Doug Brents
Active Member
As I said, I would try to lead you to the Truth until you demonstrated that you were beyond hope. You have now done so.
The Trinity and all of its supporting doctrines are all circular in reasoning
- Thread starter Runningman
- Start date
Runningman
Active Member
You couldn't possibly have any idea what on earth you are talking about if you think God died. So I am going to put you on pause right off the bat instead of entertaining the rest of your nonsense.
Let's see if you even believe the Bible.
Do you know what it means to be immortal? It means someone cannot die, not even once, ever, even if they wanted to. So your statement about "God died" is a biblical impossibility, but Jesus did die. Got it?
1 Timothy 5
16He alone is immortal and dwells in unapproachable light. No one has ever seen Him, nor can anyone see Him. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.
Doug Brents
Active Member
What a pathetic attempt at reason.
Since you cannot read past a few words you don't understand, you are not worthy of continued discussion.
One final thought for you: what is death? When you figure it out, come back and maybe we can continue this discussion. Till then, peace.
amazing grace
Active Member
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error. [1 John 4:1-3,6]
Confessing that God has come in the flesh is not the same as confessing Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. There is no Jesus Christ, no Messiah because your doctrine says he is God. You have no savior because God cannot die - he alone inherently has immortality so he did not die for your sins.
Runningman
Active Member
Let me ask you a question. Are human bodies what are sinful or sinless or is it their soul/spirit?
Doug Brents
Active Member
Are you a body? or a spirit? or both at the same time?
Runningman
Active Member
Both. So is Jesus right?
Doug Brents
Active Member
If you are both, and Jesus said that you are righteous, does that mean that your body only is righteous while you spirit is still sinful? Or that your body is still sinful but your spirit is righteous? Or that both are righteous together?
Runningman
Active Member
The things that make someone righteous or sinful are unrelated to the physical.
Let me ask you a question slightly modified. Is it the physical that makes someone sinful or sinless or is it their soul/spirit?
Matthew 15
10Jesus called the crowd to Him and said, “Listen and understand. 11A man is not defiled by what enters his mouth, but by what comes out of it.”
16“Do you still not understand?” Jesus asked. 17“Do you not yet realize that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then is eliminated? 18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these things defile a man. 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, and slander. 20These are what defile a man, but eating with unwashed hands does not defile him.”
Doug Brents
Active Member
You are leading down a rabbit trail that is meaningless. Yet you still have not answered my question:
What is death? What does death mean? When you can answer that correctly, then we can discuss what makes a man sinful.
Runningman
Active Member
Your "God died" statement is what got you to the point of being shown the difference between the body and spirit regardless of how they are related.
So even though Jesus' body died, Jesus taught that it isn't the physical that defiles someone or makes them righteous, but rather the spiritual. So the sinless sacrifice of Jesus couldn't have been a body only, but also Jesus soul/spirit. So the sacrifice of Jesus was all of Jesus: body, soul, and spirit. This only makes sense if Jesus isn't God because God cannot and does not die, nor does a part of God die. This is a necessary conclusion. Knowing this will also help you understand the sacrifice of Jesus better.
Doug Brents
Active Member
What does it mean to "die"? What is "death"?
Runningman
Active Member
In the context of Jesus' sacrifice, Scripture says he was killed. So he was not alive anymore. Jesus ceased to exist in any conscious or disembodied form until God resurrected him again. Why? Because Jesus' body, soul, and spirit was sacrificed as Scripture requires.
Doug Brents
Active Member
You say that Jesus ceased to exist when He died. His body didn't disappear; it was still there to be taken off the cross and buried. So how did He cease to exist?
Because that doesn't answer the question. What is death? What does it mean that someone died?
amazing grace
Active Member
Death is the cessation of all biological functions that sustain a living organism, including heartbeat, breathing, and brain activity.
Jesus died. Jesus quit breathing - all biological functions that sustained him - ceased. His body was taken off the cross and placed in a tomb for three days and three nights and God raised him from the dead. Jesus is now in his resurrected spiritual body of flesh and bone.
Doug Brents
Active Member
You are describing evidences of the death of the physical body.
But that doesn't answer the question of: what is death?
amazing grace
Active Member
I described death and what it is to be dead. Being dead is the absence of life. Being dead means one is not alive. What else is there?
If you do not agree you can at least give your reasoning for your disagreement.
What do you consider death?
Doug Brents
Active Member
I will say as soon as @Runningman gives an answer.
One can be spiritually and physically dead, and not the same
Runningman
Active Member
There is no record of Jesus being anywhere other than the grave after his death and before God resurrected him. I am inclined to believe the evidence of Scripture on this point. Jesus was dead, his soul was in the grave.
So if someone is in the grave, Hades, then that means they are dead right? They aren't living anymore.
Acts 2
27because You will not abandon my soul to Hades,
nor will You let Your Holy One see decay.
31Foreseeing this, David spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that He was not abandoned to Hades, nor did His body see decay.
Similar threads
