The Trinity and all of its supporting doctrines are all circular in reasoning

[Doug Brents]

There is no record of Jesus being anywhere other than the grave after his death and before God resurrected him. I am inclined to believe the evidence of Scripture on this point. Jesus was dead, his soul was in the grave.


So if someone is in the grave, Hades, then that means they are dead right? They aren't living anymore.

Acts 2
27because You will not abandon my soul to Hades,
nor will You let Your Holy One see decay.
31Foreseeing this, David spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that He was not abandoned to Hades, nor did His body see decay.

Again, evidences that something IS dead. But what MAKES something dead? How does something become dead? What is death?

 

[amazing grace]

One can be spiritually and physically dead, and not the same

I agree being spiritually dead and physically dead are not the same. BUT Doug Brents is playing games and doesn't specify either way.

Spiritually dead is without God and Christ.
Physically dead is without life, without any biological functions - no breath, no heartbeat, no brain function.

 

[Doug Brents]

I agree being spiritually dead and physically dead are not the same. BUT Doug Brents is playing games and doesn't specify either way.

Spiritually dead is without God and Christ.
Physically dead is without life, without any biological functions - no breath, no heartbeat, no brain function.

I am not playing games of any kind.

You are correct that there is spiritual death and there is physical death. They are different, but they have a connection. What is the connection? In both cases, the cause of death is the same. What is it?

 

[amazing grace]

I am not playing games of any kind.

You are correct that there is spiritual death and there is physical death. They are different, but they have a connection. What is the connection? In both cases, the cause of death is the same. What is it?

You are playing games - You have a point to make just make it.

Spiritually dead is without God and Christ.
Physically dead is without life, without any biological functions - no breath, no heartbeat, no brain function.

The similarities - if one is spiritually dead they have no spiritual life.
If one is physically dead they have no physical life.

 

[Doug Brents]

The similarities - if one is spiritually dead they have no spiritual life.
If one is physically dead they have no physical life.

Obviously, but too simplistic. Look deeper.

 

[amazing grace]

Obviously, but too simplistic. Look deeper.

No thanks. When you present your premise - I may respond.

 

[Doug Brents]

No thanks. When you present your premise - I may respond.

It amazes me how little people want to think these days.

 

[Runningman]

Again, evidences that something IS dead. But what MAKES something dead? How does something become dead? What is death?

So now that we have proven that Jesus' body and soul is in the grave, it means Jesus was not alive at all. Read the Acts 2 narrative I keep pointing you to. God resurrected Jesus bodily from the grave and also his soul from Hades, also known as the grave. Jesus was dead and he didn't even participate in his own resurrection. No where does the Bible even say such.

 

[Doug Brents]

So now that we have proven that Jesus' body and soul is in the grave, it means Jesus was not alive at all. Read the Acts 2 narrative I keep pointing you to. God resurrected Jesus bodily from the grave and also his soul from Hades, also known as the grave. Jesus was dead and he didn't even participate in his own resurrection. No where does the Bible even say such.

Again, that doesn't address what made Him dead. All of what you are saying is painfully obvious in Scripture (except for Jesus' soul being in the grave as well), but it does not address what death is. Quit giving examples of Jesus being dead and address the question: WHAT IS DEATH?

 

[Runningman]

Again, that doesn't address what made Him dead. All of what you are saying is painfully obvious in Scripture (except for Jesus' soul being in the grave as well), but it does not address what death is. Quit giving examples of Jesus being dead and address the question: WHAT IS DEATH?

In the context of Jesus' sacrifice, Scripture says he was killed. So he was not alive anymore. Jesus ceased to exist in any conscious or disembodied form until God resurrected him again. Why? Because Jesus' body, soul, and spirit was sacrificed as Scripture requires.

Yes, and I answered you directly and clearly about what death is in post #2273. Let me guess, you have a different definition of death in mind? Is it the "death means separation from God" definition that most trinitarians seem to use?

 

[amazing grace]

Again, that doesn't address what made Him dead. All of what you are saying is painfully obvious in Scripture (except for Jesus' soul being in the grave as well), but it does not address what death is. Quit giving examples of Jesus being dead and address the question: WHAT IS DEATH?

What made him dead? He was killed, he was crucified. He hung on the cross until he breathed his last.
It is going to boil down to one's meaning of 'soul' and one's meaning of 'spirit' and keeping those terms separate and distinct.

 

[JesusFan]

So now that we have proven that Jesus' body and soul is in the grave, it means Jesus was not alive at all. Read the Acts 2 narrative I keep pointing you to. God resurrected Jesus bodily from the grave and also his soul from Hades, also known as the grave. Jesus was dead and he didn't even participate in his own resurrection. No where does the Bible even say such.

His body was physical dead, but his soul/spirit went into hades and when he arose from there he took the spirits of the OT saved back with him into heaven