The Unitarian belief that Jesus is not God causes those who offer worship to the Father's Throne (where Jesus sits) to be guilty of idolatry.

[Studyman]

Yet there exist multiple examples of Christ being prayed to in the bible

The four beasts and twenty elders who are bringing the prayers of the saints to Jesus not the father

Revelation 5:8 (KJV 1900) — 8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

1Cor. 1:2 To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:

2Cor. 12:8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me.

Acts 7:59 And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”

1John 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him.

John 14:13 Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.

Acts 1:24 And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen 25 to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.”

Finally we are told to honor the son as we honor the Father

Prayer is one way we honor the Father


John 5:19–23 (KJV 1900) — 19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

I'm sorry Tom, Jesus is my Lord, and I pray to God through Him. And I ask His help in many things. But I don't play the game, "my verse beats up your verse". You and Synergy completely ignore the entire purpose of the Lord's Christ. You refuse to even talk about why HE is here, who HE is reconciling men to, who HE is serving, Who sent Him, why He is God's Priest, what HE is doing even now in Heaven. You are here to promote your specific religious sect, and the image of God it promotes, and the high days it promotes, and the sabbaths it promotes, and the judgments it promotes.

You don't "SEE" the God of Abraham in Jesus because if you did, you would not adopt, defend and promote the images of God they create, the traditions of men they preserve and promote, and the judgments of men promoted by the religious kingdoms of this world.

These religious voices have existed in this world since the Garden. They will still be here, even if you were to separate yourself from them, and "Yield Yourself" to God.

It's a different Path no doubt, and one not traveled by the masses. But the Jesus of the Bible walked it, and instructed me to also strive for the same narrow Path.

I advocate that men deny themselves and follow the Jesus "of the bible" who walked the same Path.

 

[synergy]

Revelation 3:21 is an argument against the deity of Jesus.

Your wishful heretical thinking does not override what's actually revealed in Rev 3:21.

While it's true it does say he sat on his Father's throne, he didn't stay there. No where after this, in example, is Jesus worshipped on the throne with God because the Lamb is not God.

Tell us more about how the Unitarian Jesus vacates his Throne.... I'll get the popcorn!

The fatal flaw in your theology has already been exposed as one having left the door wide open for idolatry. If what you said was true in a practical sense, it would mean that Christians are God but they are not.

Nope. The Christians reside on Jesus' Throne. Why don't you believe Rev 3:21 when it reveals that there are 2 Thrones?

In demonstration, the throne of the Lamb and of God are not the same. This is exactly why Jesus sits at the "right hand of God." I would also add, this debunks the Trinity as well. If God is a Trinity then Jesus sitting at the right hand of the Trinity places Jesus outside the Trinity.

Rev 3:21 says that Jesus sat down with His Father in His Father's Throne and that proves that the Father's "Right Hand" is not amputated away metaphorically, positionally, or any other way you want to spin it.

On the matter of prayer, I have no idea what you're talking with your claim Jesus was prayed to. Nothing in the Bible says that.

Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odors, which are the prayers of saints.

 

[synergy]

Yes you are promoting philosophies. No, Jesus did not claim to be the I AM of Exodus 3:14,15 because he is not the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob according to Acts 3:13.

The Alexandrian Jews, based on their authority and knowledge, rendered God's name as ἐγώ εἰμι ("I Am") in Ex 3:14 of the Septuagint (LXX).
The name that Jesus ascribed to himself in John 8:58 is ἐγώ εἰμι ("I Am").
Both names match perfectly. ἐγώ εἰμι of John 8:58 = ἐγώ εἰμι of Ex 3:14.
That proves Christ is the "I Am" God of the OT.

Now if you take issue with the way that the Alexandrian Jews rendered God's name as ἐγώ εἰμι then you can file an official complaint against that at any Alexandrian Synagogue in Alexandria, Egypt.

 

[synergy]

I'm sorry Tom, Jesus is my Lord, and I pray to God through Him. And I ask His help in many things. But I don't play the game, "my verse beats up your verse". You and Synergy completely ignore the entire purpose of the Lord's Christ. You refuse to even talk about why HE is here, who HE is reconciling men to, who HE is serving, Who sent Him, why He is God's Priest, what HE is doing even now in Heaven. You are here to promote your specific religious sect, and the image of God it promotes, and the high days it promotes, and the sabbaths it promotes, and the judgments it promotes.

You don't "SEE" the God of Abraham in Jesus because if you did, you would not adopt, defend and promote the images of God they create, the traditions of men they preserve and promote, and the judgments of men promoted by the religious kingdoms of this world.

These religious voices have existed in this world since the Garden. They will still be here, even if you were to separate yourself from them, and "Yield Yourself" to God.

It's a different Path no doubt, and one not traveled by the masses. But the Jesus of the Bible walked it, and instructed me to also strive for the same narrow Path.

I advocate that men deny themselves and follow the Jesus "of the bible" who walked the same Path.

In what way are we promoting "religious philosophies" when we believe Christ when he explicitly declared in John 8:58 that he is the "I Am" God of the OT?

 

[TomL]

"Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power" doesn't mention worship. Only God is worshipped in Scripture.

The Lamb is never worshipped on the throne of God:

Revelation 4​

10the twenty-four elders fall down before the One seated on the throne, and they worship Him who lives forever and ever. They cast their crowns before the throne, saying:​

11“Worthy are You, our Lord and God,​

to receive glory and honor and power,​

for You created all things;​

by Your will they exist and came to be.”​

​

Revelation 5​

11Then I looked, and I heard the voices of many angels and living creatures and elders encircling the throne, and their number was myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands.​

14And the four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.​

​

Revelation 7​

9After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and holding palm branches in their hands.​

10And they cried out in a loud voice:​

“Salvation to our God,​

who sits on the throne,​

and to the Lamb!”​

11And all the angels stood around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. And they fell facedown before the throne and worshiped God,​

They are giving the same honor to the lamb as they do the Father

just as told

John 5:23 (KJV 1900) — 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.


Now you ridiculously state Jesus is not worshipped in scripture

Matthew 8:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

Matthew 9:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.

Matthew 14:33 (KJV 1900) — 33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Matthew 15:25 (KJV 1900) — 25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

Matthew 28:17 (KJV 1900) — 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

Luke 24:50–53 (KJV 1900) — 50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them. 51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven. 52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy: 53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.

John 9:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee. 38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.

Hebrews 1:6 (KJV 1900) — 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.


What is this mad desire you have to deny scripture

 

[TomL]

I'm sorry Tom, Jesus is my Lord, and I pray to God through Him. And I ask His help in many things. But I don't play the game, "my verse beats up your verse". You and Synergy completely ignore the entire purpose of the Lord's Christ. You refuse to even talk about why HE is here, who HE is reconciling men to, who HE is serving, Who sent Him, why He is God's Priest, what HE is doing even now in Heaven. You are here to promote your specific religious sect, and the image of God it promotes, and the high days it promotes, and the sabbaths it promotes, and the judgments it promotes.

You don't "SEE" the God of Abraham in Jesus because if you did, you would not adopt, defend and promote the images of God they create, the traditions of men they preserve and promote, and the judgments of men promoted by the religious kingdoms of this world.

These religious voices have existed in this world since the Garden. They will still be here, even if you were to separate yourself from them, and "Yield Yourself" to God.

It's a different Path no doubt, and one not traveled by the masses. But the Jesus of the Bible walked it, and instructed me to also strive for the same narrow Path.

I advocate that men deny themselves and follow the Jesus "of the bible" who walked the same Path.

It's not a matter of one verse beating another

It is a matter of the bible clearly showing Jesus is prayed to

Further, we are commanded to honor the son as we honor the Father

Prayer is one way we do this

 

[Studyman]

In what way am I promoting "religious philosophies" when I believe Christ when he explicitly declared in John 8:58 that he is the "I Am" God of the OT?

It is your cherry picking of Scriptures to preserve your adopted image of God that I am speaking to.

John 8: 54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, "and keep his saying."

Jesus was flesh and Blood, at least the Jesus "of the bible" was. So what part of Jesus' being existed before Abraham? Not His face? Not His hands. Not His Own Will, but His Father's Will. Not His Own Words, but His Father's Words. Not His Own Love, but His Father's Love.

Jesus was the Prophesied "Word" of God sent into this World. Of course, the Word of God existed even before Abraham.

 

[synergy]

They are giving the same honor to the lamb as they do the Father

just as told

John 5:23 (KJV 1900) — 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.


Now you ridiculously state Jesus is not worshipped in scripture

Matthew 8:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

Matthew 9:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.

Matthew 14:33 (KJV 1900) — 33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Matthew 15:25 (KJV 1900) — 25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

Matthew 28:17 (KJV 1900) — 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

Luke 24:50–53 (KJV 1900) — 50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them. 51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven. 52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy: 53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.

John 9:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee. 38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.

Hebrews 1:6 (KJV 1900) — 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.


What is this mad desire you have to deny scripture

And with that, the Judaizing Unitarians are licking their wounds and regrouping to mount a future attack on the Deity of Christ.
It would be all so hilarious if it wasn't so tragic for them.

 

[synergy]

It is your cherry picking of Scriptures to preserve your adopted image of God that I am speaking to.

John 8: 54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, "and keep his saying."

Jesus was flesh and Blood, at least the Jesus "of the bible" was. So what part of Jesus' being existed before Abraham? Not His face? Not His hands. Not His Own Will, but His Father's Will. Not His Own Words, but His Father's Words. Not His Own Love, but His Father's Love.

Jesus was the Prophesied "Word" of God sent into this World. Of course, the Word of God existed even before Abraham.

You answered your own question. The Preincarnate Jesus was the Word of God Person who personally spoke with and interacted with OT Prophets:

• 1 Kings 12:22 "But the Word of God came to Shemaiah the man of God, saying,"
• 1 Ch 17:3 "And it happened the same night the Word of God came to Nathan, saying,

1 Kings 12:22 and 1 Ch 17:3 clearly show that the Pre-Incarnate Word of God was a Communicative Person who had all the attributes of a Person (Mind, Will, Individuality, etc...)

 

[TomL]

It is your cherry picking of Scriptures to preserve your adopted image of God that I am speaking to.

John 8: 54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, "and keep his saying."

Jesus was flesh and Blood, at least the Jesus "of the bible" was. So what part of Jesus' being existed before Abraham? Not His face? Not His hands. Not His Own Will, but His Father's Will. Not His Own Words, but His Father's Words. Not His Own Love, but His Father's Love.

Jesus was the Prophesied "Word" of God sent into this World. Of course, the Word of God existed even before Abraham.

Um this can be true only of a personal being

Philippians 2:5–8 (KJV 1900) — 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

who came down from heaven

John 3:13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
John 6:33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
John 6:38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
John 6:41The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
John 6:42And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
John 6:50This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
John 6:51I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

 

[Studyman]

They are giving the same honor to the lamb as they do the Father

just as told

John 5:23 (KJV 1900) — 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

How is creating images of God in the likeness of some random, long haired men's hair shampoo model, Honoring God or honoring Jesus?

The way that you guys' cherry pick Scriptures to justify your own religion is truly frustrating. Jesus just said:

John 5: 19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

This would be "Be Ye perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect". But you can't use this to justify your specific adopted religion, so it is ignored by you and Synergy. I know you mean well, but shouldn't you consider "ALL" of Jesus' Words, if HE is truly your Lord?

20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things "that himself doeth": and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so "the Son" quickeneth whom he will.

22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment "unto the Son":

Now you ridiculously state Jesus is not worshipped in scripture

Where did I ever say that Jesus is not worshipped in Scripture? How else can I be reconciled to God but through His Son. I am saying that God isn't a handsome long-haired man born on Dec. 25th, that the religions of this world promote and worship.

What is this mad desire you have to deny scripture

Given you cherry pick Jesus' Words to promote your own religious business, it is no surprise you also cherry pick my words.

 

[Studyman]

You answered your own question. The Preincarnate Jesus was the Word of God Person who personally spoke with and interacted with OT Prophets:

• 1 Kings 12:22 "But the Word of God came to Shemaiah the man of God, saying,"

Yes, the "Word" of God dwells in "Men of God". The Jesus "of the Bible" was also a "MAN of God". Moses was a "Man of God". Shemaiah was a "man of God". Remember, Jesus lived from His Youth to 30 something years old before His Ministry began. During this time HE learned obedience from the things HE suffered. HE "Grew in the knowledge of God". He was so committed to and had humbled Himself completely to His Father who HE said was my God and His God. He is the example of FAITH we are to strive for, in my understanding.

• 1 Ch 17:3 "And it happened the same night the Word of God came to Nathan, saying,

Yes, Nathan was also a Man of God.

1 Kings 12:22 and 1 Ch 17:3 clearly show that the Pre-Incarnate Word of God was a Communicative Person who had all the attributes of a Person (Mind, Will, Individuality, etc...)

I don't believe a long-haired handsome man came to Nathan and Shemaiah.

 

[101G]

LET THE LAMB AND THE AUTHOR SPEAK

What if we could hear from The Lamb Himself declare if He is God?

Well, the Lamb has spoken in the Book of Revelation:
He who overcomes will I make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My own new name. (Rev 3:12)

The Lamb has a God to worship, his God. The only God mentioned in the Book of Revelation is The One who sits in the throne.
The Lamb mentioned who was his God in John 20:17: Stop holding on to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father. But go to My brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, to My God and your God.’ 

What if we could ask the author of The Book of Revelation who is God?

The author would tell us that God is The Father of Christ. "To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. (Rev 1:5,6)


SUMMARY

1. In the Book of Revelation, God is The One who sits in the throne. It is not the Lamb, who stands on his right hand. "They cried out with a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” (Revelation 7:10) This is consistent with 10 other verses across the NT that show Jesus sitting on the right of the throne of God.
2. The claim of the Opening Post that people worship Christ in the throne of God is incorrect, since it is God, and not the Lamb, who sits on that throne.
3. There is only one instance in which Christ says He has sat with his Father in his throne. This is in Rev 3:21. In this same sentence, Christ also says that we will sit with him in his throne. Since only one person fits a chair, Christ is not referring to a chair, but to a government. Christ will make us rulers and God made him ruler. This is supported by Peter in Acts 5:30,31
4. The author of Revelation indicates that God is The Father of Jesus (Rev 1:5,6)
5. The Lamb says 4 times He has his God. In John 20:17 we learn that his God is his Father, our Father.
6. Therefore, no Unitarian would think that the 24 elders, 4 living creatures and angels in the Book of Revelation are committing an act of idolatry.
7. The argumentation of the Opening Post has been refuted.

FOOTNOTE: Jesus could never be an idol, neither for Unitarians nor Trinitarians. The mere thought of it is blasphemous. An idol takes us away from God. Jesus takes us to God. God will be pleased with us if we honor, praise and kneel before Christ. But most importantly, God will be pleased if we do what Christ told us to do: to' love each other as He loved us.

101G must disagree with some of the statements. if we can, ..... discuss some of them.
your first one. "In the Book of Revelation, God is The One who sits in the throne. It is not the Lamb, who stands on his right hand." 101G disagree with that assessment to a point. YES, God sits on the throne, and here's why 101G disagree with your assessment. if it's the Father who sits on the throne and not the Lord Jesus the Lamb. "WHO GAVE THE FATHER POWER?" because the one who sits on the throne received power. Revelation 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."

book chapter and verse as to who gave the Father Power. will be looking for your answer. thanks in advance.

101G.

 

[civic]

Amen, and HE was given this power, position and name from God His Father, who HE said was Greater than HE, and God did so because of His Works and Faith HE walked in as a mortal man on earth. Truly HE is the creator and Author of my Faith, and like Paul, I press Towards the High call of God, which was in the Christ Jesus "of the Bible", that I might also be accepted of Him.

My issue with the religious kingdoms of this world, who come in His Name, is that they reject the Father, they promote lies about Him, like the lie that HE placed on the necks of men that trusted HIM, Impossible Laws to obey, then slaughtered them when they didn't obey. So they created an image of God, just like in the Exodus, only instead of it being in the likeness of a sacrificial calf, they created an image of God in the likeness of some random, handsome long-haired man, they also claim is the God that brought them out of spiritual Egypt. The Jesus "of the bible" specifically warned about listening to these "many" who transgress God's commandments that they might live by their own religious traditions.

To this day they refuse to acknowledge that the Jesus "of the bible" is my advocate between me and His Father that HE might bring me to God.

1 Pet. 3: 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: (HE Said HIS God is a Spirit, and I believe him even if others don't)

Truly HE is despised and rejected by men, that they must create their own image that is more to their liking.

Truly there is no new thing under the sun.

nope God will not share His Glory with anyone. Yet we know the Son shared the exact same GLORY together with the Father before CREATION. John 17:5


proving the Son is equal with the Father as God.

 

[101G]

I don't believe a long-haired handsome man came to Nathan and Shemaiah.

no, the Spirit did, and that Spirit later in "TIME" manifested as a man. do you agree?

101G.

 

[Peterlag]

I see you offered no counterargument against the fact that the Unitarian belief that Jesus is not God causes those who offer worship to the Father's Throne (where Jesus sits) to be guilty of idolatry.

As for Ex 3:14, the Alexandrian Jews, based on their authority and knowledge, rendered God's name as ἐγώ εἰμι ("I Am") in Ex 3:14 of the Septuagint (LXX).
The name that Jesus ascribed to himself in John 8:58 is ἐγώ εἰμι ("I Am").
Both names match perfectly. ἐγώ εἰμι of John 8:58 = ἐγώ εἰμι of Ex 3:14.

Now if you take issue with the way that the Alexandrian Jews rendered God's name as ἐγώ εἰμι then you can file an official complaint against that at any Alexandrian Synagogue in Alexandria, Egypt.

I'm limited on how much I say to you because you like to attack others personally. But if you want my take on worshiping the Christ. Yes I worship both God and the Christ. Here's the verse...

John 5:23
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

 

[synergy]

Yes, the "Word" of God dwells in "Men of God". The Jesus "of the Bible" was also a "MAN of God". Moses was a "Man of God". Shemaiah was a "man of God". Remember, Jesus lived from His Youth to 30 something years old before His Ministry began. During this time HE learned obedience from the things HE suffered. HE "Grew in the knowledge of God". He was so committed to and had humbled Himself completely to His Father who HE said was my God and His God. He is the example of FAITH we are to strive for, in my understanding.

As God, the Word of God Jesus Christ is a distinct Person and does dwell in the hearts of Believers.

Yes, Nathan was also a Man of God.

I don't believe a long-haired handsome man came to Nathan and Shemaiah.

I don't either because the Word of God was not incarnated yet but He did appear to OT Prophets. Do you believe those passages?

 

[Studyman]

Um this can be true only of a personal being

Philippians 2:5–8 (KJV 1900) — 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Yes, HE wasn't God. As this verse clearly points out.

Matt. 10: 24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. 25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant "as his lord". If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Yes, He didn't create His Own religion, or His own Judgments, or His Own Righteousness or seek His own will. He "Yielded Himself" a servant to obey God.

who came down from heaven

John 3:13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
John 6:33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

Yes, God sent Him, "The Bread of God".

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will "of him" that sent me.
John 6:41The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
John 6:42And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
John 6:50This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
John 6:51I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Yes, the Bread of God, the Word of God, the Love of God, the Wisdom of God, comes down from above, not up from below.

This doesn't prove that God is a long-haired handsome man born on Dec. 25th.

 

[101G]

I'm limited on how much I say to you because you like to attack others personally. But if you want my take on worshiping the Christ. Yes I worship both God and the Christ. Here's the verse...

John 5:23
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

what about Revelation 14:6 "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people," Revelation 14:7 "Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters."

did not the Lord Jesus Made Heaven and Earth? Revelation 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."

so, he who sits on the throne is The Lord Jesus, so all people in all nations is to worship the Lord Jesus who created all things.

101G

 

[Peterlag]

I see you offered no counterargument against the fact that the Unitarian belief that Jesus is not God causes those who offer worship to the Father's Throne (where Jesus sits) to be guilty of idolatry.

As for Ex 3:14, the Alexandrian Jews, based on their authority and knowledge, rendered God's name as ἐγώ εἰμι ("I Am") in Ex 3:14 of the Septuagint (LXX).
The name that Jesus ascribed to himself in John 8:58 is ἐγώ εἰμι ("I Am").
Both names match perfectly. ἐγώ εἰμι of John 8:58 = ἐγώ εἰμι of Ex 3:14.

Now if you take issue with the way that the Alexandrian Jews rendered God's name as ἐγώ εἰμι then you can file an official complaint against that at any Alexandrian Synagogue in Alexandria, Egypt.

Many Trinitarians argue that this verse states that when Jesus said “I am,” he was claiming to be God, (i.e., Yahweh, the God. But saying “I am” does not mean a person is claiming to be God. The Greek that is translated as “I am” is egō eime (ἐγὼ εἰμί), and it was a common Greek way for a person to identify themself. For example, only ten verses after Jesus said, egō eime (“I am”) in John 8:58, the man who had been born blind identified himself by saying exactly what Jesus said; egō eime (“I am;” John 9:9). Thus, Jesus and the man born blind both identified themselves by saying egō eime (“I am”), only ten verses apart.