But his mission was to plant the Seed that God could bring to an increase.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Sorry, but you are taking away from the Word of God.
Mark 16:16
John 3:5
Acts 2:38
Acts 8:36
Acts 22:16
Rom 6:1-4
Col 2:11-14
Eph 5:25-27
1 Pet 3:21
All of these passages tell us that baptism (in water) leads to forgiveness of sin, salvation, justification, union with Christ Jesus, etc. It is during water baptism that we are united with Jesus' death and resurrection.
An assertion like the above ought to be backed up with proof.
Your refusal to do so concerning John 3:5 demonstrates the failure of your assertion.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
The Bible is its own best commentary. The proof of my assertion is in the combination of all of those passages.
Mark 16:16 says that only those who believe the Gospel and are baptized into Christ will be saved. I did not include in the list Matt 28:19, but it is another account of what Jesus said in Mark 16:16. And in it Jesus gives the instruction to the Apostles to go, make disciples, and baptize them. If baptizing is an act that the teacher does (not that the Spirit does), then this is a reference to water baptism, not Spirit baptism.
John 3:5 says that a person must be born of water and Spirit to enter the Kingdom of God. Everyone who is born a natural birth is born of water in one sense. But Jesus is talking about the second birth, not the first. He is saying that we must be born of water in the second birth, and this is in alignment with all the rest of the passages listed here.
Acts 2:38 is instruction on what these men needed to do to be saved from their sin of killing Jesus (and all other sins as well). Repent and be baptized (something they needed to DO) in order to receive forgiveness. This is mirrored in Acts 3:19 where repentance is said to "lead to" salvation.
Acts 8:36 indicates that Philip's message about Christ included instruction on the necessity of baptism in water to be saved, because the eunuch is the one who requests to be baptized as they were passing water.
Acts 22:16 has Ananias telling Paul to get up quickly and be baptized. If this were Spirit baptism, then Paul would not have needed to move. But he is told to get up, be baptized, and in so doing wash away his sins calling on the name of the Lord (in the Name of Jesus).
Rom 6:1-4 tells us that it is during baptism (water baptism as indicated in all these other passages) that we are united with Jesus' death and resurrection, and arise to a new life.
Col 2:11-14 says that it is during water baptism (again, as indicated in all these other passages) that the Holy Spirit cuts our sin from us, unites us with Jesus death and resurrection.
Eph 5:25-27 says that we are made pure, spotless, and blameless as the bride of Christ when we are washed in water through the Word.
1 Pet 3:21 says that baptism in water saves us as Noah was saved by passing through the Flood because of his faith. We too are saved by passing through the water because of our faith in Jesus.
All of these passages say the same thing: without passing through the water of baptism we are not cleansed, we are not forgiven, we are not saved.
Insufficient. I am not going by your mess of false interpretation of what you think the Bible teaches. What a copout of a response.
Nowhere does the context in which Jesus mentions "water" is Nicodemus supposed to equate this with Christian water baptism. In fact, the Lord Jesus was expecting Nicodemus to know what He was talking about (John 3:10).
Doug Brents
Well-known member
So Scripture is insufficient for you? I am not giving "false interpretation". Read the Scripture for yourself. It is there plain for anyone with eyes to see.
Yes, Nicodemus was supposed to understand what Jesus was saying. And so are we today. Baptism was a daily part of Jewish life according to the Law of Moses. There were many ceremonial washings that were done daily in the Temple court. John's baptism in Jordan was not unique, or strange to the Jews. Nicodemus would have recognized that Jesus was talking about a ceremonial washing in water and the Spirit working in the act to make a person clean Spiritually so that they could become part of the Kingdom of God.
Your interpretation of it is.
Don't confuse the two.
I have. It doesn't agree with your confusion.
...the Holy Spirit Himself.
Nicodemus, being a Pharisee would have easily made this connection from the Old Testament.
Ezekiel 36:25-27
(25) Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.
(26) Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new Spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
(27) I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.
In fact, John later equates "water" with the Holy Spirit elsewhere within the same Gospel.
John 7:37-39
(37) Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink.
(38) He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’”
(39) But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
The same Greek word for "receive" used in John 7:39 is found in Acts 10:47 in relation to the Gentiles receiving the Holy Spirit - and that before their water baptism.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
You do not get the Holy Spirit's water flowing from your life, until you have the Holy Spirit in your life. And the Holy Spirit does not enter into you until you have been washed in the water of baptism. Notice that the "living water" that flows from a person is not the same as the water in which a person is first washed to be made clean and pure. This is VERY clear from the multitude of Scriptures cited above.
As Eze 36:25 that you posted above says, this all starts with "sprinkle[ing] clean water on you". This is not the Spirit, because the Spirit will be IN you as verse 26 says.
This took place with the Gentiles before their water baptism.
Both times water is used it is in reference to the Holy Spirit.
In reference to the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit falling on the Gentiles (Acts 10:44) means the Holy Spirit was received by the Gentiles (Acts 10:47).
Doug Brents
Well-known member
No, it did not. But only the Spirit can convince you of that truth. I have tried, but can see that you are unwilling to see the truth at this time.
Again, wrong.
Again, wrong.
As pointed out before, the miraculous working of the Holy Spirit, not the indwelling of the Spirit. But as I began this post, you are unwilling to see this truth at this point, so I will leave you to your false belief, and pray that the Spirit opens your heart to the truth.
Yeah, I know, you did so by denying what the words of the Bible mean.
You choose fairy tale definitions instead of what the Greek-English lexicons affirm.
Thanks for once again making this easy for me.
Ezra
Well-known member
if your trying to convince me sorry not happening convince your self you might
Truther
Well-known member
Where in Acts chapter 10 does it say that?
Truther
Well-known member
Acts 2:38 says baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is for remission of sins.
Are you saying remission of sins is before Acts 2:38?
That’s backwards thinking, don’t you think?
The 'for' is in regard to something that has already happened. Don't put this verse by itself. Put it alongside the book of John plus numerous other verses that have no water baptism but are about eternal salvation (sigh).
Truther
Well-known member
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ because you have already received remission of your sins including repenting for the remission of sins…
That looks weird
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