The Unitarian belief that Jesus is not God causes those who offer worship to the Father's Throne (where Jesus sits) to be guilty of idolatry.
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He who sees the Son also sees the Father. Jesus said so himself. Do you believe him?
(John 14:9) Jesus said to him, Have I been with you such a long time and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father. And how do you say, Show us the Father?
In fact, no one can directly see the Father. The Father can only be seen through Jesus.
(John 6:46) Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God, He has seen the Father.
Conclusion: Modalism is heresy and depicts the Father as a Schizophrenic who talks to himself.
101G
Well-known member
yes, because he is the Father shared in Flesh.... he created all things, do you believe that?
see above statement.
ERROR, again, 1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."
who's a Modelist?
Now let 101G ask you a simple question Hebrews 1:10 "And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:" now this, Zechariah 12:1 "The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him."
WHO LAID THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE EARTH. was it the "Lord" or the "LORD".
now before you answer, 101G warn you to read this first. Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"
he, he, he, was "ALONE" and "BY HIMSELF". and ALONE means, "having no one else present", meaning he didn't go through anyone else. now think before you answer. is the "Lord", "LORD" the same one person, or is this two separate and distinct persons.... (smile).
your answer please.... thanks in advance.
101G.
Runningman
Well-known member
Trinitarianism can be argued to be modalism because, according to orthodox Trinitarianism, there is one God in three persons. The persons are not the same person, but they share the same God-essence indwelling them. Without the essence of God in them they are still a person, but they are no longer God. They become manifestations of God, or representations of God, images of God, or modes of God.
101G
Well-known member
if this is true, tell us HOW MUCH OF THE "ONE" SPIRIT WAS G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') 1. to make empty. for the Son who came in flesh. WAS IT 1/3 OF THE SPIRIT THAT WAS MADE EMPTY, OR 1/2 OF THE "ONE" SPIRIT, OR ALL OF THE SPIRIT WAS MADE EMPTY? which one.....
looking for your answer, and thanks in advance.
101G
All 3 Persons have the same one God nature. That's just like saying all people have the same one human nature. That's totally logical. What's incorrect is to say that there is only one Person that possess God's Nature because John 1:1 precludes it when it says "the Word was with God and the Word was God"
101G
Well-known member
what? you cannot understand? with in God is the same one Person, again. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." now the revelation, Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." also means, "in addition; too" meaning the First ... who was WITH the Last, is the same one person. just as the Word in John 1:1 was "WITH" God is God. the same one person.
argue not with 101G. argue with the scriptures.
101G.
They're sitting in Jesus' Throne. There are 2 Thrones mentioned in Rev 3:21 and Jesus' Throne is one of them.
There are 2 Thrones. He sits on both.
Again, there are 2 Thrones. Those who overcome sit on Jesus' Throne. The Power of the Holy Spirit grants us that privilege. Christ was our Exemplar for that. How does that make us God? The balls is now in your court to prove that.
You're the one in a pickle because the Unitarian belief that Jesus is not God causes those who offer worship to the Father's Throne (where Jesus sits) to be guilty of idolatry.This is what we call a classic pickle. Indeed it is
Excellent verse that proves the Trinity.
The Greek text rebukes you. If you read the Greek, it makes sense for you only if you think God is a Schizophrenic.
Joh 1:1 ᾿Εν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος.
The Word was face to face to God.
Face to face means 2 distinct entities. Only a Schizophrenic is face to face with himself.
Runningman
Well-known member
Jesus isn't technically said to have had the Holy Spirit upon him until his water baptism, which was actually a water baptism of repentance. (think Matt 3:16,17 and Acts 10:37,38) but was then later said to be filled with the fullness of the Deity dwelling in Jesus' body (Colossians 2:9.) So I think the Holy Spirit can be quantified somewhere on a scale from 0%-100%. There is additional evidence for that based on numerous other verses that quantify the Holy Spirit... which lends to the idea that the holy spirit may actually be better understood as a spirit of holiness, empowerment, or anointing rather than an actual person sometimes.
In any case, one of the cardinal sins in orthodox Trinitarianism is that the essence cannot be divided and, if it is, then that's a violation of one of the qualifications of being the Trinity. So was there ever a time Jesus did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit? My answer, based on what I've read in Matthew 3 and Acts 10 is yes; Jesus did not always have the Holy Spirit.
To plainly answer your question this technically supports a modalist's view of the Trinity. That's essentially what the hypostatic union suggests. Jesus was a vehicle or vessel for the Word. So the Son of Man and Son of God may be seen as two different names for two different persons. It ultimately comes down to requiring the Son of Man not be the same person as the Son of God, but scripture makes no distinction between the two. The Son of God is indeed fully human like so many other sons (and daughters of course) of God are fully human.
civic
Well-known member
Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit. Jesus had the Holy Spirit with Him and in Him from the conception in Mary's womb. This is comparable to you having both your mother and father's DNA in you. Jesus had both His mothers and Fathers DNA in Him.
101G
Well-known member
you ERROR, listen, Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us." now OT, Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you." who came? GOD.
second ERROR, the son of God ... flesh bone and blood came out of Mary. Son of Man, came from above.... (smile). please know the difference. ... ok
101G.
101G
Well-known member
the Lord Jesus "BODY" was conceived by the Holy Spirit, himself. please note, no man and woman can conceive a spirit. all spirit are given, not conceived. for all spirits returns to God who gave it.
only flesh bone and blood is conceived by men and women, but here this body was prepared by God. for neither a man or woman had anything to do with this conception. Mary was only a surrogate mother, and not a biological mother of the Christ.
101G.
civic
Well-known member
There can be no human having only a mother's DNA. Every human has both the mother and fathers DNA.
Jesus had no human father to conceive His humanity- His DNA therefor must come from the Father- Divine DNA. This is how He is fully human and fully Divine.
I agree. The Jesus "of the bible" says God is a Spirit, and True worshipers will worship HIM in spirit and truth. Matthew was a witness of the Spirit of God descending on the Lord's Christ "like a dove". He heard the voice of God from heaven, "This is MY Son, in whom I am well pleased".
God's Spirit, God's Love, God's Wisdom, dwelled in the Jesus "of the bible". He was God's Messenger, His Appointed High Priest, HIS Chosen vessel to "Bring us to God", to "Reconcile us to God", to advocate between me and His Father, to ascend up to His Father's Mansion, and "Prepare a place for me there".
The religious kingdoms of the world have rejected this God and have created an image of God in likeness of some random, long-haired man and have declared, "This is our God".
I don't believe the Jesus "of the Bible" would ever advocate for such a religion, and HE certainly never treated His God and my God in this way.
It seems important to include the whole teaching of Peter, as opposed to selecting just one or two verses to promote a popular religious philosophy.
Please consider how Peter starts off this letter.
1 Peter 1: 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God "the Father", through sanctification "of the Spirit", unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. 3 Blessed be "the God and Father" of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath "begotten us" again unto a lively hope "by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" from the dead,
Now I disagree that when you get to verse 10, we are to forget about who is the Father and who is the Son that Peter spoke to in verses 1-3. And try to make the SON out to be God the Father, according to the philosophy of this world's religious businesses and sects. I would ask you, what Spirit was given to Jesus the day a True Levite Priest (JTB) anointed Him? Was HE given His own spirit, or was HE given the Spirit of His God and Father?
And what else does Peter say?
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 "Who by him" do believe in God, "that raised him up from the dead", and gave him glory; that your faith and hope "might be in God."
This is why I ask the question: What is the purpose of Jesus? To get people to worship Him, or His Father? To reconcile men to Him or His Father? To Advocate between us and HIM, or us and His Father. Whose Kingdom is HE in? His or His Father's? Whose mansion is HE preparing a place for us in? His or His Father's. Whose Kingdom and Righteousness are we to Seek First, His or His Fathers?
He tells us all these things, yet this world's religions reject Him and His Sayings, and create an image of God in the likeness of some random long-haired men's hair shampoo model. Then reject God's statutes and create their own high days in worship of their image. Then they reject God's Judgments and Sabbaths and create their own. They reject God's righteousness and go about establishing their own.
The Jesus "of the Bible" said "not to be ye like unto them", and to "come out her, this world's religious kingdoms who profess to know God, but by works deny Him.
I hope you might consider these things.
That says nothing at all about denying his deny
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-10-25/
The Father
Of his own self will
Philippians 2:5–11 (KJV 1900) — 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Um what did you do with him coming down from heaven
who came down from heaven
John 3:13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
John 6:33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
John 6:38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
John 6:41The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
John 6:42And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
John 6:50This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
John 6:51I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
No one mentioned a long haired man handsome or otherwise
Thomas thought he was God
John 20:28–29 (KJV 1900) — 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Peter thought he was God
2 Peter 1:1 (NASB 2020) — 1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
Paul thought he was God
Titus 2:13 (NASB 2020) — 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,
all his disciples here thought he was God shown by the fact they worshipped him
Matthew 28:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
civic
Well-known member
Amen !!!
and amen
101G
Well-known member
listen, the Holy Spirit conceived that body in "likeness/; of men. scripture, Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:" now, listen carefully. Hebrews 2:14 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;" NOTE HE WAS NOT A "PARTAKER" IN OUR FLESH AND BLOOD. HE ... "TOOK PART" IN OUR HUMANITY... do you know the difference in Partaker vs took part. if not look it up.
now you said this, "There can be no human having only a mother's DNA" who was Adam mother?
101G
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