The Water Baptism of 1 Corinthians 12:13

ezra said:
are you familiar with the doctrine of justification ? which broke down in meaning is 1. Forgiven 2. declared Righteous " not guilty " 3. just as if we had never sinned know then we have the meaning defined . lets take a look at the means according to scripture in which we are Justified . justified by Grace :
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Absolutely I am familiar with justification. We are declared righteous when we are placed "in Christ", because His righteousness is imputed to us, and our sin are imputed to Him. And we are placed "in Christ" when we are baptized into Him; not when we believe, not when we say a prayer, not when we "ask Jesus into our heart".
ezra said:

Romans 3:24-26​

King James Version​

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

justified by faith : Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Galatians 2:15-21​

King James Version​

15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

justified by the blood :

Romans 5:9​

“Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

please note no mention of water baptism which follows after salvation not part of. once again you have to move past acts

Romans 6:4​

“Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”

Colossians 2:12​

“Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”

1 Corinthians 12:13​

“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.” ----> this is the most important baptism water baptism follows
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Let me ask you, is there any Scripture that is more important, more Holy, more significant than any other?
If one Scripture (say, John 3:16) says believe and you will be saved, and another Scripture (say, Rom 10:9-10) says believe and confess Jesus as Lord and you will be saved, is John more important than Paul that we only have to believe and not confess Jesus as Lord?

No, both are equally Scripture, both are equally important, and both are equally correct. So both have to be done.

Now let's also consider Acts 3:19, Mark 16:16, and Acts 2:38. These are not subordinate to John 3, or Rom 10, and they are also equally Scripture, so they too need to be added to the list. So now we have belief in the Gospel, repentance, confession of Jesus as Lord, and baptism that all lead to our reception of salvation. If any of these are missing, then we have violated Scripture, and salvation is not received.
 
Doug Brents said:
Absolutely I am familiar with justification. We are declared righteous when we are placed "in Christ", because His righteousness is imputed to us, and our sin are imputed to Him. And we are placed "in Christ" when we are baptized into Him; not when we believe, not when we say a prayer, not when we "ask Jesus into our heart".
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NOPE negatory not correct water baptism never has never will save one soul your adding to the word of God.
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Doug Brents said:
Now let's also consider Acts 3:19,
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considered it shows NO WATER BAPTISM that is a work that follows salvation


If any of these are missing, then we have violated Scripture, and salvation is not received.
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you done violated it paul said he did not baptize 1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. so if water baptism is essential to salvation as in it has to be done in order to be saved . then paul would been busy baptzing . i am sure you have reason excuse for this to.... so far your using strange fire
 
ezra said:
you just cant help it why do you reject scripture

Hebrews 9:21-23​

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King James Version​

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21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. ( the blood atonement )

1 Peter 1:18-20​

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King James Version​

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18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

there is more to the Bible than acts.. your


is completely out of context the only thing logical is all scripture is profitable

2 Timothy 3:16-17​

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King James Version​

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16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


read your bible
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Acts 2:38 the purpose of water baptism is for the remssion of sins. Nowhere does the NT gospel teach there is remission of in reciting some sinner's prayer, or in easy belief onlyism or in any kind of 'spirit baptism'.

--Rev 1:5 Christ washed us from our sins with His own blood
Jn 19:34 Christ shed His blood in His death, hence the sinner needs access into Christ's death where He shed His blood that can wash away the sinner's sins.
Rom 3:3-7 by no coincidence one is "buried with him by baptism into death" ...."Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?"
Hence water baptsim is the only means to Christ's blood that washes away sins.
 
Fred said:
Romans 6:3 (not 3:3) refers to the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
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The baptism of Rom 6 refers to a literal burial from which one is raised up from....the old man of sin DIES, is BURIED in a watery grave then RAISED up from (resurrected) from that watery grave to then walk in newness of life. This death burial and resurrection is the gospel Paul preached (1 Cor 15:1-3) and one must OBEY the gospel to not be in flaming fire (2 THess 1:8) and there is NO OBEDIENCE in being baptized with the HS on the part of Cornelius. Being baptized with the HS is no even something one can obey for no one has ever been commanded to be spirit baptized". But water baptism has been commanded (Acts 10:47-48) and that can be obeyed by men.

Later in Rom 6 we see those Romans were freed from sin (justified), how? By obeying from the heart that form of doctrine. No justification apart from obedience and there is no obedience in any so called 'spirit baptism". The word "form" carries the idea of a pattern and water baptism is a pattern a form of the death burial and resurrection of Christ, water baptism being that form of doctrine those Romans whereby thier sin were removed by God in baptism (Col 2:11-12) leaving them justified/freed from sin.
 
360watt said:
Baptism for the remission of sins ... 'for' is 'eis' in the Greek.. which means 'in regards to' or 'because of '.

This is because that is how other scripture deals with baptism by immersion, as after already being converted
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"eis" never means "because". This has been debated for a long time, centuries and those who argue eis means because has lost all those debates.

Heb 11:7 Noah built an ark TO (eis) the saving of his house. He did NOT build an ark BECAUSE his house was already saved from a flood that had not even occurred. His obedient work was UNTO salvation and his worked earned him nothing. Obedience in water baptism is UNTO salvation also and the obedience earns nothing.
 
Fred said:
It had everything to do with his salvation.

He was "given" the Holy Spirit, and according to 1 John 4:13 this proves he dwelt "in God."
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The Spirit did not "spirit baptize" the eunuch but instead sent for Phillip to teach and water baptism the eunuch whereby he was saved. His not being baptized with the HS therefore does not "prove" he was lost no more than Cornelius being baptized with the HS "proves" he was saved.

As I pointed out earlier, the purpose of God giving Peter a vision and baptizing Gentiles with the HS was to prove to the Jews salvation was not just for them but was to also to go to the Gentiles and that is what those 2 things proved to the Jews as seen in Acts 11:18. Therefore even if Cornelius had not been baptized with the HS he would have been saved anyway when he heard the saving words of the gospel (Acts 10:14) and obeyed them by being water baptized (Acts 10:47-48).

1) Cornelius would be saved by words (Acts 11:14).... the context does NOT say he would be saved by being baptized with the HS. People add that idea to the text. Being baptized with the HS was NOT how those saving words were imparted to Cornelius they were taught to him by Peter and required obedience to Peter's words in being water baptized. Hence Cornelius was lost and remained lost until heard those saving words and obeyed them. Likewise with the eunuch..he heard the saving words from Phillip and obeyed them by being baptized for all that are saved under the NT are saved in this "like manner way" (Acts 15:11). Again, the eunuch NOT being baptized with the HS does not prove he was left unsaved for baptism with the HS has nothing to to with anyone's perosnal salvation.

2) Cornelius would not be saved unless/until he worked righteousness to be accepted by God. Being baptized by the HS was not how Cornelius obeyed God, but by submitting to water baptism was how he obeyed God, that is worked God's righteousness. No salvation apart from obedience. Being baptized with the HS is not something that can be obeyed for no one was ever commanded to be "spirit baptized", that is somethig that cannot be obeyed as water baptism can be obeyed.
 
ezra said:
thanks for twisting the scriptures for your satisfaction -------were done
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We both agree that the blood of Christ washes away sin and Christ shed His blood in His death. What I proved and you did not was that water baptism is the means of how one accesses Christ's death wherein He shed His blood that washes away sin. Anyone who claims access to Christ's blood other than by being "baptized into his death" (Rom 6) is claiming something the Bible does not.
 
Fred said:
You dodged addressing the use of "given" as it relates to the Holy Spirit and 1 John 4:13.

Try again and don't be sacred with what the Bible teaches concerning this.
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You did not provide any evidence. You claim verses x, y or z teach "spirit baptism" but gave no evidence. I gave evidence that the baptism of Rom 6 includes a literal burial from which one is raised up from. The Bible never teaches the idea where one is buried in the Spirit then raised up from that Spirit thereby not maintaining possession of the Spirit he claims to have. Nor does it ever teach one obey spirit baptism for no one has never been commaded to be spirit baptized. One cannot obey what he has not been commanded.

Also those Romans had to OBEY in order to be freed from sin/justified and they obeyed by being water baptism for again they were NOT commanded to be "spirit baptized" for noone in the NT has ever been commanded to be "spirit baptized" hence that baptism CANNOT be obeyed therefore NOT how they were freed from sin/justified. Man can obey what has been commanded him and water baptism is the baptism that has been commanded man.

NO SALVATION APART FROM OBEDIENCE.


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There is one baptism that saves today per Eph 4:4-5 and that is the human administered water baptism of the great commission that is for the remission of sins.

The text clearly tells us by what means Cornelius would be saved, he must;
1) hear those saving words Acts 11:14
2) obey the command to be water baptized Acts 10:47-48
3) work righteousness to be accepted with God. Acts 10:35

Even though he was baptized with the HS, had he not heard those saving words, had he not obeyed God's command to be water baptized, had he not worked righteous he would still have been lost even though he was baptized with the HS. For that baptism had NOTHING to do with any of these 3 necessary things pertaining to his salvation. The eunuch had met these necessary things hence was was saved even though not baptized with the HS for again, it has nothing to with his or Cornelius personal salvation.

You try and have men saved apart from those saving words, apart from obeying God which is unrighteousness all unrighteousnes will be condemend and apart from be acccepted with God. You clealry overlook the text in how the text says Cornelius would be saved and subsitute your ideas.
 
Seabass said:
"eis" never means "because". This has been debated for a long time, centuries and those who argue eis means because has lost all those debates.

Heb 11:7 Noah built an ark TO (eis) the saving of his house. He did NOT build an ark BECAUSE his house was already saved from a flood that had not even occurred. His obedient work was UNTO salvation and his worked earned him nothing. Obedience in water baptism is UNTO salvation also and the obedience earns nothing.
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Eis can also be 'in regards to'. Baptism 'in regards to' the remission of sins. Noah built an ark in regards to the saving of his house
 
360watt said:
Eis can also be 'in regards to'. Baptism 'in regards to' the remission of sins. Noah built an ark in regards to the saving of his house
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Noah had to obey BEFORE he could be saved from the flood, hence his obedience in building the ark was UNTO salvation and not because he was already saved from the flood that had not yet occurred.
 
Seabass said:
Noah had to obey BEFORE he could be saved from the flood, hence his obedience in building the ark was UNTO salvation and not because he was already saved from the flood that had not yet occurred.
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True.. the verbs are different.. but the other thing here is the salvation described with the flood, is not an example of eternal salvation. This does get used though as analogous for baptismal salvation.. but actually has zero to do with it. But anyway..

All you gotta do with baptism for the remission of sins, is compare it with the whole host of verses and paragraphs and chapters that have no water baptism attached to eternal salvation. For eg.. most of the book of John.

It's not a verse that just stands all by it's lonesome. That is why it doesn't mean baptism CAUSING salvation.. but because of it.. or in regards to it.. because so many other verses don't mention baptism and ARE about eternal salvation.

Over.
 
Seabass said:
Noah had to obey BEFORE he could be saved from the flood, hence his obedience in building the ark was UNTO salvation and not because he was already saved from the flood that had not yet occurred.
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Was Noah and his family sealed in the ark before the water of the flood came (Luke 17:27)?
 
Fred said:
Was Noah and his family sealed in the ark before the water of the flood came (Luke 17:27)?
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Yes, but he could not be sealed in the ark and saved from the flood unless he first obeyed God in building the ark. Therefore his building the ark was UNTO salvation.
 

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