The Trinity and all of its supporting doctrines are all circular in reasoning

@amazing grace ~ Why does the spirit go back to God when the flesh dies?

Why does Matt 10:28 say " And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

And better yet.... Do you know who said this. It was said by Jesus.

Do you think he was in error???????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Neither of these speaks to a Complete person . They are as separate as your teeth are from your Hair, or your ears to your feet.

They make up you but they are parts of you independent from each other.
 
@amazing grace ~ Why does the spirit go back to God when the flesh dies?
FreeinChrist - I asked you a question first. When you have answered my question I will respond to yours.
When Ecc. 12:7 says the spirit shall return unto God who gave it --- what is 'spirit'? under ruach - we have as the main definitions wind, breath, mind, spirit . . . under spirit - animation, listed attitudes, dispositions, emotions, mental activity - God's given gift, etc.
(I broke this down simply so I would encourage looking it up for a fuller, lengthier definition) :)

So what goes back to God - I don't believe it is 'animation' we are dead there is no longer animation; mental activity.
Ecc. 9:5,10 says 'the dead no nothing' --- 'no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom is in the grave'; we can't contradict that verse . . . so again, what goes back to God?
So what is 'spirit'? What goes back to God?
Your soul and spirit do not die. It is the flesh that does.

You do not believe in the tripartite of man. :eek:
I believe that a COMPLETE person is made up of a body, a soul, and a spirit. The body is flesh, the soul is the breath and the spirit of man is the seat of emotions, characteristics, dispositions - that which animates the person.

Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I am nothing without my body, I am nothing without my soul, I am nothing without my spirit . . . that is why I consist of all three.
I can't go anywhere without my soul . . . I can't go anywhere without my spirit . . . and I especially can't go anywhere without my body :ROFLMAO: --- all three make me a COMPLETE PERSON. IOW, I am not a Triune being :ROFLMAO:.
Can you go anywhere without your body? Can you go anywhere without your soul? Can you go anywhere without your spirit? IOW, Can you go to the store and leave your soul at home?
Why does Matt 10:28 say " And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

And better yet.... Do you know who said this. It was said by Jesus.

Do you think he was in error???????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Neither of these speaks to a Complete person . They are as separate as your teeth are from your Hair, or your ears to your feet.

They make up you but they are parts of you independent from each other.
All this does is try to divert you from answering what I asked you.

As pointed out - I can't go anywhere without my soul . . . can't go anywhere without my spirit, etc. I can only function and live as a complete person, as a human being with a body, soul and spirit.
Now, what you brought up in comparison - hair, ears, teeth, feet yes, those are separate parts of my BODY - I can function if some of those parts are gone. . . . without a soul or spirit a body is just an empty shell.

I think this topic should probably be taken elsewhere. This thread is about the Trinity not death.
If I am the one who took it off topic, I apologize. :)
 
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nope parables never mention people by name.

next fallacy
God doesn't send people to torment because they have nice things in life as the parable of the rich man and Lazarus states. There is no hard rule that a parable cannot have peoples' names in it. You seem to be making up parable criteria on the fly.
 
God doesn't send people to torment because they have nice things in life as the parable of the rich man and Lazarus states. There is no hard rule that a parable cannot have peoples' names in it. You seem to be making up parable criteria on the fly.
The story is not a parable but a factual account. Parables do not have names mentioned in them, parables which are fictional lack names.
 
The story is not a parable but a factual account. Parables do not have names mentioned in them, parables which are fictional lack names.
So, you believe it's not a parable because it has a name in it, is non-fiction, and God sends people to hell if they dare get any blessings in life? Sorry, but that's ridiculous and is runs contrary to the gospel the Bible preaches. Better to call it a parable or at least a spiritual lesson, but not a factual account.
 
So, you believe it's not a parable because it has a name in it, is non-fiction, and God sends people to hell if they dare get any blessings in life? Sorry, but that's ridiculous and is runs contrary to the gospel the Bible preaches. Better to call it a parable or at least a spiritual lesson, but not a factual account.
Nope it’s an actual account. See below why.


Luke 16:19-31 has been the focus of much controversy. Some take the story of the rich man and Lazarus to be a true, historical account of events that actually occurred; others consider it a parable or allegory.

Those who interpret this narrative as a true incident have several reasons for doing so. First, the story is never called a parable. Many other of Jesus’ stories are designated as parables, such as the sower and the seed (Luke 8:4); the prosperous farmer (Luke 12:16); the barren fig tree (Luke 13:6); and the wedding feast (Luke 14:7). Second, the story of the rich man and Lazarus uses the actual name of a person. Such specificity would set it apart from ordinary parables, in which the characters are not named.

Third, this particular story does not seem to fit the definition of a parable, which is a presentation of a spiritual truth using an earthly illustration. The story of the rich man and Lazarus presents spiritual truth directly, with no earthly metaphor. The setting for most of the story is the afterlife, as opposed to the parables, which unfold in earthly contexts.Got?

hope this helps !!!
 
If any part of Jesus was alive until his bodily resurrection - he did not die for your sins. DEATH is the CESSATION OF LIFE.

When Ecc. 12:7 says the spirit shall return unto God who gave it --- what is 'spirit'? under ruach - we have as the main definitions wind, breath, mind, spirit . . . under spirit - animation, listed attitudes, dispositions, emotions, mental activity - God's given gift, etc.
(I broke this down simply so I would encourage looking it up for a fuller, lengthier definition) :)

So what goes back to God - I don't believe it is 'animation' we are dead there is no longer animation; mental activity.
Ecc. 9:5,10 says 'the dead no nothing' --- 'no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom is in the grave'; we can't contradict that verse . . . so again, what goes back to God?

FreeinChrist - I asked you a question first. When you have answered my question I will respond to yours.

So what is 'spirit'? What goes back to God?

I think this topic should probably be taken elsewhere. This thread is about the Trinity not death.
If I am the one who took it off topic, I apologize. :)

If you cannot understand about the tripartite of man, you never could comprehend the Trinity.

NOT that I am saying they the same thing... but until you can grasp that there is very definity 3 in one in both cases.

God said let US (plural) make man in our image, after our likeness

The Bible says that man consists of three component parts: body, soul and spirit. Man is a triune being because he is created in the image of God (Genesis 1:26-27), who Himself is a Trinity.

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The Bible says that man consists of three component parts: body, soul and spirit. Man is a triune being because he is created in the image of God (Genesis 1:26-27), who Himself is a Trinity.

The view that man is made of three parts is called “trichotomy.” But there is an idea also that prevails largely today that man consists of only two component parts: namely, body and soul/spirit (dichotomy). They say that “spirit” is not a separate part of man, but simply another term for “soul”, and that both terms are used interchangeably in Scripture to talk about the immaterial part of man, the part that lives on after our bodies die.

But the 3 parts of man and their reason....


What the Bible says about Spirit in Man and Communication

Job 32:8

The spirit mentioned here is not the Holy Spirit. This “breath of the Almighty” is a separate and distinct spirit that enables people to have qualities in God's image while remaining merely human. It enables communication to take place, even between God and humans. God, however, is not the only being who can communicate with and to us. Of course, other humans can communicate with us, as can angels. Such communication is not only verbal, but it can also be through the influence of other spirits and attitudes, be they evil or righteous.


Spiritual rebirth, often referred to as being "born again," is a fundamental concept in Christian theology that signifies a profound transformation and renewal of an individual's spirit. This transformation is believed to be initiated by the Holy Spirit and marks the beginning of a new life in Christ. The term "born again" is derived from the Greek word "anōthen," which can mean "again" or "from above," indicating both a renewal and a divine origin.
(and IMO is what Jesus was trying to convey to Nicodemus.)

It is though our spirit that we communicate with God.

I would move right into the Soul but for today I am out of time. But this is actually IMMO perfectly in line with the topic

on the Trinity.

There are many links that can be provided if you are interested, but for now I must run.
 
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Nope it’s an actual account. See below why.


Luke 16:19-31 has been the focus of much controversy. Some take the story of the rich man and Lazarus to be a true, historical account of events that actually occurred; others consider it a parable or allegory.

Those who interpret this narrative as a true incident have several reasons for doing so. First, the story is never called a parable. Many other of Jesus’ stories are designated as parables, such as the sower and the seed (Luke 8:4); the prosperous farmer (Luke 12:16); the barren fig tree (Luke 13:6); and the wedding feast (Luke 14:7). Second, the story of the rich man and Lazarus uses the actual name of a person. Such specificity would set it apart from ordinary parables, in which the characters are not named.

Third, this particular story does not seem to fit the definition of a parable, which is a presentation of a spiritual truth using an earthly illustration. The story of the rich man and Lazarus presents spiritual truth directly, with no earthly metaphor. The setting for most of the story is the afterlife, as opposed to the parables, which unfold in earthly contexts.Got?

hope this helps !!!
You still have the issue of God not judging people that way, the matter of Jesus saying they won't believe if someone rose from the dead even though the gospel requires believers to believe Jesus was raised from the dead, and there being no examples of people going to torment. The rest of the Bible says people are either destroyed or are just dead until they are resurrected. So the factual reality of the gospel is contrary to the rich man and Lazarus story. So I'm convinced it's a parable.

So Bible is firmly against a literal interpretation of that story. It having a name in it is not a criteria for it not being a parable anyway.
 
If you cannot understand about the tripartite of man, you never could comprehend the Trinity.

NOT that I am saying they the same thing... but until you can grasp that there is very definity 3 in one in both cases.

God said let US (plural) make man in our image, after our likeness
Why are you having such a hard time answering the questions I put forth to YOU.

You are correct - I do not comprehend the Trinity which is why I am no longer a Trinitarian.
God is not a plurality. 'So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.' God - elohim - used as singular; created - bara - singular verb; his, he - singular personal pronouns If God was a Triune God plural verbs, and plural pronouns would have been used.
The Bible says that man consists of three component parts: body, soul and spirit. Man is a triune being because he is created in the image of God (Genesis 1:26-27), who Himself is a Trinity.
BUT I do understand that man is comprised of a body, soul, and spirit.
I'm not denying that a human being consists of body, soul and spirit. - these are NOT PARTS . . Can you go anywhere without your body? Can you go anywhere without your soul? Can you go anywhere without your spirit? IOW, Can you go to the store and leave your soul at home?
The view that man is made of three parts is called “trichotomy.” But there is an idea also that prevails largely today that man consists of only two component parts: namely, body and soul/spirit (dichotomy). They say that “spirit” is not a separate part of man, but simply another term for “soul”, and that both terms are used interchangeably in Scripture to talk about the immaterial part of man, the part that lives on after our bodies die.

But the 3 parts of man and their reason....


What the Bible says about Spirit in Man and Communication


Job 32:8

The spirit mentioned here is not the Holy Spirit. This “breath of the Almighty” is a separate and distinct spirit that enables people to have qualities in God's image while remaining merely human. It enables communication to take place, even between God and humans. God, however, is not the only being who can communicate with and to us. Of course, other humans can communicate with us, as can angels. Such communication is not only verbal, but it can also be through the influence of other spirits and attitudes, be they evil or righteous.

then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature. [Gen. 2:7] God formed man from the dust of the ground = the body; God breathed [nāp̄aḥ naw-fakh' to breathe, blow] into his nostrils the breath [nᵊšāmâ - breath, spirit; 1) breath (of God); breath (of man); every breathing thing 4) spirit (of man)] of life = man became a living creature (nephash). Man became a living creature consisting of body, your soul/spirit.

For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. [1 Cor. 2:11] spirit of man

Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. [1 Thessalonians 5:23] May your whole being - body, soul, and spirit be kept blameless . . .
Spiritual rebirth, often referred to as being "born again," is a fundamental concept in Christian theology that signifies a profound transformation and renewal of an individual's spirit. This transformation is believed to be initiated by the Holy Spirit and marks the beginning of a new life in Christ. The term "born again" is derived from the Greek word "anōthen," which can mean "again" or "from above," indicating both a renewal and a divine origin.
(and IMO is what Jesus was trying to convey to Nicodemus.)

It is though our spirit that we communicate with God.

I would move right into the Soul but for today I am out of time. But this is actually IMMO perfectly in line with the topic

on the Trinity.

There are many links that can be provided if you are interested, but for now I must run.
Yes . . . Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again; he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Spiritual rebirth; being born again is being born of God's Spirit. When we are born from the womb we consist of body, soul, and spirit (spirit of man) which is why we have to be born again of God's Spirit. I agree that it is by way of the spirit we receive when we are born again that we communicate with God. If we initially had the Spirit of God why would we have to be born again?

If you want to continue this line of thought - we really need to move or open another thread.
 
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