The Trinity and all of its supporting doctrines are all circular in reasoning

[Amos]

Believing in God and believing in Jesus aren't the same thing.

John 14
1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well.

Right, believe in both members of the trinity. And lets not forget the third member of the trinity, the Holy Spirit.

I have encouragement for you. If you are a genuine born–again Christian, you have a relationship with the Holy Spirit, whether you have acknowledged Him as part of the trinity or not.

 

[amazing grace]

Right, believe in both members of the trinity. And lets not forget the third member of the trinity, the Holy Spirit.

I have encouragement for you. If you are a genuine born–again Christian, you have a relationship with the Holy Spirit, whether you have acknowledged Him as part of the trinity or not.

It seems that Paul forgot the third member of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit in his greetings at the beginning of his epistles.

 

[Amos]

It seems that Paul forgot the third member of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit in his greetings at the beginning of his epistles.

And your point is...?

The term “Trinity” is the right theological descriptor for the Christian God over against secularism’s atheolgical denials and the alternatives proffered by the other religions of the world.

The doctrine of the Trinity is the foundation of the Christian religion. Unless this doctrine is held to firmly and truly, it is not possible to be a Christian.

 

[Runningman]

I'm not sure what to do with your ideas after you have declared Paul and John as following pagan ideas along with Trinitarians. You lose credibility after doing that. Nor do you explain the passages that show Jesus is God. You really cannot solve the issues that appear in scripture and you take the denial route instead.

I will take your avoidance of answering my question as a nod to knowing Paul only mentioned the 1 God as being the Father.

Next step. Did Paul or anyone else ever say God is 3?

 

[Runningman]

QUITE USING THE WORD BIBLE. IT IS NOT IN THE BOOK YOU CLAIM TO READ.

You sure about that? The word is there, just not in English. Your turn. Please show me where the trinity is in the Bible.

Revelation 20
12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne. And books [βιβλία biblia] were opened, and one of them was the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books. [βιβλίοις bibliois]

 

[Runningman]

Right, believe in both members of the trinity. And lets not forget the third member of the trinity, the Holy Spirit.

I have encouragement for you. If you are a genuine born–again Christian, you have a relationship with the Holy Spirit, whether you have acknowledged Him as part of the trinity or not.

According to trinitarianism, "God" is the trinity. So Was Jesus essentially saying, "You believe in the trinity; believe in me as well?" That would place Jesus outside of the trinity.

Now go back to his original statement: "You believe in God; believe in Me as well." As you can see, this sort of language places Jesus as distinctly separate from God. So it's possible to believe in God without believing in Jesus.

 

[Runningman]

It seems that Paul forgot the third member of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit in his greetings at the beginning of his epistles.

With something as important as who God is, you would think that identifying God "correctly" as all three members of the alleged trinity would be a top priority if that's what they believed in.

I mean, how likely is it that God, Jesus, the prophets, and all of the apostles never once identified God as a trinity if they actually thought God is a trinity? If they didn't mention the trinity, then all evidence is that they didn't believe in the trinity. People should not accuse them as such either, but, as you can see, they do.

 

[Amos]

According to trinitarianism, "God" is the trinity. So Was Jesus essentially saying, "You believe in the trinity; believe in me as well?" That would place Jesus outside of the trinity.

Now go back to his original statement: "You believe in God; believe in Me as well." As you can see, this sort of language places Jesus as distinctly separate from God. So it's possible to believe in God without believing in Jesus.

Whatever works for you, go for it. But I'm all in for the Trinity.

I see at least one New Testament reference that indicates the Spirit of God in the Old Testament is to be identified with the Holy Spirit. In Peter’s speech at Pentecost he explains the coming of the Holy Spirit in the dramatic fashion evidenced by speaking in tongues.

He indicates that this is the fulfillment of what Joel had prophesied: “I will pour out my Spirit” Acts 2:17 So we are dealing with the same person, and are justified in using the Old Testament references to God’s Spirit in formulating our understanding of the third person of the Trinity.

Since that is true then it must also be true that God is three-in-one, or triune

 

[Runningman]

Whatever works for you, go for it. But I'm all in for the Trinity.

I see at least one New Testament reference that indicates the Spirit of God in the Old Testament is to be identified with the Holy Spirit. In Peter’s speech at Pentecost he explains the coming of the Holy Spirit in the dramatic fashion evidenced by speaking in tongues.

He indicates that this is the fulfillment of what Joel had prophesied: “I will pour out my Spirit” Acts 2:17 So we are dealing with the same person, and are justified in using the Old Testament references to God’s Spirit in formulating our understanding of the third person of the Trinity.

Since that is true then it must also be true that God is three-in-one, or triune

But Jesus didn't inherently nor automatically have the Holy Spirit. How could a trinity not have inherently unity?

Acts 2
33Exalted, then, to the right hand of God, He has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

Acts 10
38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.

 

[amazing grace]

And your point is...?

The term “Trinity” is the right theological descriptor for the Christian God over against secularism’s atheolgical denials and the alternatives proffered by the other religions of the world.

The doctrine of the Trinity is the foundation of the Christian religion. Unless this doctrine is held to firmly and truly, it is not possible to be a Christian.

Right, believe in both members of the trinity. And lets not forget the third member of the trinity, the Holy Spirit.

I have encouragement for you. If you are a genuine born–again Christian, you have a relationship with the Holy Spirit, whether you have acknowledged Him as part of the trinity or not.

You said we shouldn't forget the third member of the trinity, the Holy Spirit so I responded.

The term Trinity is the "right" theological descriptor according to Creeds developed some 292 - 400 years after Christ.

I don't think Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc. believed their God was Triune nor the disciples, nor even Jesus!

I believe if it was necessary to believe in a Triune God in order to receive salvation - God would have set it forth as such in a clear succinct manner because God desires all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
Salvation through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is definitely set forth in a straight forward manner.

 

[mikesw]

I will take your avoidance of answering my question as a nod to knowing Paul only mentioned the 1 God as being the Father.

Next step. Did Paul or anyone else ever say God is 3?

self-congratulations on your own ignorance is something you deployed several times. You do not deal with the real issues and try to force the discussion to a language that is not too hard for unitarians. Sad to say that God has not tailored scriptures to such a low comprehension level. There are some passages that show the three together though, such as Matt 28:19-20. I assume you have seen that one before.

 

[Amos]

You said we shouldn't forget the third member of the trinity, the Holy Spirit so I responded.

The term Trinity is the "right" theological descriptor according to Creeds developed some 292 - 400 years after Christ.

I don't think Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc. believed their God was Triune nor the disciples, nor even Jesus!

I believe if it was necessary to believe in a Triune God in order to receive salvation - God would have set it forth as such in a clear succinct manner because God desires all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
Salvation through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is definitely set forth in a straight forward manner.

Thank you for clearing that up for me.

 

[Amos]

I hold to the authority of the Bible, and I'm driven to affirm something like the doctrine of the Trinity, namely, that God is one and that there are three who in Scripture are identified as being God or being of a divine nature: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. So I believe that God is three in one.