Imputation of the Righteousness of Christ.

Wow. You searched a commentary and posted the comments. I can do the same thing. How many different ones do you want me to post? How many commentaries of Phil 3:9 are they?

Cambridge is Anglican. I thought you were Wesleyan? Why not post what John Wesley wrote. You do celebrate your idol right? Do you celebrate Aldersgate Day right? Christmas in May?

The world is full of idols and you certain love to quote them.
The question, PY, as it always is, is whether or not the information in the statement is true.

But rather than falsifying the proposition (whoever made it), you ridicule me for quoting it. The only thing that matters is if the information is true or not.

Doug
 
Please establishes the flawless nature of Rick Brannan. I'll wait.
Rather you establish your expertise. Provide reason for any to trust your claim over that of a published expert


I have access to the exact same information that anyone does. I know the subject. I don't let others think for me.
No actually you don't. Lexicons typically have access to data the average man simply does not.

Why did you "shift" experts? Rick Brannan did not include this in his "version". So much for your "expert"... "on staff".

I'm not going to respond to you any further if you keeping doing what @TibiasDad is doing. I have as much right to claim expertise in this subject than anyone else. If you're going to endless question me on what I say "at face value" then you can talk to someone else.
You can claim whatever you want . I doubt however any are going to accept your self approval above that of the lexical resources

Shift experts ? I do not know what you are talking about
This is immoral and unethical. @The Rogue Tomato is right about many of you. You make horribly inept arguments and then appeal externally to "experts" you don't even understand. I'm done with you if that how you're going to act.

Anyone can lie and misrepresent others but I'm not going to let any of you do this to me. You can have this place and we'll see what God has to say about it.
What is immoral and unethical is your ascribing to others nefarious motives. As you judge you will be judged

How about you just responding to what was written by way of rebuttal

 
The question, PY, as it always is, is whether or not the information in the statement is true.

But rather than falsifying the proposition (whoever made it), you ridicule me for quoting it. The only thing that matters is if the information is true or not.

Doug
Sure it does. You quote others that your feel make the arguments you prefer. All men do it. I posted content from scholars that disagree with you. It becomes just a copy and paste competition.
 
Nope



And?







so Christ is as I stated the object of faith. Other than that I would see little reason to affirm the Hyper Calvinist John Gill

In any case scripture account ones faith for righteousness

Romans 4:1–5 (NIV) — 1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

Romans 4:9–11 (NIV) — 9 Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness. 10 Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before! 11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.

4x in this passage

The clearness of this passage eliminates any need for another interpretation

Adam Clark

Nothing there about imputation of the righteousness of another

Adam Clarke decries the imputation of our sin to Christ


The Septuagint translate the Hebrew word by ἁμαρτια in ninety-four places in Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers, where a sin-offering is meant; and where our version translates the word not sin, but an offering for sin. Had our translators attended to their own method of translating the word in other places where it means the same as here, they would not have given this false view of a passage which has been made the foundation of a most blasphemous doctrine; viz. that our sins were imputed to Christ, and that he was a proper object of the indignation of Divine justice, because he was blackened with imputed sin; and some have proceeded so far in this blasphemous career as to say, that Christ may be considered as the greatest of sinners, because all the sins of mankind, or of the elect, as they say, were imputed to him, and reckoned as his own.

Adam Clarke, The Holy Bible with a Commentary and Critical Notes (vol. 6, New Edition.; Bellingham, WA: Faithlife Corporation, 2014), 338–339.






I think you read too little of Barne's. he is not speaking of the imputed righteousness of another

And be found in him. That is, united to him by a living faith. The idea is, that when the investigations of the great day should take place in regard to the ground of salvation, it might be found that he was united to the Redeemer and depended solely on his merits for salvation; comp. Notes on John 6:56.
Not having mine own righteousness. That is, not relying on that for salvation. This was now the great aim of Paul, that it might be found at last that he was not trusting to his own merits, but to those of the Lord Jesus.
Which is of the law; see Notes on Rom. 10:3. The “righteousness which is of the law” is that which could be obtained by conformity to the precepts of the Jewish religion, such as Paul had endeavoured to obtain before he became a Christian. He now saw that no one complied perfectly with the holy law of God, and that all dependence on such a righteousness was vain. All men by nature seek salvation by the law. They set up some standard which they mean to comply with, and expect to be saved by conformity to that. With some it is the law of honour, with others the laws of honesty, with others the law of kindness and courtesy, and with others the law of God. If they comply with the requirements of these laws, they suppose that they will be safe, and it is only the grace of God showing them how defective their standard is, or how far they come from complying with its demands, that can ever bring them from this dangerous dependence. Paul in early life depended on his compliance with the laws of God as he understood them, and supposed that he was safe. When he was brought to realize his true condition, he saw how far short he had come of what the law of God required, and that all dependence on his own works was vain.


Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Ephesians, Philippians & Colossians (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 195–196.

rather

But that which is through the faith of Christ. That justification which is obtained by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ; see Notes on Rom. 1:17; 3:24; 4:5

Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Ephesians, Philippians & Colossians (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 196.

and in regard to Rom 4:3

And it. The word “it” here evidently refers to the act of believing. It does not refer to the righteousness of another—of God, or of the Messiah; but the discussion is solely of the strong act of Abraham’s faith, which in some sense was counted to him for righteousness. In what sense this was, is explained directly after

Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Romans (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 95.
It is so very difficult to have a meaningful debate with you...

As I've said, I don't care about other men's commentary. You can be like them if you like. Go for it.
Righteousness itself is established in the Character of God alone.
It is not innate to us apart from believing God is who He has said He is. Such brings guilt and conviction. An acknowledgement of personal inadequacy.
 
Rather you establish your expertise. Provide reason for any to trust your claim over that of a published expert



No actually you don't. Lexicons typically have access to data the average man simply does not.


You can claim whatever you want . I doubt however any are going to accept your self approval above that of the lexical resources

Shift experts ? I do not know what you are talking about

What is immoral and unethical is your ascribing to others nefarious motives. As you judge you will be judged

How about you just responding to what was written by way of rebuttal

Do you know how.many times I've been through these arguments before. You're new to this. I've been hard on you but you don't know what an argument from authority is.... If you did and had settled what establishes authority in your theology you wouldn't make these arguments....

I told you I have access to the same materials. I've studied them. Scholars argue degrees and credentials.... not realizing such is all based on some man's approval. Guess what, it is all circular nonsense. Men rewarding men. They have their reward. I'll wait for approval.
 
Only because you are cutting the verse short and not allowing it to speak for itself

Philippians 3:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law,

The point is Paul is decrying a righteousness earned by following law

That is certainly not Paul's point. It's easier to understand Paul if you know the Law as he did and remember that he used to be a Pharisee.

I would advocate that you read and understand Isaiah 1, as Paul understood. When you do, you will find the following.

Is. 1: 2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me. 3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the *** his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.

4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.

5 Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. 6 From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.

This is describing the Pharisees, just as Jesus described the Pharisees. These men were not trying to "Earn" God's favor or God's grace, or Salvation by following the Law. There are "many" deceivers "who come in Christ's Name" that convince people of the insidious lie, that the Pharisees were trying to earn salvation by obedience to God. But I am hoping you might consider what is actually written. Consider what this "Seed of evil doers" did to justify themselves.

10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah. 11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. 12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?

These men, "who professed to know God", rejected God's Commandments by their own religious traditions. They despised God's Judgments and polluted His Sabbaths. And yet every week they would come to Him with the Blood of an innocent being, for the remission of their sins, as required by the LAW. And when the next day came, they continued in their rebellion against God.

What did God want from them?

Is. 1: 16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; 17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. 18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. 19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: 20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

The "Faith of Jesus" would be believing in this God enough to be a "Doer" of His and His Son's sayings. Paul knew the Commandment of God and the Lord's Christ to His people, "Be ye perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect". If a man would consider all of Paul's message in this chapter, he would understand Paul's point. Here, lets read what Paul actually teaches in Phil. 3. by reading what you left out.

10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

11 If by any means "I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead".

12 "Not as though I had already attained", either were already perfect: "but I follow after", if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God (Which is) "in Christ Jesus". (Be ye perfect, like Jesus)

15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you

Paul's point was that HE wasn't righteous because he brought a goat to the Levite Priest, as per the Law, as the Pharisees were still promoting. He has already proven that by the "Works of the Law" no flesh is justified. No, HE strived against Sin, to be found perfect before God. Why? Because HE understood Is. 1, and what God wants from all men. As he also tells us in Rom. 2: 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Repent, (Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes) Turn to God, and bring forth works worthy of repentance.

This is what Paul teaches. Paul was not decrying a righteousness that comes from "Yielding oneself" a servant to obey God. And the Pharisees were not trying to "earn" Salvation by humbling themselves in obedience to God. I know this is what you have been taught by this world's religions, but it is a false teaching. I hope you might consider what is actually written.
 
Do you know how.many times I've been through these arguments before. You're new to this. I've been hard on you but you don't know what an argument from authority is.... If you did and had settled what establishes authority in your theology you wouldn't make these arguments....
Why don't you simply address the arguments instead of people. I addressed the commentary you provided and showed how you took out of context of the verse you quoted. You did the same with Barne's. You quoted Clarke who is a strong opponent of imputation refering to a transfer of sin or righteousness to another. I also posted scripture with four instances where it is stated that it is ones faith which is counted for righteousness

Btw you employed partial citiation which totally distorted the meaning of text while you have been accusing and disrespectful not just to me but Doug as well

And BTW

The appeal to authority is a fallacy of irrelevance when the authority being cited is not really an authority. (of the subject matter)


The appeal to (false or irrelevant) authority is a fallacy in which a rhetor (public speaker or writer) seeks to persuade an audience not by giving evidence but by appealing to the respect people have for the famous.

The Appeal to (Irrelevant) Authority (Logical Fallacy) - ThoughtCo

www.thoughtco.com/appeal-to-authority-logical-fallacy-1689120
www.thoughtco.com/appeal-to-authority-logical-fallacy-1689120

Legitimate Appeal to Authority​

Legitimate appeals to authority involve testimony from individuals who are truly experts in their fields and are giving advice that is within the realm of their expertise, such as a real estate lawyer giving advice about real estate law, or a physician giving a patient medical advice.
 
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That is certainly not Paul's point. It's easier to understand Paul if you know the Law as he did and remember that he used to be a Pharisee.

I would advocate that you read and understand Isaiah 1, as Paul understood. When you do, you will find the following.

Is. 1: 2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me. 3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the *** his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.

4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.

5 Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. 6 From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.

This is describing the Pharisees, just as Jesus described the Pharisees. These men were not trying to "Earn" God's favor or God's grace, or Salvation by following the Law. There are "many" deceivers "who come in Christ's Name" that convince people of the insidious lie, that the Pharisees were trying to earn salvation by obedience to God. But I am hoping you might consider what is actually written. Consider what this "Seed of evil doers" did to justify themselves.

10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah. 11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. 12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?

These men, "who professed to know God", rejected God's Commandments by their own religious traditions. They despised God's Judgments and polluted His Sabbaths. And yet every week they would come to Him with the Blood of an innocent being, for the remission of their sins, as required by the LAW. And when the next day came, they continued in their rebellion against God.

What did God want from them?

Is. 1: 16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; 17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. 18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. 19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: 20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

The "Faith of Jesus" would be believing in this God enough to be a "Doer" of His and His Son's sayings. Paul knew the Commandment of God and the Lord's Christ to His people, "Be ye perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect". If a man would consider all of Paul's message in this chapter, he would understand Paul's point. Here, lets read what Paul actually teaches in Phil. 3. by reading what you left out.

10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

11 If by any means "I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead".

12 "Not as though I had already attained", either were already perfect: "but I follow after", if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God (Which is) "in Christ Jesus". (Be ye perfect, like Jesus)

15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you

Paul's point was that HE wasn't righteous because he brought a goat to the Levite Priest, as per the Law, as the Pharisees were still promoting. He has already proven that by the "Works of the Law" no flesh is justified. No, HE strived against Sin, to be found perfect before God. Why? Because HE understood Is. 1, and what God wants from all men. As he also tells us in Rom. 2: 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Repent, (Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes) Turn to God, and bring forth works worthy of repentance.

This is what Paul teaches. Paul was not decrying a righteousness that comes from "Yielding oneself" a servant to obey God. And the Pharisees were not trying to "earn" Salvation by humbling themselves in obedience to God. I know this is what you have been taught by this world's religions, but it is a false teaching. I hope you might consider what is actually written.
Paul I believe is pretty clear

Philippians 3:9 (NASB 2020) — 9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,

So i cannot agree with you

as for the pharisees (one must assume they are included in the term Israel)

Romans 9:30–32 (NASB 2020) — 30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, but the righteousness that is by faith; 31 however, Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. 32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though they could by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,
 
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