The Trinity and all of its supporting doctrines are all circular in reasoning

[Doug Brents]

Yes the life is in Jesus because God have it to him, not that Jesus is eternal life. Eternal life is something Jesus received, not something he is or already had in the first place.

Jesus is the Life (John 14:6). All life came from and through Jesus (Col 1:17, John 1:1-3). Jesus didn't need to "receive" eternal life. He is eternal Himself, having existed since before the Beginning (John 1:1), and existing through all eternity (Revelation 1:8, 1:11, 21:6, and 22:13).

Eternal life is something that was with the Father, yes, but Jesus didn't pre-exist with the Father.

Wrong. See verses above.

Eternal life was given to Jesus from the Father and then Jesus gave it to others after he was already an adult, not when he was a baby or before he was born.

John 5
26For as the Father has life in Himself, so also He has granted the Son to have life in Himself.

Eternal life was something that Jesus emptied Himself of when He humbled Himself and became a man. John 5:26 simply says that the Father gave it back.

 

[synergy]

Because Jesus was talking about a thing, flesh, not a person. Flesh is a thing and so is the Word. You have only provided additional argumentation against "the Word" being a person. Also, a spirit is a thing in this context. There are many spirits in the Bible that are not persons, but they can be a person depending on the context. For example, we know God is a Spirit, but not a thing. I will have to use the verse you supplied to supplement my original point. Thank you disproving the Word is a person with me.

Your heretical view fails miserably because nobody in their right mind has fellowship with a thing. See 1 John 1:3.

3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us.

Only lunatics like unitarians have fellowship with things. Normal people have fellowship with persons—explicitly “with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ" and all believers in this case. To reduce the Word to a “thing” is therefore to contradict John’s own witness across both works, where the Word is encountered, revealed, related to, and shared in communion, which decisively affirms personal identity rather than impersonal substance.

 

[amazing grace]

You're kindof right; He wasn't a man, until He became one (Jesus); He emptied Himself in Heaven (Phil 2:7), took on flesh (John 1:14), and lived a life as a human man who died to pay the price for our sins.

If God says He's not a man then He is not a man; PERIOD - doesn't matter OT or NT and anything else is a lie.
God becoming a man is completely contradictory to who He is........

Yes, Jesus did accomplish what the Father sent Him to do. But as noted in Scripture, Jesus wasn't just a man, He was God in the flesh.

Then Jesus didn't accomplish what God the Father sent him to do ---- God in the flesh accomplished what God the Father sent him to do. . . . . No big deal there God is omnipotent, omniscient, etc.

You are wrong. God (a singular noun denoting the multiple beings that make Him up (like a couple)) was talking within the members of Himself (the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (not some fictitious "heavenly court" which is not mentioned in Scripture anywhere)), and then God (the whole of the trinity that makes Him up) acted in creating man. If you believe that it was only one being involved in creating man, then you must admit that it was Jesus (the Word of God) who did the creating (John 1:3).

Actually elohim is a plural noun BUT is recognized as a singular when used with singular nouns and pronouns.
“Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements—surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" [Job 38:4-7]
The host of heaven, i.e. the angels aka the sons of God were in the beginning with God and were witnesses of his creation so it would naturally follow that God was speaking with the angels.

No, I don't have to admit to what I believe is not the truth ---- I believe that the author of John @ John 1:3 is talking about God's word, i.e. God spoke creation into being. God's word is being personified as 'he' just as God's wisdom is personified as a 'she' in Proverbs.

I am a Christ follower. I am not affiliated with any "denomination" or division or splinter group from God's Church.

Again, God is made up of three separate beings. We know them as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three have separate functions, but the same glory, power, purpose, etc.

You are a triune being yourself. You have a physical body, a spirit, and a soul. These three have different functions, but they are all still you.

Yes, a complete person is comprised of a body, soul and a spirit but these are not separate identities of a person.
My body does not function separate from it's soul or spirit nor can it function without either one.
Again, God is an individual God not a Triune God.
God is our Father and Jesus' Father. God is our God and Jesus' God ----- if Jesus has a God then Jesus is not God.
Jesus is the Son of God, the man God anointed to be His Messiah.

As is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are separate beings that make up one God, just like your spirit, soul, and body. Your spirit may talk to your body, and your body respond, and your soul argue with them both, yet you are not insane. Your spirit says obey God, but your body says it wants to satisfy the flesh, and you soul goes back and forth between them. That is the fight that Paul it talking about in Rom 7:14-25.

One God - God as the Father, God as the Son, and God as the holy Spirit count them 1,2,3.........
Okay - you have God the Father who dwells in heaven, then you have God the Son who during his ministry lived on earth - two separate persons (to me two gods but I'll leave that alone).
Now the whole person, which I am comprised of is body, soul, and spirit - but my body can't live in let's say Texas, my soul in Louisiana, and my spirit in Mississippi so these are not separate and distinct persons within me. I would say that it actually doesn't even compare!!!

Paul is talking about the new birth - the flesh and the spirit - which is why we are told to put off the old man and put on the new man.

God = herd. There is only one God/herd. But there are three individuals/cows that make up the God/herd.

God = cluster. There is only one God/culster. But there are three individuals/grapes that make up the God/cluster.

God = couple. There is only one God/couple. But there are three individuals that make up the God/couple.

I said I am done with this topic ---- it has gone over the deep end into stupidity.

You are correct that Jesus was a real man. A real human being who lived a real life. But He was also God, with authority over angels, and was responsible for creating everything that was made.

Jesus would not be considered a real man who is also God.

No diversion. It is the same covenant, it was just renewed with each successive generation. We are discussing the same covenant at Mt Sinai as we are with Abraham.

I never said that Gen 15 says Jesus is God. I said that the fact that God took on the responsibility for both sides of the covenant (His own and ours) points to the fact that Jesus had to be God. In Jesus, God fulfilled His promise to take into Himself the consequences of our breaking the covenant.

Which is meaningless if that is all that it means, because God cannot die, nor can He violate His covenant.

Where does death enter into the context of Genesis 15?

<snip>
In so doing, God stated that if He broke the covenant, He would die. But He also said that if mankind broke the covenant (which we did) the HE, God, He would take the punishment and die in our place. That is JESUS! God came down from Heaven to live the life of a man, yet without sin, and to die in order to pay the price for our breaking of the Covenant.

I had asked you about this earlier:

<snip>
Now, I really would like to know where in the context of Gen. 15 did God state if Abraham broke the covenant he would die or that mankind broke the covenant then HE God, would take the punishment and die in our place. Why do the epistles repeatedly say that Jesus Christ died for our sins?

You never answered ^^^^^

All of this is correct, but you leave out that Jesus was also God. God could not redeem us without there being a perfect kinsman to pay the price for us. Man is incapable of being perfect. So God had to step in and become one of us, to be that perfect sacrifice.

I'm not leaving it out Jesus is not God he is the Son of God ---- Scripture said Jesus was a man - that Jesus was the propitiation for our sins - Jesus was tempted in all things as we are yet without sin ---- the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

Neither of us is capable of being even half of what Jesus was. But the good news is, we don't have to be. We don't even have to be 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of who Jesus was. We just have to trust that He is God, that he came down from Heaven to redeem us, that He is a God who keeps His word, and that He promised that if we trust in Him and do what He commanded us to do, He will forgive our sins and take us to Heaven with Him for eternity.

I can't find anywhere in scripture where I am to believe any of the above.
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. [John 3:16,36]
Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31&nbsp;And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” [Acts 16:30,31]
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” [John 6:40] etc., etc.

 

[Runningman]

Your heretical view fails miserably because nobody in their right mind has fellowship with a thing. See 1 John 1:3.

3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us.

Only lunatics like unitarians have fellowship with things. Normal people have fellowship with persons—explicitly “with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ" and all believers in this case. To reduce the Word to a “thing” is therefore to contradict John’s own witness across both works, where the Word is encountered, revealed, related to, and shared in communion, which decisively affirms personal identity rather than impersonal substance.

Apparently calling Christians lunatics is acceptable here. It would be nice if trinitarians could learn some class. I got that growing up. Maybe some trinitarians just weren't raised right in more ways than one.

As far as 1 John 1:1-3, the fellowship isn't with a thing, but with a person. Jesus is a person, the Word is a thing. Not sure why you would try to change that and then attempt to blame Christians for your own mishandling of Scripture. It's funny how those who accuse are almost always guilty of the thing they are projecting onto others.

 

[Runningman]

Jesus is the Life (John 14:6).

Jesus got his way, truth, and life from God though. Sometimes through learning, observation, or gifts.

Jesus observed/learned the way from God:

John 5​

19So Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does.​

Jesus learned the truth from God;

John 8​

40But now you are trying to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham never did such a thing.​

Jesus Got his life from God:

​

John 5​

26For as the Father has life in Himself, so also He has granted the Son to have life in Himself.​

So what we have learned here is that Jesus being "the way, the truth, and the life" is dependent on what he gained. Again, you have offered nothing relevant to assist you in making Jesus God.

All life came from and through Jesus (Col 1:17, John 1:1-3).

I see you have an unhealthy habit of saying things the Bible doesn't say. The Bible never says "All life came from and through Jesus." I want you to acknowledge these things. I would also like to remind you that you are conversing with people who have read the Bible exhaustively. You aren't going to sneak anything into Scripture.

Jesus didn't need to "receive" eternal life.

I see where you are going wrong everywhere. First of all, yes the Bible does state that Jesus received his (eternal) life:

John 5
26For as the Father has life in Himself, so also He has granted the Son to have life in Himself.

1 John 1
2And this is the life that was revealed; we have seen it and testified to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us.

The way eternal life was revealed was through the teachings Jesus provided to his apostles, not as Jesus himself.

He is eternal Himself, having existed since before the Beginning (John 1:1),

Secondly, the Bible never says Jesus is eternal or "existed since before the beginning." John 1:1 says "In the beginning was the Word" with no reference to the Word existing before the beginning. This actually is a strong argument against the eternality of the Word. Thank you for drawing my attention to that.

and existing through all eternity (Revelation 1:8, 1:11, 21:6, and 22:13).

These make no mention of such. Context doesn't support it. Too much misinformation to really correct it. You probably won't read this far anyway.

Wrong. See verses above.

Eternal life was something that Jesus emptied Himself of when He humbled Himself and became a man. John 5:26 simply says that the Father gave it back.

Now that we have disproven all of your points, interested to see what you will come up with next.

 

[mikesw]

Jesus got his way, truth, and life from God though. Sometimes through learning, observation, or gifts.

Jesus observed/learned the way from God:

John 5​

19So Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does.​

Jesus learned the truth from God;

John 8​

40But now you are trying to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham never did such a thing.​

Jesus Got his life from God:

​

John 5​

26For as the Father has life in Himself, so also He has granted the Son to have life in Himself.​

So what we have learned here is that Jesus being "the way, the truth, and the life" is dependent on what he gained. Again, you have offered nothing relevant to assist you in making Jesus God.

I see you have an unhealthy habit of saying things the Bible doesn't say. The Bible never says "All life came from and through Jesus." I want you to acknowledge these things. I would also like to remind you that you are conversing with people who have read the Bible exhaustively. You aren't going to sneak anything into Scripture.

I see where you are going wrong everywhere. First of all, yes the Bible does state that Jesus received his (eternal) life:

John 5
26For as the Father has life in Himself, so also He has granted the Son to have life in Himself.

1 John 1
2And this is the life that was revealed; we have seen it and testified to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us.

The way eternal life was revealed was through the teachings Jesus provided to his apostles, not as Jesus himself.

Secondly, the Bible never says Jesus is eternal or "existed since before the beginning." John 1:1 says "In the beginning was the Word" with no reference to the Word existing before the beginning. This actually is a strong argument against the eternality of the Word. Thank you for drawing my attention to that.

This is like missing the very words of John 1:1 while trying to talk about John 1:1. The Word was in the beginning but nah the word did not exist in the beginning. I'm not sure how that works out. The only way to deny the eternal sense of Word here is to say God was created.
Then you skip about the prexistent One who became flesh and is named Jesus. There is just no arguing with a Unitarian who can only remember one verse at a time and then forgets even what that verse means.

These make no mention of such. Context doesn't support it. Too much misinformation to really correct it. You probably won't read this far anyway.



Now that we have disproven all of your points, interested to see what you will come up with next.

 

[Runningman]

This is like missing the very words of John 1:1 while trying to talk about John 1:1. The Word was in the beginning but nah the word did not exist in the beginning. I'm not sure how that works out. The only way to deny the eternal sense of Word here is to say God was created.
Then you skip about the prexistent One who became flesh and is named Jesus. There is just no arguing with a Unitarian who can only remember one verse at a time and then forgets even what that verse means.

Let's stick with the topic we were already talking about instead of letting you hunker down on John 1:1 and not budge an inch for the next year. Already did that with you. Your arguments fully support Unitarianism. Such as how John 1:1 makes no reference to the Word existing before the beginning.

 

[mikesw]

Let's stick with the topic we were already talking about instead of letting you hunker down on John 1:1 and not budge an inch for the next year. Already did that with you. Your arguments fully support Unitarianism. Such as how John 1:1 makes no reference to the Word existing before the beginning.

Uhh. "In the beginning" .... or maybe note "In the beginning" Why should I budge from the testimony of John? I forget if you are trying to say here -- maybe that God did not exist until he was created? You neglect all that was revealed by the context Philo and the Greek philosophy concerning logos to which John gave correction.

 

[Runningman]

Uhh. "In the beginning" .... or maybe note "In the beginning" Why should I budge from the testimony of John? I forget if you are trying to say here -- maybe that God did not exist until he was created? You neglect all that was revealed by the context Philo and the Greek philosophy concerning logos to which John gave correction.

Go up and respond in context to my last reply. We have already gone over how the Word is a thing. You can address that.

And about the budging, you won't budge from your errors and I already know what you believe.

 

[mikesw]

Go up and respond in context to my last reply. We have already gone over how the Word is a thing. You can address that.

And about the budging, you won't budge from your errors and I already know what you believe.

Jesus indeed appeared as a thing -- people are considered "things" in the broad sense. If I have any errors, maybe some has an argument against what I have found. Nothing of any logic has been shared against the deity of Christ around this forumn.

 

[Runningman]

Jesus indeed appeared as a thing -- people are considered "things" in the broad sense. If I have any errors, maybe some has an argument against what I have found. Nothing of any logic has been shared against the deity of Christ around this forumn.

Jesus is a person, eternal life is a thing. You know how we're all alive right now? It's because we have a life force in us right now keep us alive. Eventually it ceases and we die. That's why God resurrects some of us eventually. Jesus was the first to receive eternal life. Unlike God who already alone possess eternal life and always has (1 Tim 6:16)

Revelation 1
18the Living One. I was dead, and behold, now I am alive forever and ever! And I hold the keys of Death and of Hades.

So 1 John 1:1-3 is about the Word being a thing. You are misunderstanding what John 1:1 is about.

 

[mikesw]

Jesus is a person, eternal life is a thing. You know how we're all alive right now? It's because we have a life force in us right now keep us alive.

so pre-existence as deity does not qualify Jesus as having eternal life? That life force is his pre-existence as deity

Eventually it ceases and we die. That's why God resurrects some of us eventually. Jesus was the first to receive eternal life. Unlike God who already alone possess eternal life and always has (1 Tim 6:16)

We can say Jesus did not exist immortality in the flesh. So 1 Tim 6:16 is not denying the deity in pre-existence before Christ. But that verse does not deny Jesus being that deity becoming incarnate. It does seem like you were trying to get some coaching while you were away for the holidays

Revelation 1
18the Living One. I was dead, and behold, now I am alive forever and ever! And I hold the keys of Death and of Hades.

Uh duh. Jesus is not going through the cross again.

So 1 John 1:1-3 is about the Word being a thing. You are misunderstanding what John 1:1 is about.

We already showed 1 John 1:1-3 was a different topic. But blending of unrelated topics based on similar words is an error that unitarians typically fall into. So you pulverizing of John 1:1 does not win you in a debate on the true meaning of passages.

 

[Peterlag]

Does anyone know what Paul is talking about with...​

Romans... I say the truth in Christ
Corinthians... speak we in Christ
Philemon... I might be much bold in Christ
Timothy... I speak the truth in Christ
Peter... good conversation in Christ

How do you say the truth "in Christ" or speak "in Christ" or be bold "in Christ"?

 

[Runningman]

so pre-existence as deity does not qualify Jesus as having eternal life? That life force is his pre-existence as deity

That is quite a leap from the Word being a thing to the Word being Jesus to seeming to infer that God is a thing. Do you believe God is a thing? I have actually met a trinitarian who openly admitted he believes God is a thing. He is the owner of one of the lesser well-known apologetics boards that still allows trinity discussions.

We can say Jesus did not exist immortality in the flesh. So 1 Tim 6:16 is not denying the deity in pre-existence before Christ. But that verse does not deny Jesus being that deity becoming incarnate.

Here's a question to get an idea of where you're at. Is Jesus as a human the Son of God?

It does seem like you were trying to get some coaching while you were away for the holidays

Not really. I just went to another board while giving you guys some time to think and come around.

Uh duh. Jesus is not going through the cross again.

The one who said "I was dead, and behold, now I am alive forever and ever!" is the resurrected, glorified, exalted, ascended, etc Jesus. The same one who died is the same one who is temporarily sitting at the right hand of God. Do you think just Jesus' human body is doing the talking or is it the "God Jesus" who said he died and was resurrected? Let me remind you, Jesus before he said he died, he said "“Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one."

We already showed 1 John 1:1-3 was a different topic. But blending of unrelated topics based on similar words is an error that unitarians typically fall into. So you pulverizing of John 1:1 does not win you in a debate on the true meaning of passages.

Do you think the Word in 1 John 1:1-3 should not be capitalized due to all of the theological inconveniences it creates for Trinitarianism? I haven't seen a version that doesn't capitalize it.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Only lunatics like unitarians have fellowship with things.

Could be because that makes it easier pronoun wise? (Oops, my bad)

Normal people have fellowship with persons—explicitly “with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ" and all believers in this case. To reduce the Word to a “thing” is therefore to contradict John’s own witness across both works, where the Word is encountered, revealed, related to, and shared in communion, which decisively affirms personal identity rather than impersonal substance.

 

[Doug Brents]

If God says He's not a man then He is not a man; PERIOD - doesn't matter OT or NT and anything else is a lie.
God becoming a man is completely contradictory to who He is........

Thank you for your opinion. It demonstrates lack of trust in what Scripture says, lack of study of Scripture, and a reliance on humanistic logic.

Then Jesus didn't accomplish what God the Father sent him to do ---- God in the flesh accomplished what God the Father sent him to do. . . . . No big deal there God is omnipotent, omniscient, etc.

Yes, it is a big deal. It took both God and flesh to be and do what was required to save mankind. Man is not capable of being pure enough to be a perfect sacrifice, yet it also required the sacrifice to be completely human in order to be a kinsman redeemer. It requires both God and man in one body to be the savior.

Actually elohim is a plural noun BUT is recognized as a singular when used with singular nouns and pronouns.
“Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements—surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" [Job 38:4-7]
The host of heaven, i.e. the angels aka the sons of God were in the beginning with God and were witnesses of his creation so it would naturally follow that God was speaking with the angels.

Again, thank you for your "logical" opinion. The angels probably were created before the Earth was created, but that is not who God is talking to in Gen 1. The angels are not part of the "us" that is God.

No, I don't have to admit to what I believe is not the truth ---- I believe that the author of John @ John 1:3 is talking about God's word, i.e. God spoke creation into being. God's word is being personified as 'he' just as God's wisdom is personified as a 'she' in Proverbs.

Yet wisdom is never called "God" as the Word is, nor is wisdom ever said to have taken on the flesh of a man and lived among us. The Word is God, and the Word became flesh and lived among us in the man Jesus. THAT MAKES JESUS GOD!!

Yes, a complete person is comprised of a body, soul and a spirit but these are not separate identities of a person.
My body does not function separate from it's soul or spirit nor can it function without either one.

Correct, the body does not. But the spirit and soul can both operate separately form the body and from each other. The flesh is reliant on the spirit and the soul (as James 2:26 states).
But the same is not true of God. Each of the three separate parts of God can and do operate separately from each other, and are no less God separately than they are together.

Again, God is an individual God not a Triune God.

Thank you for your opinion on this. But since it contradicts Scripture, I will ignore your opinion.

God is our Father and Jesus' Father. God is our God and Jesus' God ----- if Jesus has a God then Jesus is not God.
Jesus is the Son of God, the man God anointed to be His Messiah.

Jesus, while He was a man, was less than the Father (He had emptied Himself). But He was God before He emptied Himself, He is God after He ascended back into Heaven, and He was God while He was on Earth in the form of a man.

One God - God as the Father, God as the Son, and God as the holy Spirit count them 1,2,3.........
Okay - you have God the Father who dwells in heaven, then you have God the Son who during his ministry lived on earth - two separate persons (to me two gods but I'll leave that alone).
Now the whole person, which I am comprised of is body, soul, and spirit - but my body can't live in let's say Texas, my soul in Louisiana, and my spirit in Mississippi so these are not separate and distinct persons within me. I would say that it actually doesn't even compare!!!

You are not God, so I would not expect you to have all the traits and characteristics of God.

Where does death enter into the context of Genesis 15?

Keep up with the conversation here: in the culture when Abraham lived, when a person makes a covenant and cuts animals in half (killing them) and then walks between the halves, he is saying, "If I break this covenant, let what has happened to these animals happen to me."

I had asked you about this earlier:

You never answered ^^^^^

I did answer. That is not stated explicitly in that Scripture. It is demonstrated in the passing through the cut pieces which must be understood through the culture of the time. However, breaking a covenant with God is sin. Sin is any breaking of God's Law which is a part of the Covenant God made with mankind. And the penalty for sin is death. So then, the penalty for breaking the covenant with God is death: eternal spiritual separation from the source of all life, God.

Man is completely incapable of repairing that breach. We cannot do anything, say anything, pay anything that would make us right with God again. God, if He wanted a continued relationship with He creation, had to pay that price for us. But He had to do it through one of us; He had to become one of us and go through all the temptations, struggles, trials, etc. that we go through (yet without sinning) in order to pay the cost that we could not pay.

I'm not leaving it out Jesus is not God he is the Son of God ---- Scripture said Jesus was a man - that Jesus was the propitiation for our sins - Jesus was tempted in all things as we are yet without sin ---- the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

Scripture does say that Jesus was a man. But it also says that Jesus was God (Scriptures that you conveniently overlook, reinterpret, or ignore).

I can't find anywhere in scripture where I am to believe any of the above.
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. [John 3:16,36]
Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31&nbsp;And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” [Acts 16:30,31]
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” [John 6:40] etc., etc.

Did Jesus sin? - No. He could not have sinned and still been the propitiation for our sins.
Is it a sin to claim to be God if you are not God? - Yes!
Did Jesus claim to be God? - Yes, several times.
Matt 12:8 - I am the Lord of the Sabbath - Only God is the Lord of the Sabbath
John 8:58 - Before Abraham was, I AM. - Only God is the "I AM". And only God could be present before someone who lived hundreds of years before his own birth.
John 10:30, 33 - Jesus claimed to be one with God
John 20:28 - Thomas called Him God, and He did not dispute or deny it. Accepting worship and accepting being called God (if you are not God) is a sin.
John 8:12 - Jesus is the light of the World - 1 John 1:5 - God is light
Heb 1:8 - the Father calls Jesus God

If Jesus is not God, then the Father lied, Jesus Himself lied, and that means that Jesus cannot be our savior. But if we believe that He is our savior, then He MUST be God.

 

[civic]

You means John prologue in 1John 1 where he explicitly refers to the Word as a thing?

the Word is never said to be a "thing" when it refers to the Son- the Word is a Who, not an it WHO created all things, is before all created things and in WHOM all things exist and those same things came into existence from- The Word who is God. God is not a thing but a Who.

 

[civic]

And the same writer John in his epistle affirms the Word is a WHO, not an it.

Can you fellowship with an it ?

1 John 1:1-3
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.
2The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.
3We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.

Conclusion: ETERNAL LIFE is a who- God. 1 John 5:20. The Eternal Life ( a who ) was with the Father ( 1 John 1:2 ) the same Word who was with God in ( John 1:1) is a WHO- Eternal Life/ the Word is God, a who according to John 1:1, john 17:3-5 and 1 John 5:20.

next fallacy.........

hope this helps !!!

 

[synergy]

Could be because that makes it easier pronoun wise? (Oops, my bad)

The unitarians' continuous ignorance of Greek makes them do wacky things. They ignore how John uses Greek-styled neuter pronouns to refer to abstracted or collective reality and they end up thinking that all neuter pronouns point to things only. That type of thinking would make whoever is born of the Spirit a thing, as in John 3:6: “That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” We can all agree that a thing is not born of Spirit, people are. Unitarians are stuck with their wacky ideas.

 

[civic]

The unitarians' continuous ignorance of Greek makes them do wacky things. They ignore how John uses Greek-styled neuter pronouns to refer to abstracted or collective reality and they end up thinking that all neuter pronouns point to things only. That type of thinking would make whoever is born of the Spirit a thing, as in John 3:6: “That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” We can all agree that a thing is not born of Spirit, people are. Unitarians are stuck with their wacky ideas.

and the Spirit a thing, not God. Scripture says that God dwells in believers and we know God is a Person. Its appears to be very impersonal with the Uni's and God.