The Water Baptism of 1 Corinthians 12:13

360watt said:
True.. the verbs are different.. but the other thing here is the salvation described with the flood, is not an example of eternal salvation. This does get used though as analogous for baptismal salvation.. but actually has zero to do with it. But anyway..

All you gotta do with baptism for the remission of sins, is compare it with the whole host of verses and paragraphs and chapters that have no water baptism attached to eternal salvation. For eg.. most of the book of John.

It's not a verse that just stands all by it's lonesome. That is why it doesn't mean baptism CAUSING salvation.. but because of it.. or in regards to it.. because so many other verses don't mention baptism and ARE about eternal salvation.

Over.
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My point being obedience must occur BEFORE salvation in both the case of Naoh in building the ark and in the case of Acts 2:38 with obedience in repenting and being baptized BEFORE salvation. Noah could not be save from the flood BEFORE he build the ark no more than a person can be saved BEFORE repenting and being baptized.

(1)
in Acts 2:38 repent is tied to baptized with the conjunction 'and'. If eise mean 'because' then the verse is saying one repents because one is already saved which makes no sense and is impossible since the impenitent are lost (Rom 2:4-5).

(2)
if they were saved prior to being baptized per verse 38 then why does Peter tell them to "save yourselves" in verse 40 if they were already saved prior to v38? If they were saved prior to v38 can you pinpoint the verse and prove how and why they were saved in that verse.

(3)
Acts 2:41
"Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:"

The logical implication is those who rejected the gospel words as spoken by Peter rejected being baptized. People who reject baptism are rejecting the gospel message. Had those Jews rejected being baptized they would have rejected the gospel and remain lost.

(4)
Peter quotes Joel's propehecy in v21
"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

This prophecy was fulfilled in v38:

whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord >>>>>>>>>>>>>> saved
repent and be baptized >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remission of sins/saved

a)
calling on the name of the Lord means doing what the Lord says to do (Lk 6:46) Jesus is Lord of those who do what He says. Disobedience to the Lord's commands is sin, unrighteouness hence not obeying the Lord's commands to repent and be baptized leaves one lost. One who continues to not to righteousness continues to not be of God (1 Jn 3:10). One must work righteousness, obey God's commands to be accepted with God (Acts 10:35). So rejecting baptism is rejecting the word, rejecting Christ as Lord leaving one unacceptable with God.

b)
per Joel's prophecy, does one call upon the name of the Lord IN ORDER to be saved or does one call upon the name of the Lord BECAUSE he is already saved? Obviously one calls upon the name of the Lord IN ORDER to be saved. Since the prophecy is IN ORDER to be saved then the fulfillment would also be IN ORDER to be saved, thus:


prophecy -call upon the name of the Lord IN ORDER to be saved
fulfillment - repent and be baptized IN ORDER to have remission of sins/saved
 
Fred said:
The ark is a type of Christ.
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He could not be saved in the ark until he FIRST OBEYED by building the ark...so we have obedience UNTO salvation. Paul in Rom 6:16 wrote "obedience UNTO salvation". No such thing as DISobedience unto salvation.
 
Fred said:
This does nothing to refute that the ark is a type of Christ.

Furthermore, Noah was already saved before he began building the ark in that he found grace (the first use of this term) in the eyes of God (Genesis 6:8).
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This does not change the order....obedience BEFORE salvation

Obedience in building the ark BEFORE one can be in the/in Christ
Obedience in submitting to baptism BEFORE one can be in Christ Gal 3:27

Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord for Noah obeyed God......Noah walked with God Gen 6:9. Had Noah not obeyed God in building the ark, then he would not have been saved from the flood and would have fallen from grace (Gal 5:4) and would have died with the rest of the wicked people of that generation.

One does not receive God's grace UNconditionally for all time regardless of how one lives. To be in God's grace and remain in grace requires a life time until death of continued obedience to God's will.
 
Seabass said:
This does not change the order....obedience BEFORE salvation
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He was obedient which proves he was already saved.

Seabass said:
Obedience in building the ark BEFORE one can be in the/in Christ
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Like Acts 5:32 - God gives the Holy Spirit to those who obey Him.
And the Gentiles were given the Holy Spirit before their water baptism.

Seabass said:
Obedience in submitting to baptism BEFORE one can be in Christ Gal 3:27
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Yes, the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
You have not refuted any of the points I made showing this is the case in Galatians 3.
 
Fred said:
He was obedient which proves he was already saved.



Like Acts 5:32 - God gives the Holy Spirit to those who obey Him.
And the Gentiles were given the Holy Spirit before their water baptism.



Yes, the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
You have not refuted any of the points I made showing this is the case in Galatians 3.
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One is not saved BEFORE one obeys, Salvation from the flood was not possible at all BEFORE Noah obeyed and built the ark.

You are arguing things that are not possible at all.
 
Fred said:
A Christian obeys the command to partake of the Lord's Supper.

They don't do so in order to obtain salvation. They obey the command because they already have salvation.
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No one becomes a Christian by living in disobedience God, obedience is necessaty to becoming a Christian. Then once one becomes a Christian he can then partake in the Lord's Supper. The Lord's Supper is not for the non-Christian living in disobedience, rebellion to God's will.
 
Seabass said:
No one becomes a Christian by living in disobedience God, obedience is necessaty to becoming a Christian. Then once one becomes a Christian he can then partake in the Lord's Supper. The Lord's Supper is not for the non-Christian living in disobedience, rebellion to God's will.
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So a Christian is saved before he/she obeys the command to partake of the Lord's Supper.
 
Fred said:
So a Christian is saved before he/she obeys the command to partake of the Lord's Supper.
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The LS is only for those who are ALREADY Christians and Christians are those who have ALREADY obey, hence obedience is necessary BEFORE one can scripturally partake of the LS. Taking the LS is NOT how one becomes a Christian. Your "arguments" are faulty.

No salvation, no becoming a Christian, no taking the LS BEFORE obedience.
 
Seabass said:
The LS is only for those who are ALREADY Christians and Christians are those who have ALREADY obey, hence obedience is necessary BEFORE one can scripturally partake of the LS. Taking the LS is NOT how one becomes a Christian. Your "arguments" are faulty.
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No, your argument is faulty.

You are the one who said in post 46, "One is not saved BEFORE one obeys..."

Those ALREADY Christians obey the command to partake of the Lord's Supper.

Thus, your argument is refuted.
 
Fred said:
No, your argument is faulty.

You are the one who said in post 46, "One is not saved BEFORE one obeys..."

Those ALREADY Christians obey the command to partake of the Lord's Supper.

Thus, your argument is refuted.
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--One must obey BEFORE one can be saved.
--One must obey therefore BEFORE becoming a Christian
--The LS is only for Christians and Christians are those who have ALREADY obeyed hence who are ALREADY saved.

Your "arguments" are faulty and illogical.
 
Fred said:
However, one is commanded to obey after they are saved as well.

This is the point you can't figure out.
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One must obey BEFORE one can become saved and must CONTINUE to obey in order to remain saved.

An atheist therefore cannot partake of the LS until he FIRST obeys THEN saved THEN take the LS. Obedience before salvation means one must obey BEFORE taking the LS. An atheist taking the LS does NOT prove he has ALREADY obeyed therefore ALREADY saved.
 
360watt said:
Hold on.... I agree with water baptism being the subject of 1 co 12:13....

But the body in question is the local body at Corinth... Not all redeemed.

So they were saved before baptism. Baptism gave them the pre requisite to join a local body.

'ye are the body of Christ ' is the church at Corinth.

Saved before immersion baptism. The baptism allowing them to join the church at Corinth.
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Saved before baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins?
 
Here’s the deal to be saved.

The sinner repents.

The church baptizes the sinner in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins.

God fills him/her with the Holy Ghost.

3 entities involved per the great commission unto Acts 2:38.
 

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