The Unitarian belief that Jesus is not God causes those who offer worship to the Father's Throne (where Jesus sits) to be guilty of idolatry.

[praise_yeshua]

A Muslim?

Or something similar. Believe it or not, all Muslims don't treat Jesus the same.

 

[MTMattie]

Hence the Word is not an actual person. The Word isn't the creator in John 1:2-3, the Word isn't the True Light in John 1:9, the Word didn't incarnate as flesh, but became flesh... it took up temporary residence in Jesus, hence it made its dwelling among us or tabernacled among us.

John 1 (God's Word translation)
14The Word became human and lived among us. We saw his glory. It was the glory that the Father shares with his only Son, a glory full of kindness and truth.

About God's Word Translation HURRY AND READ THIS SO YOU GET TO THE BOTTOM​

English translation of the Bible translated by the God's Word to the Nations Society
godsword.org
The God's Word Translation is an English translation of the Bible. God's Word to the Nations Mission Society managed and funded the translation. Wikipedia

Full name	God's Word Translation
Abbreviation	GW
Complete Bible, published	1995

If your bible only came into existence 29 years ago... what in the word did you use before then?​

https://www.biblestudytools.com/gw/john/1.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God's_Word_Translation
From GWT
1 In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was already with God in the beginning.
3 Everything came into existence through him. Not one thing that exists was made without him.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God's_Word_Translation
HELLO:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God's_Word_Translation
This is the bible you are referencing and it plainly as day says the word was God.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God's_Word_Translation​

HELLO, HELLO, HELLO.... ANYONE HOME????????????????????????????????????????????????????????​

From God's Word Translation... Link is above for anyone to access....

​

14 The Word became human and lived among us. We saw his glory. It was the glory that the Father shares with his only Son, a glory full of kindness and truth.​

That human being the Word became was Jesus....Do you not understand that?

Your bible states the Word was God. Your bible states the Word became human. Your bible states this was his only Son.

Only possible conclusion. The Son who was the Word who was God IS God

 

[synergy]

So you don't believe in basic english? I understand, you must sacrifice the language to preserve your beliefs, but unfortunately for you, you won't be allowed to here. The word of the Lord referring to the LORD in the third person means the word of the Lord isn't God. You have lost your point.

If I say that (3rd) person is human, does that make me non-human???? That's your logic right there which falls flat on its face, as usual.

In fact, where in the entire Bible does the Word of God explicitly declare that he is not God? You've got a mental block that imagines myths and fairy tales.

In summary, you are a Person who

1. flat out contradicts John 1:1 "the Word was God".
2. has given himself the authority to change "Word of God" to "words of God" in the Bible.
3. imagines words speaking words.
4. degrades Jesus without even a second thought.
5. promotes myths and fairy tales,
6. promotes illogical sentences as logical,
7. failed miserably to prove this thread as false,
8. etc......

You've obviously lost all credibility to say anything believable against Trinitarianism.

 

[101G]

This is the bible you are referencing and it plainly as day says the word was God.

if God ever exist, (and he do), how is it he "WAS" (past tense) ..... God?

just asking, 101G understand what you and the verse is saying but your recipient do not understand.

101G.

 

[praise_yeshua]

if God ever exist, (and he do), how is it he "WAS" (past tense) ..... God?

just asking, 101G understand what you and the verse is saying but your recipient do not understand.

101G.

"Was" is a point in time. Eternal is not the absence of time. It is never ending time.

 

[101G]

"Was" is a point in time. Eternal is not the absence of time. It is never ending time.

CORRECT, an EVENT can take place in TIME, ORDER, PLACE and RANK. understand?
Example Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." NOTE, not "at" the beginning, but "in" the beginning.

101G.

 

[praise_yeshua]

CORRECT, an EVENT can take place in TIME, ORDER, PLACE and RANK. understand?
Example Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." NOTE, not "at" the beginning, but "in" the beginning.

101G.

You don't have to ask me if I understand.....

Looks like we agree.

 

[101G]

You don't have to ask me if I understand.....

Looks like we agree.

it's just only understanding the process by some.

101G.

 

[civic]

You have a number of problems

The messenger (angel) of the Lord who is called Jehovah

The Word of God who appears to men and speaks

The fact the Old Testament quotes men saying they saw God and Jesus stating no one has heard or seen the father

The fact Old Testament appearances/events are seen involving Jehovah and are declared to be appearances/events involving jesus

Amen it's irrefutable.

 

[Peterlag]

Even worse. You referenced Ehrman by name. Am I suppose to believe that you didn't intend Ehrman at all?

Yeah that's right. I got them both off Amazon. Copied and pasted both and what was said about them. It's called an honest human mistake. Now what should you recommend for me? The death penalty?

 

[Peterlag]

Seriously?


He is Lord of all the world, to whom God said at the foundation of the world, “Let us make man after our image, and after our likeness.” Barnabas (c. 70–130, E), 1.139.

Let us reverence the Lord Jesus Christ, whose blood was given for us. Clement of Rome (c. 96, W), 1.11.

God Himself was manifested in human form for the renewal of eternal life. Ignatius (c. 105, E), 1.58.

Continue in intimate union with Jesus Christ, our God. Ignatius (c. 105, E), 1.68.

I pray for your happiness forever in our God, Jesus Christ. Ignatius (c. 105, E), 1.96.

The Christians trace the beginning of their religion to Jesus the Messiah. He is called the Son of the Most High God. It is said that God came down from heaven. He assumed flesh and clothed Himself with it from a Hebrew virgin. And the Son of God lived in a daughter of man. Aristides (c. 125, E), 9.265.

Truly God Himself, who is Almighty, the Creator of all things, and invisible, has sent from heaven, and placed among men, the One who is the truth, and the holy and incomprehensible Word.… God did not, as one might have imagined, send to men any servant, angel, or ruler.… Rather, He sent the very Creator and Fashioner of all things—by whom He made the heavens.… As a king sends his son, who is also a king, so God sent Him. He sent Him as God. Letter to Diognetus (c. 125–200), 1.27.

Brethren, it is fitting that you should think of Jesus Christ as of God—as the Judge of the living and the dead. Second Clement (c. 150), 7.517.

We reasonably worship Him, having learned that He is the Son of the true God Himself, and holding Him in the second place. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.166.

The Word, … He is Divine. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.166.

The Father of the universe has a Son. And He, being the First-Begotten Word of God, is even God. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.184.

Next to God, we worship and love the Word who is from the unbeggoten and ineffable God. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.193.

For Christ is King, Priest, God, Lord, Angel, and Man. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.211.

[TRYPHO, A JEW:] You utter many blasphemies, in that you seek to persuade us that this crucified man was with Moses and Aaron, and spoke to them in the pillar of the cloud. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.213.

Moses … declares that He who appeared to Abraham under the oak in Mamre is God. He was sent with the two angels in His company to judge Sodom by another One, who remains ever in the supercelestial places, invisible to all men, holding personal contact with no one. We believe this other One to be the Maker and Father of all things.… Yet, there is said to be another God and Lord subject to the Maker of all things. And He is also called an Angel, because he announces to men whatsoever the Maker of all things—above whom there is no other God—wishes to announce to them. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.223.

He deserves to be worshipped as God and as Christ. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.229.

David predicted that He would be born from the womb before the sun and moon, according to the Father’s will. He made Him known, being Christ, as God, strong and to be worshipped. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.237.

The Son ministered to the will of the Father. Yet, nevertheless, He is God, in that He is the First-Begotten of all creatures. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.262.

If you had understood what has been written by the prophets, you would not have denied that He was God, Son of the Only, Unbegotten, Unutterable God. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.263.

“Rejoice, O you heavens, with him, and let all the angels of God worship Him” [Deut. 32:43]. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.264.

He is forever the first in power. For Christ, being the First-Born of every creature, became again the chief of another race regenerated by Himself through water, faith, and wood. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.268.

Then did the whole creation see clearly that for man’s sake the Judge was condemned, and the Invisible was seen, and the Illimitable was circumscribed, and the Impassible suffered, and the Immortal died, and the Celestial was laid in the grave. Melito (c. 170, E), 8.756.

God was put to death, the King of Israel slain! Melito (c. 170, E), 8.758.

There is the one God and the Logos proceeding from Him, the Son. We understand that the Son is inseparable from Him. Athenagoras (c. 175, E), 2.137.

God by His own Word and Wisdom made all things. Theophilus (c. 180, E), 2.91.

“Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; the scepter of Your kingdom is a right scepter. You have loved righteousness and hated iniquity. Therefore, God, Your God, has anointed You.” For the Spirit designates by the name of God—both Him who is anointed as Son, and He who anoints, that is, the Father. And again, “God stood in the congregation of the gods; He judges among the gods.” Here he refers to the Father and the Son, and those who have received the adoption. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.419.

For He fulfills the bountiful and comprehensive will of His Father, inasmuch as He is Himself the Savior of those who are saved, and the Lord of those who are under authority, and the God of all those things that have been formed, the Only-Begotten of the Father. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.443.

I have shown from the Scriptures that none of the sons of Adam are, absolutely and as to everything, called God, or named Lord. But Jesus is Himself in His own right, beyond all men who ever lived, God, Lord, King Eternal, and the Incarnate Word.… He is the Holy Lord, the Wonderful, the Counselor, the Beautiful in appearance, and the Mighty God. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.449.

Thus He indicates in clear terms that He is God, and that His advent was in Bethlehem.… God, then, was made man, and the Lord did Himself save us. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.451.

He is God, for the name Emmanuel indicates this. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.452.

Christ Himself, therefore, together with the Father, is the God of the living, who spoke to Moses, and who was also manifested to the fathers. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.467.

Now the father of the human race is the Word of God. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.505.

How can they be saved unless it was God who worked out their salvation upon earth? Or how shall man pass into God, unless God has first passed into man? Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.507.

It is plain that He was Himself the Word of God, who was made the son of man. He received from the Father the power of remission of sins. He was man, and He was God. This was so that since as man He suffered for us, so as God He might have compassion on us. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.545.

He is God in the form of man, stainless, the minister of His Father’s will, the Word who is God, who is in the Father, who is at the Father’s right hand. And with the form of God, He is God. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.210.

There is a suggestion of the divinity of the Lord in [Isaac’s] not being slain. Jesus rose again after His burial, having suffered no harm—just like Isaac was released from being sacrificed. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.215.

O the great God! O the perfect child! The Son in the Father and the Father in the Son.… God the Word, who became man for our sakes. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.215.

The Father of all is alone perfect, for the Son is in Him and the Father is in the Son. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.222.

Our Instructor is the holy God Jesus, the Word. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.223.

Nothing, then, is hated by God, nor yet by the Word. For both are one—that is, God. For He has said, “In the beginning the Word was in God, and the Word was God.” Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.225.

He who has the Almighty God, the Word, is in want of nothing. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.281.

Pointing to the First-Begotten Son, Peter writes, accurately comprehending the statement, “In the beginning God made the heaven and the earth.” And He is called Wisdom by all the prophets. This is He who is the Teacher of all created beings. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.493.


David W. Bercot, ed., “Christ, Divinity Of,” A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs: A Reference Guide to More than 700 Topics Discussed by the Early Church Fathers (Peabody, MA: Hendrickson Publishers, 1998), 93–95.

Are these all Catholic guys?

 

[Runningman]

From God the father yes

Not from his deity

As Thomas

John 20:28–29 (KJV 1900) — 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.


Paul

Titus 2:13 (LEB) — 13 looking forward to the blessed hope and the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

Peter

2 Peter 1:1 (LEB) — 1 Simeon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have obtained a faith equal in value to ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ.

His disciples

Luke 24:36–53 (KJV 1900) — 36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. 38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. 40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. 41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? 42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. 43 And he took it, and did eat before them. 44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. 45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And ye are witnesses of these things. 49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. 50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them. 51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven. 52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy: 53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.

Which would be an act of blashemy were Jesus not God (deity)

Jesus is an entirely distinct being from God all together. They don't share the same attributes, names, statuses, etc. For example, where the word "God" and Jesus appear in close proximity one to another in Scripture, if you were to replace God with Trinity anywhere in the Bible then it wouldn't make any sense.

Thomas didn't ever actually say "You are God" to Jesus. That would be a perverse translation since it is no supported by the Greek text. No one ever translates it the way you do. Thomas made a declaration. If that was what Jesus was teaching people then they would have all been agreeing with Thomas and none did.

Pretty difficult for Jesus being God when he looked a man in the eyes and denied it. You calling Jesus a liar?

Mark 10
18“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone.

Think about what Jesus said. If God is the Trinity then Jesus placed himself outside of the Trinity. If God is the Father, then Jesus isn't the Father and thus isn't God. If Jesus is God then he denied being the one who alone is good, which would be God. You should consider some context here. Jesus got his teachings from God, which would mean he didn't get them from himself. If he didn't get his teachers from himself then he isn't God or omniscient like God. Make sense?

John 7
16“My teaching is not My own,” Jesus replied. “It comes from Him who sent Me.

John 8
28So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing on My own, but speak exactly what the Father has taught Me.

 

[Runningman]

Selective quoting.

Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Lust brings forth sin.

As always, you're tarnishing the Impeccable and precious Nature of Jesus Christ.

Lusting after something and the lust having conceived aren't the same things. Yes Jesus absolutely did have temptation according to Scripture. Remember, Hebrews 4:15 says Jesus was tempted in all points as we are yet without sins. Means the same kind of temptations and struggles that you and I go through, Jesus also went through because he's a human and is still a human mediating between God and men.

You seem thrown off by the language of the KJV, though it's accurate, it's not meant to be distorted into describing Jesus like a sinner as you just did.

Here's a modern version that describes what temptation is. Remember, Jesus was tempted in all ways as we are according to Hebrews 4:15.

James 1
13When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone. 14But each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed.

 

[Runningman]

Not if you believe scripture

John 1:3 (LEB) — 3 All things came into being through him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being.

In John 1:1-3, there are two different beings in Trinitarian theology. There is the Word and then there is God. God is God and the Word is God. These verses say that the Word was with God. Then in John 1:3, the "he" in this verse refers back to the closest pronoun. This is a real English grammar rule known as the pronoun antecedent agreement. So the Word is not the Creator in John 1:3 based on the rules of grammar. I bolded the relevant noun and pronoun below.

John 1 (NIV)​

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.​

John 1:10 (LEB) — 10 He was in the world, and the world came into being through him, and the world did not recognize him.

This verse also disproves that the word is the creator. In John 1:9, we can see that in the present tense usage that the True Light was coming into the world after John the baptist had already gone around preaching. This would place Jesus at approximately 30 years old when the True Light was in the process of coming into the world. Since John 1:9 refers to the true Light coming into the world in the present tense then Jesus or the Word aren't the true Lights or the creator.

John 1 (NIV)​

9The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.​

Colossians 1:16 (LEB) — 16 because all things in the heavens and on the earth were created by him, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers, all things were created through him and for him,

Context. Colossians 1:15 immediately proves that Jesus is not God, but rather refers to Jesus as part of and not independent from the creation. Hence Jesus is referred to the image of the invisible God which would mean that Jesus is not invisible nor the invisible God. Therefore, Jesus is not God. Since Jesus is not God, Colossians 1:16-18 refers to the context of the church. This is why God did not reconcile all things to himself until Jesus' death on the cross. Furthermore, it doesn't say Jesus is the creator, it says that God created "through" him. You need to dig into the Greek of Colossians 1:16 more because it proves that Jesus was the channel or instrument through which God created through, but it's obviously in regards to using Jesus as a prophet. There are no Old Testament examples of God actually creating through anyone.

Hebrews 1:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Hebrews 1:1-2 prove that speaking through the Son is not a way God spoke in the past. Therefore, since God spoke in the past to create the universe, but didn't speak through the Son until these last days, then God didn't create by speaking through the Son. The worlds or universe weren't made ~2,000 years ago either.

The literal rendering of this verse refers to an age, i.e., the church/messianic age.

Hebrews 1:1-2 (Berean Literal Bible)​

1God, having spoken long ago to our fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the ages,​

Hebrews 1:8–11 (KJV 1900) — 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

This proves that Jesus is not God again. Since this passage is partially quoted from Psalm 45, the original context in Psalm 45 is in regards to a human with a queen. God does not have a queen and neither did Jesus. Therefore the man being called a god in Psalm 45:6 is not actually God and therefore this is not a Messianic prophecy. When the writer of Hebrews transferred Psalm 45:6 to Jesus in Hebrews 1:8, the whole package has to come with it. Since the man with a queen in Psalm 45 is not God then it transfers to Jesus that he is not God in Hebrews 1:8

Psalm 45 (NIV)​

6Your throne, O God, c will last for ever and ever;​

a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.​

7You love righteousness and hate wickedness;​

therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions​

by anointing you with the oil of joy.​

8All your robes are fragrant with myrrh and aloes and cassia;​

from palaces adorned with ivory​

the music of the strings makes you glad.​

9Daughters of kings are among your honored women;​

at your right hand is the royal bride in gold of Ophir.​

I would also add that Psalm 45 describes the king as lusting after the beauty of his wife. A married man can do that to his wife, but Jesus cannot.

Psalm 45(NIV)​

11Let the king be enthralled by your beauty;​

honor him, for he is your lord.​

​

Furthermore, since Hebrews 1:9 describes a God anointing Jesus "above his companions" that that means Jesus is not God because God was never below anyone to have ever had need to be anointed above them. Hebrews 1:10 begins with "and" because it is conjoined to Hebrews 1:9, therefore the Creator YHWH in Hebrews 1:10 is a reference to the previously mentioned God who anointed Jesus in Hebrews 1:9. You have just provided a great passage to begin with disproving the deity of Jesus.

I also might add, Jesus is not equal to God since he was anointed by God.

Hebrews 7 (NIV)​

7And without doubt the lesser is blessed by the greater.​

Ephesians 3:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

This is flat out false. Likely a later addition by a perverse Trinitarian to bolster the Trinitarian position. No modern Bible includes "Jesus Christ" in this verse.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
created all things by Jesus Christ—God's creation of the world and all things therein is the foundation of the rest of the "economy," which is freely dispensed according to the universal power of God [Bengel]. AS God created "the whole range of things" (so the Greek), physical and spiritual alike, He must have an absolute right to adjust all things as He will. Hence, we may see His right to keep the mystery of world-wide salvation in Christ "hidden in Himself," till his own good time for revealing it. The oldest manuscripts omit "by Jesus Christ."

Expositor's Greek Testament
The TR adds διὰ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ to the κτίσαντι (with [282] [283] [284], etc.); but these words must be omitted, as the best authorities ([285] [286] [287] [288] [289] [290], 17, etc.) do not give them.

Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
who created all things] Omit “by Jesus Christ,” with the preponderance of ancient authority.—The truth of the One Creator appears here as in deep harmony with the universal scope of His Redemption. All through Scripture, in very different contexts, the truths of Creation and Redemption are seen in connexion. See a vivid illustration in Colossians 1, where the Father, in and through the Son, both “creates all things,” and “reconciles all things.”

1 Corinthians 8:6 (KJV 1900) — 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

If you do, it harmonizes quite well

This verse disproves the Trinity with flying colors and is a Christian prooftext for the Father being the only true God.

John 17 (NIV)​

3Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.​

​

Ephesians 4 (NIV)​

6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.​

 

[Runningman]

I will go on record declaring you have a false christ, another jesus which also means as Paul declares in Galatians 1:6-9 another gospel.

Jesus was/is sinless, the Holy One, Good etc........... He is Impeccable just like the Father- To see Him is to see the Father- Jesus and the Father are One.

By saying Jesus lusts you are saying the Father lusts for Jesus only said and did what He saw the Father saying and doing. He did nothing apart from the Father and Gods will.

I will go on record declaring you have an idol and God reads these threads. He reads everything and it's pardonable.

God is not a man or a son of man:

Numbers 23(KJV)​

19God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?​

​

Hosea 11(KJV)​

9I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.​

Jesus a man and a son of man:

​

John 8(KJV)​

40But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.​

​

Matthew 16 (KJV)​

13When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?​

​

Some advice when you get there:

Luke 18 (KJV)​

13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.​

 

[Runningman]

that Jesus only had the Holy Spirit at the baptism, not before.

btw- the visuals were for John the Baptist for him to know, not because Jesus needed it.

The Biblical proof about when Jesus had the Holy Spirit was at his water baptism. The Bible says that's where it began. And Jesus isn't God, but rather God was with him. Straight Scripture.

Acts 10 (NIV)
37You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.

 

[Runningman]

It's not my job to speculate about another's motives.

I made a very valid and op-relevant point: the two verses cited do not say what was claimed. The error was not corrected; it is being defended. It does make sense.

No, it is not "straight forward." The fact remains the verses cited do not say what they were claimed to say. If you have to employ inference to make the case, then the eisegesis is implicitly acknowledged. In such case..... it would be you not making sense.


More importantly, I do not trade posts with posters who don't answer simple questions succinctly when asked. Neither do I trade posts with posters who repeatedly misrepresent scripture. I don't trade posts with those who repeatedly defend blatant error. Most importantly, perhaps, I don't trade posts with those who do not self-correct when a mistake is apparent. In an effort to extend a hand of goodwill and love (and obedience to God's word) I typically give the other person three tries to fix the problem (this practice has been witnessed here and in other forums). I will not discuss the verses with you if you don't, but I will post an exegetical explanation why those verses cannot be interpreted as they were.... and I'll ignore any subsequent protests on your part (and @Peterlag's) because of already existing established obfuscation and avoidance. Correct the mistake first. Clarify the claim(s) afterwards.

That's a dodge.

Will you now acknowledge the two verses cited (Rev. 3:14 and Col. 1:15) do not actually say what was claimed?

These verses describe Jesus as being created as I already said.

 

[Runningman]

I hope you are not imagining the trinity doctrine teaches Jesus is the Father

That is not Trinitarianism

I don't think Jesus is the Father.

 

[Runningman]

You can say whatever you want. You're a perfect example of an inept Unitarian. Keep it up. What I said was you're not proving anything but ignorance.



Who cares what Cambridge is teaching someone in "seminary". Besides, Cambridge has long been forgotten. You can't find the evidence that Cambridge used to make that statement. Thusly, all you have are the words of ignorant men. Just another blind follower of nonsense. You referenced the first reference you could find that agreed with you. Pitiful. I know the subject and how to do actual research instead of "googling".

So you don't use Google? Do you go to the library? Oh wait, I am sure you already know everything and quote all of your scriptures and sources directly word-for-word from memory. Many people on the Internet use Google.

You're utterly powerless to stop me.

I don't want to. Please continue then.

Geesh. Again. You show your ignorance. It has nothing to do with the King James edition. Byzantine manuscripts predate the 4th century. There are many bible based upon the so called "Byzantine textform". The earliest witnesses are in Byzantine textform for many manuscripts throughout the NT. Don't believe this silliness you're reading. If you ever care to actually know the evidence, then you'll reference manuscripts. You can't. You don't know how.



The NIV isn't taken from manuscripts. It is taken from a edited text referenced as the "4th edition of the UBS Greek New Testament" or the "UBS4".

Just one of the many examples that refer to the most ancient of authorities. I've already looked it up. You haven't even bothered following the bread crumbs to find out how your Bible got altered by Trins looking to give credibility to their religion?

Such people love it when men like yourself don't ask questions.

I have a lot of questions. You aren't ready to listen are you? You're anti-Christ. I have already seen your threads trashing Unitarians. You got a lot of hate in your heart, but I forgive you anyway.

 

[Runningman]

Do you believe Jesus is the Christ?

Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, my Lord and Savior. I believe it in my heart, confess it with my mouth, I've seen him face to face, and God raised him from the dead. Do you believe that God raised him from the dead or that Jesus raised Jesus from the dead?

No I am not in the Islamic religion. No I am not a Muslim.

Yes, I am a Christian.