The unending requirement of faith

[praise_yeshua]

I don't avoid questions unless I don't understand what is being asked or it's a stupid question. I'm writing about the faith of Jesus Christ and you I think is writing about your faith. Perhaps that is why we don't understand each other.

"Stupid" question?? How kind of you....

You made comments about the "new covenant" relationship with the Father and the Son..... I would not throw around the "stupid" comment if I were you.

I understand what you wrote just fine. The argument is nonsensical until you deal with what I asked relative to the "old covenant". You're preaching that the relationship between the Father and Son... CHANGED.

I drew a contrast between our faith. Surely you can recognize a "contrast" when you see it.

The relationship between the Father and Son is unchanging. Eternal. Immutable. Maybe theology isn't your "thing".

 

[praise_yeshua]

I believe we are justified by the work of Jesus Christ because of his faith.
You believe we are justified because of our work because of our faith.

That is ridiculous. He does not believe this at all.

There is no context of wavering in the work of Christ. You're preaching a false Gospel.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Subject Heading:- 'The unending requirement of faith'

'But without faith it is impossible to please Him:
for he that cometh to God must believe that He is,
and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.
By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet,
moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house;
by the which he condemned the world,
and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.'
(Heb 11:6)

So you actually believe that it was some "faith of Christ" that pleased God????

Someone should have told Jesus..... right? I mean Christ died in vain if all Jesus had to do was "believe the Father"......

Faith and works never mix. Faith causes works. It was the work of Christ that saved humanity.

 

[praise_yeshua]

'Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law,
but by the faith of Jesus Christ,
even we have believed in Jesus Christ,
that we might be justified by the faith of Christ,
and not by the works of the law:
for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.'
Galatians 2:16 (KJV)

Hello @TomL,

With respect, I still believe the KJV has the better wording, not because it is my translation of choice, but because it places the emphasis on Christ Himself, and not upon the believer.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

The Geneva Bible says very clearly....

Gal 2:16 Know that a man is not justified by the works of the Law, but by your faith of Jesus Christ.

 

[TomL]

Uh, I dont recall rejecting that scripture, dont start lying on me now to win a argument.

You have denied the necessity to believe to be saved

So any verse which states that is the case you have rejected

 

[TomL]

Making Faith a requirement for salvation is law keeping. Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

So you will be required to have kept the whole Law for your salvation, and better have kept it perfectly !

Believing scripture is not a work of the law


John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

 

[Peterlag]

"Stupid" question?? How kind of you....

You made comments about the "new covenant" relationship with the Father and the Son..... I would not throw around the "stupid" comment if I were you.

I understand what you wrote just fine. The argument is nonsensical until you deal with what I asked relative to the "old covenant". You're preaching that the relationship between the Father and Son... CHANGED.

I drew a contrast between our faith. Surely you can recognize a "contrast" when you see it.

The relationship between the Father and Son is unchanging. Eternal. Immutable. Maybe theology isn't your "thing".

Are you assuming that when I say I only don't answer questions if I don't understand what is being asked or if it's a stupid question that somehow the stupid part applies to you? See you don't walk in him. The spirit of Christ does not act like you. I know the fruit.

 

[Complete]

Is it we are justified by the work of Jesus Christ because of his faith?
Or is it we believe we are justified by our believing?

'What shall we say then that Abraham our father,
as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
For if Abraham were justified by works,
he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
For what saith the scripture?
Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly,
his faith is counted for righteousness.
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man,
unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
(Rom 4:1-8)

Hello @Peterlag,

I heard the gospel of God concerning His Son the Lord Jesus Christ, and believed what I heard. Faith entered by hearing and I saw my condition before God, and sought the salvation that only He could give, and the righteousness of God was imputed unto me.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[synergy]

Romans 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ...

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ...

Galatians 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ...

Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ...

Hello @civic & @Peterlag,

I do not think that the verses quoted above are a bad translation, and to limit the wording to, 'faith in Christ', is to lose a wealth of meaning which the use of the words, 'by faith of Jesus Christ' provide. Look at the words of Galatians 2:16, which makes a distinction between believing in Jesus Christ, and the faith of Jesus Christ. We are saved by His act of faith in dying in our place, surely: and by believing in Him we are not only acknowledging His person, as the Son of God, but His work, as being all sufficient for the salvation of our souls in the sight of God the Father.

'Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law,
but by the faith of Jesus Christ,
even we have believed in Jesus Christ,
that we might be justified by the faith of Christ,
and not by the works of the law:
for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.'
(Gal 2:16)

Please consider.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Gal 2:16 εἰδότες δὲ ὅτι οὐ δικαιοῦται ἄνθρωπος ἐξ ἔργων νόμου ἐὰν μὴ διὰ πίστεως ᾿Ιησοῦ Χριστοῦ, καὶ ἡμεῖς εἰς Χριστὸν ᾿Ιησοῦν ἐπιστεύσαμεν, ἵνα δικαιωθῶμεν ἐκ πίστεως Χριστοῦ καὶ οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων νόμου, διότι οὐ δικαιωθήσεται ἐξ ἔργων νόμου πᾶσα σάρξ.

διὰ is "by", "through", denotes the channel of the act.
Χριστοῦ denotes possessiveness.
εἰς is "in", Indicates point reached or entered.
ἐκ is "of", denotes origin.

So, I agree with your comments.

For the Calvinists in the audience, this takes nothing away from the fact that it's only by faith in Christ that we are saved. There is no place in Christianity for the Calvinist Hindu-like elect/non-elect caste system.

 

[Peterlag]

'What shall we say then that Abraham our father,
as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
For if Abraham were justified by works,
he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
For what saith the scripture?
Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly,
his faith is counted for righteousness.
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man,
unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
(Rom 4:1-8)

Hello @Peterlag,

I heard the gospel of God concerning His Son the Lord Jesus Christ, and believed what I heard. Faith entered by hearing and I saw my condition before God, and sought the salvation that only He could give, and the righteousness of God was imputed unto me.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Your believing would be going nowhere without first having the faith of Jesus Christ. Without him it's Israel all over again.

 

[synergy]

Your believing would be going nowhere without first having the faith of Jesus Christ. Without him it's Israel all over again.

It would be worse than Israel because the Israelites had the Pre-Incarnate Jesus Christ Who is God.

 

[civic]

You have denied the necessity to believe to be saved

So any verse which states that is the case you have rejected

Yep

 

[civic]

It would be worse than Israel because the Israelites had the Pre-Incarnate Jesus Christ Who is God.

Amen

 

[Complete]

Gal 2:16 εἰδότες δὲ ὅτι οὐ δικαιοῦται ἄνθρωπος ἐξ ἔργων νόμου ἐὰν μὴ διὰ πίστεως ᾿Ιησοῦ Χριστοῦ, καὶ ἡμεῖς εἰς Χριστὸν ᾿Ιησοῦν ἐπιστεύσαμεν, ἵνα δικαιωθῶμεν ἐκ πίστεως Χριστοῦ καὶ οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων νόμου, διότι οὐ δικαιωθήσεται ἐξ ἔργων νόμου πᾶσα σάρξ.

διὰ is "by", "through", denotes the channel of the act.
Χριστοῦ denotes possessiveness.
εἰς is "in", Indicates point reached or entered.
ἐκ is "of", denotes origin.

So, I agree with your comments.

For the Calvinists in the audience, this takes nothing away from the fact that it's only by faith in Christ that we are saved. There is no place in Christianity for the Calvinist Hindu-like elect/non-elect caste system.

Hi @synergy,

Thank you giving this insight.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Complete]

'So then faith cometh by hearing,
and hearing by the word of God.'
(Rom 10:17)

 

[synergy]

Hi @synergy,

Thank you giving this insight.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

I always enjoy challenges that necessitate that we dig into the Koine Greek to arrive at answers.

 

[brightfame52]

You have denied the necessity to believe to be saved

So any verse which states that is the case you have rejected

More misrepresentation, im saying if you make your faith a requirement you meet in order for God to save you, you become a law keeper for God to save you, and you are bound to keep the whole law in order for God to save you.

 

[brightfame52]

Believing scripture is not a work of the law


John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Making Faith a requirement for salvation is law keeping. Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

So you will be required to have kept the whole Law for your salvation, and better have kept it perfectly !

 

[praise_yeshua]

Are you assuming that when I say I only don't answer questions if I don't understand what is being asked or if it's a stupid question that somehow the stupid part applies to you? See you don't walk in him. The spirit of Christ does not act like you. I know the fruit.

You need to study more. Jesus called his own disciple "Satan". Jesus expressed condemnation toward the seed of Abraham.

You're not the husbandman.... You're not the ONE gathering fruit. I'll wait to hear His voice. One day He will speak and you will stand silent. What Christ speaks then will matter.

 

[TomL]

Making Faith a requirement for salvation is law keeping. Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

So you will be required to have kept the whole Law for your salvation, and better have kept it perfectly !

Sorry that is not even remotely close to what it states