Thats excellent! Worshipping Jesus means that you view him as God, right? If so then that frees you out from the Unitarian camp. What do you believe about the Holy Spirit? Do you believe that he is a Person and God, like the Father is and the Son is?
The Unitarian belief that Jesus is not God causes those who offer worship to the Father's Throne (where Jesus sits) to be guilty of idolatry.
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101G
Well-known member
the Father and the Son is Jesus the Holy Spirit. the titles are just that.... TITLES of the same one Person.
do you agree? yes or no.
101G
Runningman
Well-known member
Your argument doesn't make any sense because the factor you are simply ignoring is those who overcome are sitting on the throne with Jesus.Your wishful heretical thinking does not override what's actually revealed in Rev 3:21.
Tell us more about how the Unitarian Jesus vacates his Throne.... I'll get the popcorn!
Nope. The Christians reside on Jesus' Throne. Why don't you believe Rev 3:21 when it reveals that there are 2 Thrones?
Rev 3:21 says that Jesus sat down with His Father in His Father's Throne and that proves that the Father's "Right Hand" is not amputated away metaphorically, positionally, or any other way you want to spin it.
Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odors, which are the prayers of saints.
So let's boil this down... Is Jesus' throne the throne of God, yes or no? If yes, those who overcome sit on the throne of God and are, thus, equal to God. That refutes the Trinity. If your answer is no, then Jesus is not God. That also refutes the Trinity.
This is what we call a classic pickle. Indeed it is
time.Revelation 3
21To the one who overcomes, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
Peterlag
Well-known member
The verse does not say Jesus is God. You're twisting again.
John 5:23
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
I don't believe God was ever, nor ever will be an image of a golden calf, or a fat bald man, or a random, handsome long-haired man. And the God and Father of the Lord's Christ forbids his people to create such an image. So there is a spirit behind this world's images of God. But it's not the Spirit that was in The Jesus "of the bible", who would never engage in such a religious tradition.
First of all, it was not Jesus who said that. Second of all, John 9:9 clearly shows who it is that is being referred to. That's why there's an extra "he" or the "the man" is added in the English to make it clear that it is not God who is being referred to here.
(John 9:9) Some said, This is he. Others said, He is like him. He said, I am he.
So it's back to the drawing board for you.
I never said it did.
This was my question for you. Worshipping Jesus means that you view him as God, right?
Peterlag
Well-known member
Jesus said I am
The blind man said I am
Now which one are you saying Jesus did not say?
I believe the same Spirit that was in Christ Jesus, was the same Spirit that inspired the Prophets. I don't believe men should adopt the images of God created by this world's religious kingdoms.
civic
Well-known member
can you imagine the Holy Spirit indwelling believers as non personal yet the One who guides, speaks, listens, directs, convicts, leads etc......
All the things our Personal God does.
Thanks that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmm
In the land on De Nile.
Peterlag
Well-known member
You need to stop drinking.
I don't believe in Modalism. John 1:1 destroys it. I rest my case with John 1:1.
101G
Well-known member
did 101G say he did as those... or as a man?
let's see if what you said is true. #1. God as a man. Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us." so how was God "WITH" us? by being in a body as we have.
#2. the Spirit is the Lord Jesus. scripture, 1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:" 1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."
yes, the Spirit of Christ, that was in those prophets of old. so, please address the scriptures which 101G gave, and not 101G. thanks in advance.
101G.
civic
Well-known member
the blind man did not :
save anyone
create anyone
die for anyone
redeem anyone
convict anyone
read anyones thoughts
heal anyone
was anyones Master/ Lord
but was a slave of sin
a sinner
who was speaking to the Holy One, the Lord of Glory, , The King of kings, The Great Shepherd, the Great I Am, the Healer, the Messiah, The Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Lord of Lords, God in the flesh
shall I go on or do you get the point ?
next fallacious argument ..................
hope this helps !!!
This is what the blind man was recorded as saying translated to English:
(John 9:9) Some said, This is he. Others said, He is like him. He said, I am he.
My point stands.
The Ad Hominems have started....
The Bible wins again!
How about the fact that Jesus declared himself the "I Am" God of the OT?
I don't either.
101G
Well-known member
glad you rested your case because now 101G will close the case. John 1:1 will confirm 101G case. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." see that with, is that two persons or the same one person? let the bible speak. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." see the "WITH" there? SEEM LIKE TWO PERSONS? NO, and here's why. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last."
I "ALSO?" yes, for ALSO means, "in addition; too:" in addition to being the First he, he, he, (the same one person) is also the LAST.
since you rested your case, now it is closed. for the same one person who is the WORD in John 1:1 is "ALSO"/WITH God is God, the same one person. just follow bible principle and one will never go wrong..... case closed.
101G.
If you read the Greek, it makes sense for you only if you think God is a Schizophrenic.
Joh 1:1 ᾿Εν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος.
The Word was face to face to God.
Face to face means 2 distinct entities. Only a Schizophrenic is face to face with himself.
101G
Well-known member
ERROR, he is the EQUAL SHARE of HIMSELF in FLESH. supportive scripture, 1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;" 1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."
that's the Lord Jesus ..... NOW in his GLORIFIED STATE.
101G.
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