Christendom's Trinity: Where Did It Come From?

[Doug Brents]

Where does John 1:1 say the 'logos OF God'? The words logos he spoke are not HIM but the express who He is just as your words express who you are.......

"In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God." - John 1:1-2
Your belief that the Logos was just the words God spoke is disproved by John 1:1. The Logos was not just the words spoken by God, but WAS WITH God and WAS God at the same time. The words you speak are not you. The words you speak are not "WITH" you. They come out of you.

people can know what kind of person you are from the words you speak, whether you are trustworthy, truthful, etc. Your words EXPRESS who you are --- the logos is God in that the logos is the full expression of God --- that fully expression of God was embodied in the only Son from the Father, Jesus.

smh, heavy sigh. Continuing is pointless.

Since Yahweh is the Father when it says "I am Yahweh who made all things"; it is the Father speaking.

Where does Scripture say that "Yahweh is the Father"?

Jesus is not the LORD when it is capitalized in the OT. It is capitalized to show that it is the personal name of God - Yahweh.
That practice was not carried over to the NT so we discern who is the "Lord" being spoken of by the context. If it is referring to God, the Most High, the Almighty or if it is referring to our Lord Jesus Christ.

Isaiah is a Messianic prophecy but it also was directed to a living king at the time.
Many scriptures considered Messianic prophecies did have a direct, immediate application to another person or historical event at the time they were written. It's a concept of TYPE or DOUBLE FULFILLMENT where a prophecy concerns a contemporary figure and then an 'ultimate, far-term' fulfillment concerning Jesus.

For example: 2 Samuel 7:14
Through this prophecy God promised King David a descendant who would build a temple and whose kingdom would last forever. This primarily referred to Solomon, David's son, who built the first Temple. Yet, Jesus, a descendant of David - the ultimate "Son of David" is the one from the Davidic lineage who establishes an eternal, spiritual kingdom.

Isaiah 9:6 is the same - it is understood in historical-critical contexts to have an immediate reference to a child born at that time, often identified as King Hezekiah, son of King Ahaz, as a immediate sign of hope during the Assyrian crisis. Then an ultimate fulfillment in Jesus, the 'child born of a virgin' given the royal titles for a Davidic heir, the descendant of David whose rule and kingdom would last forever. Traditional Jewish commentators often focus on the historical context, viewing the "child" as Hezekiah and the titles as referring to God working through him, rather than the child himself being divine.

There is no point in continuing this discussion. You are not trying to learn, nor are you open to being taught the truth. You are stuck in your false belief, and as I said before, I will continue to instruct you as long as you are seeking to understand and accept the truth. You have failed the test.

 

[amazing grace]

"In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God." - John 1:1-2
Your belief that the Logos was just the words God spoke is disproved by John 1:1. The Logos was not just the words spoken by God, but WAS WITH God and WAS God at the same time. The words you speak are not you. The words you speak are not "WITH" you. They come out of you.

smh, heavy sigh. Continuing is pointless.

Yes, continuing to base one's entire doctrine on the prologue of the Gospel of John alone is pointless considering the author of the Gospel of John would not have come in and contradicted the whole of the Old Testament nor the synoptic Gospels.

You have the prologue of John teaching that Jesus is God yet the purpose behind the Gospel of John is:
Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. [John 20:31]

Where does Scripture say that "Yahweh is the Father"?

What is God's personal name? LORD, aka Yahweh
Who is our Father? God, aka LORD, aka Yahweh
Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? Why then are we faithless to one another, profaning the covenant of our fathers? [Malachi 2:10]

There is no point in continuing this discussion. You are not trying to learn, nor are you open to being taught the truth. You are stuck in your false belief, and as I said before, I will continue to instruct you as long as you are seeking to understand and accept the truth. You have failed the test.

I actually thought you had quit responding to me.
Why would I want to learn something I CAME OUT OF and TURNED toward the TRUTH?

Being a Unitarian perfectly aligns with the totality of the approxiamately 31,000 verses of scripture in the Bible
(uni is a prefix which means one and the suffix tarian characterizes my belief principal or system)
A belief in ONE God and that ONE God is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ ALONE.

 

[Doug Brents]

Yes, continuing to base one's entire doctrine on the prologue of the Gospel of John alone is pointless considering the author of the Gospel of John would not have come in and contradicted the whole of the Old Testament nor the synoptic Gospels.

You have the prologue of John teaching that Jesus is God yet the purpose behind the Gospel of John is:
Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. [John 20:31]

The purpose statement in John 20:31 is looking back at all of what John wrote as directed by God. His conclusion would not contradict his prologue. Which has the more direct, explicit language? The prologue does. Which means that it is the prologue to which we must look for the meaning of what "Son of God" has; of who the Christ is.

What is God's personal name? LORD, aka Yahweh
Who is our Father? God, aka LORD, aka Yahweh
Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? Why then are we faithless to one another, profaning the covenant of our fathers? [Malachi 2:10]

LORD is not a name. It is a descriptor, like "father", "brother", "priest", etc. YHWH is not a name.

I actually thought you had quit responding to me.
Why would I want to learn something I CAME OUT OF and TURNED toward the TRUTH?

Because you turned FROM the truth into Satan's lies.

Being a Unitarian perfectly aligns with the totality of the approxiamately 31,000 verses of scripture in the Bible
(uni is a prefix which means one and the suffix tarian characterizes my belief principal or system)
A belief in ONE God and that ONE God is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ ALONE.

Good luck with that. I pray that God (the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) overlook your blasphemy of the Son and Holy Spirit when you stand before God at Judgement.

 

[amazing grace]

The purpose statement in John 20:31 is looking back at all of what John wrote as directed by God. His conclusion would not contradict his prologue. Which has the more direct, explicit language? The prologue does. Which means that it is the prologue to which we must look for the meaning of what "Son of God" has; of who the Christ is.

The purpose statement is a purpose statement -- a conclusion of what the author's written purpose was as directed by God.
The purpose statement DOES NOT line up with what Trinitarians say the prologue presents, i.e. Jesus is God.
The purpose statement DOES NOT does not say: Previously Jesus did many other signs in the presenced of the disciples, which are not written in this book, this gospel but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is God, and by believing you may have life in his name.
Which is the more direct, explicit language? so that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God and by believing you may have life in his name.
The meaning of the Son of God? The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore (for this very reason) the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.
Who is the Messiah? He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. There are way too many verses to quote here which tell us plainly and clearly who the man, Jesus, is........

LORD is not a name. It is a descriptor, like "father", "brother", "priest", etc. YHWH is not a name.

God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘The LORD (יַהְוֶה proper name, of deity Yahweh, the proper name of the God of Israel), the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.
There is a reason why the transcribers capitalized the word LORD in the OT when speaking of the LORD God, the LORD God Almighty, etc.

Because you turned FROM the truth into Satan's lies.

I disagree.

Good luck with that. I pray that God (the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) overlook your blasphemy of the Son and Holy Spirit when you stand before God at Judgement.

I pray that God, the Father, the only true God overlooks one's idolatry.
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

Thank you for your prayers.