Christendom's Trinity: Where Did It Come From?

Now, when are you going to explain to all of those reading this thread how Jesus' "priority in time" or "supremacy in rank" changes the fact that the scripture at Colossians 1:15 assigns the word "born" and the word "creation" to him?

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. (Colossians 1:15 -- World English Bible)

When are you going to explain the rest of the paragraph that REFUTES your misinterpretation of the words that I have explained twice?

Colossians 1:15-17 [WEB]
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are upon earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

How can Jesus be BORN and CREATED and still …
  • “by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are upon earth, visible and invisible
    • Did Jesus create himself? You claim that Jesus was created and that Jesus created ALL THINGS, so that must mean Jesus created himself? Right?
  • all things were created by him, and for him
    • Were angels created FOR Jesus? The Holy Spirit created FOR Jesus? Who owns creation, GOD or Jesus? It says Jesus does …
  • “he is beforeall things”
    • Just like I told you … before any created thing was created, Jesus existed.

atpollard:

A created being cannot create. Got that? You are quoting from a Bible that was translated by Trinitarians. Those persons deliberately manipulated scripture in their attempt at promoting Christendom's 3-prong god.

NOTHING was created by Jesus. The correct translation is as follows, and I will quote first from the New World Translation published by Jehovah's Witnesses, folloed by three Trinitarian Bibles where the Trinitarian translators managed to get it right. Focus on the words bolded in red.


"because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him." (Colossians 1:16 -- New World Translation)


TRINITARIAN BIBLES ARE DIRECTLY BELOW:

"And through him were created all things that are in heaven, and on earth, visible and invisible; whether imperial thrones, or lordships, or angelic orders, or dominions, all things were in his hand and were created by him:" (Colossians 1:16 -- Lamsa Bible)



"for through him God created everything in the heavenly realms and on earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can’t see— such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world. Everything was created through him and for him." (Colossians 1:16 -- New Living Translation)


"For through him God created everything in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen things, including spiritual powers, lords, rulers, and authorities. God created the whole universe through him and for him." (Colossians 1:16 -- Good News Translation)


atpollard, now, turn your focus on the words enlarged and bolded in blue. See that? Jehovah God was the power behind the creating. It was Jehovah working through Jesus. You should have figured out that your translation was wrong by the simple fact that the CONTEXT at Colossians 1:15 says Jesus is among "all creation" and the fact that created beings CANNOT create. But, oh no! like all Trinitarians, you lapped it all up and CHOSE to ignore context.

What the Trinitarian Bible translators did was manipulate scripture in order to deceive the gullible. And it obviously worked on you and people like yourself who REFUSE to pay attention to context.
 
Oh, yes, I have, FreeInChrist. I gave you Colossians 1:15 which clearly says Jesus is firstborn among all creation = Jesus was created. In your failed attempt at talking your way around scripture--which turns out to be a massive failure--you inadvertently admitted that Jesus was born aka created. Notice below at what you said at Post 314.




See that? You admitted that Jesus was "born over because he came first." And you are 100% correct. Jesus was the first creature to be born aka created.


Congratulations!



“Firstborn” does NOT mean “first created.” You’re smuggling that in.

You quoted Colossians 1:15 but ignored what Paul immediately explains:

Paul tells you exactly what “firstborn” means ~ not created, but supreme heir and ruler.
Why? Because He created everything that exists.

FreeInChrist:

Now you're up in here lying on the apostle Paul. Suppose you quote the exact verse of scripture where the apostle Paul said ANYTHING that resembles "firstborn” means ~ not created, but supreme heir and ruler."


Ready, set, go!
 
FreeInChrist:

Now you're up in here lying on the apostle Paul. Suppose you quote the exact verse of scripture where the apostle Paul said ANYTHING that resembles "firstborn” means ~ not created, but supreme heir and ruler."


Ready, set, go!
Col 1:16-17 show that Jesus in his pre-incarnate existence created all things in heaven and earth. It is too bad that unitarians miss the context or pretend the context does not exist.
 
@Alter2Ego
''That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18
Psalm 83:18 (in the verse numbering used in most English Bibles) is the closing line of a prayer by Asaph asking God to defeat and humiliate a coalition of nations conspiring against Israel. The purpose of this defeat is ultimately so that people (especially Israel's enemies) will recognize God's supreme authority.

The verse you quoted —"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth."

This comes from a translation tradition (especially the King James Version and similar older ones, as well as the New World Translation used by Jehovah's Witnesses) that renders God's personal name (the Hebrew Tetragrammaton יהוה, usually transliterated as YHWH) as "Jehovah".

Here is the Core meaning of the verse​

The psalmist prays that through God's dramatic intervention and judgment on the wicked nations, everyone will come to know and acknowledge two key truths:

1.God has a personal name — represented here as JEHOVAH/YHWH/Yahweh — which sets Him apart.

2.He alone is the Most High (supreme sovereign, El Elyon in Hebrew) over the entire earth — no other "gods" or powers compare.

In context, it's both a declaration of exclusive monotheism (only one true God rules everything) and a hope that even enemies might eventually recognize this truth after experiencing God's power (see also verse 16, which speaks of them seeking God's name).

Do you want to know Why different translations vary

The original Hebrew uses יהוה (YHWH), the personal name of God revealed to Moses (Exodus 3:14–15, connected to "I AM"). Ancient Jewish tradition stopped pronouncing it aloud out of reverence, substituting "Adonai" (Lord) instead. This affected later translations:

The King James Version (1611): "JEHOVAH" (one of the few places it uses this form instead of "LORD").

The New World Translation (Jehovah's Witnesses): "Jehovah" — they emphasize restoring the divine name wherever it appears in the Hebrew text.

And Most modern translations (NIV, ESV, NLT, etc.): "the LORD" (in all caps to indicate it's translating YHWH) → "Let them know that you, whose name is the LORD, are the Most High over all the earth."

Scholars generally agree the ancient pronunciation was closer to "Yahweh" than "Jehovah" (which is a later hybrid form from combining YHWH's consonants with Adonai's vowels), but the exact pronunciation remains uncertain.

Meaning​

This verse is a powerful declaration that:

God has a unique personal name (whether rendered Jehovah, Yahweh, or LORD).

He alone is sovereign ruler over the whole earth — above all false gods, nations, or powers.

The psalm ends with the hope that God's actions will make this reality undeniable to all people. It's often highlighted in discussions about God's name because it's one of the clearest places where the Bible explicitly calls attention to it in connection with His supreme authority.
 
A created being cannot create. Got that?
I agree ...

  • John 1:3 [NASB] All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being.
  • Colossians 1:16 [NASB] for by Him all things were created, [both] in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or rulers, or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.

... and since GOD-BREATHED Scripture states that God the Son (the Word, who was incarnate at Jesus) created all things: I agree that "God the Son" was not created.
 
FreeInChrist:Now you're up in here lying on the apostle Paul. Suppose you quote the exact verse of scripture where the apostle Paul said ANYTHING that resembles "firstborn” means ~ not created, but supreme heir and ruler."

What “firstborn” actually means​

In the Bible, firstborn is a title of rank, inheritance, and authority — not a statement about being created first.

It means: the one who holds the rights of the heir and ruler

Biblical proof​

Firstborn is not first created​

Israel is called God’s firstborn .............“Israel is my firstborn son.” ....Exodus 4:22

But Israel was not the first nation God made.

“Firstborn” means chosen heir.

David was called firstborn​

“I will make him the firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth.” ...Psalm 89:27

David was the youngest son in his family — yet God made him “firstborn” because it meant supreme king.

Jesus as Firstborn​

“He is the firstborn over all creation.” — Colossians 1:15

Paul explains what that means just two verses later:

“For by him all things were created…” (v.16)

So Jesus cannot be part of creation He is the heir and ruler over it.

What “firstborn” means when applied to Christ​

It means:

Heir of all things, Supreme over creation, Owner of creation, Ruler of heaven and earth

Not:

first thing God made, a created being, an angel

“Firstborn in the Bible means heir and ruler, not first created. David was called firstborn though he was the youngest, and Israel was called firstborn though it wasn’t the first nation. So when Jesus is called firstborn of all creation, it means He owns and rules creation not that He is part of it.”


Paul defines “firstborn” in the very passage he uses it.


“He is the firstborn of all creation, because by him all things were created… all things were created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.”
Colossians 1:15–17

Paul does not leave “firstborn” undefined.
He explains it with because (hoti):

Firstborn = the one through whom all things were made, who exists before all things, and who owns all things.

If Jesus created all things, then He cannot be part of “all things.”
So “firstborn of creation” cannot mean “first created.”

“Paul doesn’t define ‘firstborn’ by a dictionary — he defines it by saying Christ created all things, exists before all things, and has first place over all things (Col 1:15-18). A being who made everything cannot be part of what was made.”




Ready, set, go!


 
I agree ...

  • John 1:3 [NASB] All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being.
  • Colossians 1:16 [NASB] for by Him all things were created, [both] in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or rulers, or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.

... and since GOD-BREATHED Scripture states that God the Son (the Word, who was incarnate at Jesus) created all things: I agree that "God the Son" was not created.

I don't care what you believe, atpollard. Scripture at Colossians 1:15 says the Jesus created. Throughout the Christian Greek Scriptures, we are told that Jesus was begotten. Below is just one example.


"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
(John 1:18 -- King James Bible)


Not only does John 1:18 say no man has seen God at anytime--indicating Jesus could not possibly be in a Trinity with God since everybody within Jesus' view could see him--but John 1:18 says Jesus was begotten.



"begotten

2 of 2

adjective

: brought into existence by or as if by a parent"





And that's the least of your problems. According to you and other Trinitarians, Almighty God Jehovah is a liar when he himself declares that he alone is Creator.
 
"for through him God created everything in the heavenly realms and on earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can’t see— such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world. Everything was created through him and for him." (Colossians 1:16 -- New Living Translation)
Colossians 1 NLT

"For through him God created everything in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen things, including spiritual powers, lords, rulers, and authorities. God created the whole universe through him and for him." (Colossians 1:16 -- Good News Translation)
Colossians 1 GNT

atpollard, now, turn your focus on the words enlarged and bolded in blue. See that? Jehovah God was the power behind the creating.
Except "GOD" never appears in the verse. The word used is "αὐτός" which just means (the same person we were discussing already; self).

αὐτός, -ή, -ό, pronoun ("derived from the particle αὖ with the added force of a demonstrative pronoun. In itself it signifies nothing more than again, applied to what has either been previously mentioned or, when the whole discourse is looked at, must necessarily be supplied." Klotz ad Devar. ii., p. 219; [see Vanicek, p. 268]). It is used by the biblical writings both of the O. T. and of the N. T. far more frequently than the other pronouns; and in this very frequent and almost inordinate use of it, they deviate greatly from secular authors; cf. Buttmann, § 127, 9. [On classic usage cf. Hermann, Opuscc. i. 308ff, of which dissertation a summary is given in his edition of Viger, pp. 732-736.]
I. self, as used (in all persons, genders, numbers) to distinguish a person or thing from or contrast it with another, or to give him (it) emphatic prominence.
1. When used to express Opposition or Distinction, it is added


Do not take my word for it, here is the verse and you know the names of God, so look for yourself:

  • 1:16 ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ ἐκτίσθη τὰ πάν τα ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς καὶ ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς τὰ ὁρατὰ καὶ τὰ ἀόρατα εἴτε θρόνοι εἴτε κυριότητες εἴτε ἀρχαὶ εἴτε ἐξουσίαι τὰ πάντα δι᾽ αὐτοῦ καὶ εἰς αὐτὸν ἔκτισται
  • 1:16 (for) (by) (self) (created) (the) (all) (the) (in) (the) (heaven) (and) (in) (the) (earth) (the) (visible) (and) (the) (invisible) (whether) (thrones) (or) (dominions) (or) (principalities) (or) (powers) (the) (all) (by) (self) (and) (for) (self) (created)
 
FreeInChrist:

Now you're up in here lying on the apostle Paul. Suppose you quote the exact verse of scripture where the apostle Paul said ANYTHING that resembles "firstborn” means ~ not created, but supreme heir and ruler."


Ready, set, go!


FreeInChrist:Now you're up in here lying on the apostle Paul. Suppose you quote the exact verse of scripture where the apostle Paul said ANYTHING that resembles "firstborn” means ~ not created, but supreme heir and ruler."

What “firstborn” actually means​

In the Bible, firstborn is a title of rank, inheritance, and authority — not a statement about being created first.

It means: the one who holds the rights of the heir and ruler

You forgot to mention that in the Bible, the word "born" applies to created beings. When are you going to do that, FreeInChrist?
 
"for through him God created everything in the heavenly realms and on earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can’t see— such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world. Everything was created through him and for him." (Colossians 1:16 -- New Living Translation)


"For through him God created everything in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen things, including spiritual powers, lords, rulers, and authorities. God created the whole universe through him and for him." (Colossians 1:16 -- Good News Translation)


atpollard, now, turn your focus on the words enlarged and bolded in blue. See that? Jehovah God was the power behind the creating. It was Jehovah working through Jesus. You should have figured out that your translation was wrong by the simple fact that the CONTEXT at Colossians 1:15 says Jesus is among "all creation" and the fact that created beings CANNOT create. But, oh no! like all Trinitarians, you lapped it all up and CHOSE to ignore context.

What the Trinitarian Bible translators did was manipulate scripture in order to deceive the gullible. And it obviously worked on you and people like yourself who REFUSE to pay attention to context.


Except "GOD" never appears in the verse. The word used is "αὐτός" which just means (the same person we were discussing already; self).

αὐτός, -ή, -ό, pronoun ("derived from the particle αὖ with the added force of a demonstrative pronoun. In itself it signifies nothing more than again, applied to what has either been previously mentioned or, when the whole discourse is looked at, must necessarily be supplied." Klotz ad Devar. ii., p. 219; [see Vanicek, p. 268]). It is used by the biblical writings both of the O. T. and of the N. T. far more frequently than the other pronouns; and in this very frequent and almost inordinate use of it, they deviate greatly from secular authors; cf. Buttmann, § 127, 9. [On classic usage cf. Hermann, Opuscc. i. 308ff, of which dissertation a summary is given in his edition of Viger, pp. 732-736.]
I. self, as used (in all persons, genders, numbers) to distinguish a person or thing from or contrast it with another, or to give him (it) emphatic prominence.
1. When used to express Opposition or Distinction, it is added


Do not take my word for it, here is the verse and you know the names of God, so look for yourself:

  • 1:16 ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ ἐκτίσθη τὰ πάν τα ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς καὶ ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς τὰ ὁρατὰ καὶ τὰ ἀόρατα εἴτε θρόνοι εἴτε κυριότητες εἴτε ἀρχαὶ εἴτε ἐξουσίαι τὰ πάντα δι᾽ αὐτοῦ καὶ εἰς αὐτὸν ἔκτισται
  • 1:16 (for) (by) (self) (created) (the) (all) (the) (in) (the) (heaven) (and) (in) (the) (earth) (the) (visible) (and) (the) (invisible) (whether) (thrones) (or) (dominions) (or) (principalities) (or) (powers) (the) (all) (by) (self) (and) (for) (self) (created)

atpollard:

The title "God" isn't necessary at Colossians 1:16 in light of the fact Colossians 1:15 makes it clear that Jesus was created. Verse 15 says, regarding Jesus Christ, that he was the "firstBORN of all CREATION." You have already acknowledged that created beings cannot create. So by the time you reached verse 16, common sense should have told you that Jesus didn't create anything and that the Bible translation you're reading from is incorrect. It's called reading-comprehension, which is sorely lacking in Trinitarians because of their refusal to take into account context (surrounding words, verses, or chapters). That's how Trinitarian Bible translators have been able to fool the gullible.


BTW: Elsewhere in the Bible--which you, like all Trinitarians run from--Jehovah God/Yahweh himself declares:

"Thus says Yahweh, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, “I, Yahweh, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone," (Isaiah 44:24 -- Legacy Standard Bible)



"Thus saith Jehovah, thy Redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb: I am Jehovah, that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth ( who is with me? );" (Isaiah 44:24 -- American Standard Version)



You, atpollard, like all Trinitarians, are calling Almighty God Jehovah a liar by you refusing to give him credit as sole Creator. You will have to answer to Almighty God for showing up on websites like these, lying for Trinity and refusing to be corrected by scripture.
 
atpollard:

The title "God" isn't necessary at Colossians 1:16 in light of the fact Colossians 1:15 makes it clear that Jesus was created. Verse 15 says, regarding Jesus Christ, that he was the "firstBORN of all CREATION." You have already acknowledged that created beings cannot create. So by the time you reached verse 16, common sense should have told you that Jesus didn't create anything and that the Bible translation you're reading from is incorrect. It's called reading-comprehension, which is sorely lacking in Trinitarians because of their refusal to take into account context (surrounding words, verses, or chapters). That's how Trinitarian Bible translators have been able to fool the gullible.


BTW: Elsewhere in the Bible--which you, like all Trinitarians run from--Jehovah God/Yahweh himself declares:

"Thus says Yahweh, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, “I, Yahweh, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone," (Isaiah 44:24 -- Legacy Standard Bible)
Uh. the only problem would be if Jesus were not pre-existing as Yahweh within the Triune sense. However, Jesus is shown to pre-exist as God and thus that has to be reconciled here, not discarded. This is another case of unitarian hyperliteralism rejecting most of scripture just to deny the identity of Jesus.
"Thus saith Jehovah, thy Redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb: I am Jehovah, that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth ( who is with me? );" (Isaiah 44:24 -- American Standard Version)
Wow. Same verse quoted but using the briefly followed translation of the Hebrew YHWH as Jehovah.
You, atpollard, like all Trinitarians, are calling Almighty God Jehovah a liar by you refusing to give him credit as sole Creator. You will have to answer to Almighty God for showing up on websites like these, lying for Trinity and refusing to be corrected by scripture.

I do not know any creator represented in scripture except what is now recognized as the Triune God. This is another failed argument by the hyperliteralist unitarians who want to deny who Jesus is, especially as found in John 1
 
atpollard:

The title "God" isn't necessary at Colossians 1:16 in light of the fact Colossians 1:15 makes it clear that Jesus was created. Verse 15 says, regarding Jesus Christ, that he was the "firstBORN of all CREATION." You have already acknowledged that created beings cannot create. So by the time you reached verse 16, common sense should have told you that Jesus didn't create anything and that the Bible translation you're reading from is incorrect. It's called reading-comprehension, which is sorely lacking in Trinitarians because of their refusal to take into account context (surrounding words, verses, or chapters). That's how Trinitarian Bible translators have been able to fool the gullible.


BTW: Elsewhere in the Bible--which you, like all Trinitarians run from--Jehovah God/Yahweh himself declares:

"Thus says Yahweh, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, “I, Yahweh, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone," (Isaiah 44:24 -- Legacy Standard Bible)



"Thus saith Jehovah, thy Redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb: I am Jehovah, that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth ( who is with me? );" (Isaiah 44:24 -- American Standard Version)



You, atpollard, like all Trinitarians, are calling Almighty God Jehovah a liar by you refusing to give him credit as sole Creator. You will have to answer to Almighty God for showing up on websites like these, lying for Trinity and refusing to be corrected by scripture.
Have you considered Judaism? You could worship YHWH, completely reject Jesus and remain internally consistent. :ROFLMAO:
 
I don't care what you believe, atpollard. Scripture at Colossians 1:15 says the Jesus created. Throughout the Christian Greek Scriptures, we are told that Jesus was begotten. Below is just one example.


"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
(John 1:18 -- King James Bible)


Not only does John 1:18 say no man has seen God at anytime--indicating Jesus could not possibly be in a Trinity with God since everybody within Jesus' view could see him--but John 1:18 says Jesus was begotten.



"begotten

2 of 2

adjective

: brought into existence by or as if by a parent"





And that's the least of your problems. According to you and other Trinitarians, Almighty God Jehovah is a liar when he himself declares that he alone is Creator.
Yes Jesus created everything now you are beginning to understand what the bible says about the Son who made all things and is before all things and in Him all things exist- He holds those same all things together by the power of His word.
 
Although Trinity is the most important doctrine within most of Christendom's 41,000 denominations, Trinitarians ignore the following facts:

1. There are no scriptures in the Judeo-Christian Bible in support of the dogma of a 3-in-1 god, in which there are three persons (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost) that are co-equal and co-eternal.
You start off with an incorrect premise. There are MANY Scriptures that state explicitly that Jesus is God.
Question: In Genesis 1, who created everything that was Created?
Answer: God.
Question: In John 1:1-3, who created everything that was Created?
Answer: The Word (Logos), which was God, and was WITH God (meaning there were more than one being that is God).
Question: What happened to the Word that was God and was with God?
Answer: According to John 1:14, the Word became flesh and we know it as the man Jesus.
Question: What does that mean about the man Jesus?
Answer: The man Jesus is God, since He is the embodiment of the Word of God.
2. Neither Jesus Christ nor his disciples of the 1st century AD promoted the teaching that there are three persons within a godhead, all of whom are co-equal and co-eternal.
Again, this is incorrect. Jesus claimed to be God on several occasions, (John 8:58, John 10:30, John 5:18). And His Apostles claimed He was God (John 20:28, 2 Pet 1:1, Tit 2:13, Heb 1:8).
3. Trinity did not become official Christian teaching until the 4th century AD, some 300 years after Jesus Christ left the earthly scene and returned to heavenly life, and some 300 years after the last book of the Bible was written.
The last book written by one of the Apostles that we have in common acceptance as Scripture today was written almost 60 years after Jesus' death. So either subtract 60 from the first 300, or add 60 to your second 300. (nitpicking, yes, but I am seeking accuracy because you are trying to make it seem that Scripture is not accurate in what it says).

To your point though, a doctrinal statement doesn't have to be made until and unless someone is attacking the foundation of an understanding that already exists. There was no need to defend the doctrine of Jesus being God until the attack on Jesus' deity became widespread. The Apostles knew He was God, taught that He was God to the first several generations of Christ followers, and it was not until 300 years later that an all out attack on His deity became prevalent.
It would surprise some that there were trinity gods throughout the pagan world--for centuries before the idea of a 3-in-1 god was adopted by Christendom. Below are four such examples:

A. In the 2nd century BCE (two centuries before Jesus Christ came to the earth), Egypt had a triad of gods consisting of (1) Horus, (2) Osiris, and (3) Isis.


B. In the 2nd century B.C.E., Babylon had a triad of gods consisting of (1) Ishtar, (2) Sin, and (3) Shamash.


C. In the 1st century C.E., Palmyra, which was an ancient city in Syria, had a triune god which consisted of (1) moon god, (2) Lord of Heavens, and (3) sun god.


D. Even the Hindus in India have their own trinity of gods, as follows: (1) Brahma, (2) Vishnu, and (3) Shiva.
Let's look at these religions. Not a single one of them portrays their deity as reaching out to His creation in order to reestablish the relationship broken because of sin. ONLY the true God of the universe did that. Further, all of those are worshiped as three separate deities. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not three deities, but are ONE God.
QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION:

1.
If the teaching of a Trinity god is essential to Christianity, how is it that the doctrine is nowhere to be found in scriptures within Jehovah's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible?
The doctrine of the trinity of God is all over in Scripture. All the way back in the beginning of the Bible, Gen 1 depicts God talking to Himself as "Our", "Us", etc.
2. If Jesus Christ is part of a trinity in which he has the same power (co-equal) and the same eternity (co-eternal) as Jehovah the Father, how is it that the scriptures repeatedly inform us that Jesus Christ is subservient to Almighty God Jehovah (indicating inequality) and why is it that scripture tells us over and over again that Jesus Christ is "begotten" (indicating he had a beginning)?
Jesus as a man was subservient to the Father, because He emptied Himself of His glory, independent use of His power, position, etc. (Phil 2:7) when He came down from Heaven to become a man. As a man, He was subject to every weakness we as humans are subject to: sickness, hunger, fear, disappointment, longing, surprise, death, thirst, etc. But the Spirit within Him was not a human spirit (the spirit like you and I have), but was the Spirit of Almighty God. And that Spirit did not have a beginning, but was from eternity, and was responsible for creating all that has been created.

That Spirit could not have created itself, so it cannot be a created being.
 
atpollard:

The title "God" isn't necessary at Colossians 1:16 in light of the fact Colossians 1:15 makes it clear that Jesus was created. Verse 15 says, regarding Jesus Christ, that he was the "firstBORN of all CREATION." You have already acknowledged that created beings cannot create. So by the time you reached verse 16, common sense should have told you that Jesus didn't create anything and that the Bible translation you're reading from is incorrect. It's called reading-comprehension, which is sorely lacking in Trinitarians because of their refusal to take into account context (surrounding words, verses, or chapters). That's how Trinitarian Bible translators have been able to fool the gullible.


BTW: Elsewhere in the Bible--which you, like all Trinitarians run from--Jehovah God/Yahweh himself declares:

"Thus says Yahweh, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, “I, Yahweh, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone," (Isaiah 44:24 -- Legacy Standard Bible)



"Thus saith Jehovah, thy Redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb: I am Jehovah, that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth ( who is with me? );" (Isaiah 44:24 -- American Standard Version)



You, atpollard, like all Trinitarians, are calling Almighty God Jehovah a liar by you refusing to give him credit as sole Creator. You will have to answer to Almighty God for showing up on websites like these, lying for Trinity and refusing to be corrected by scripture.

Have you considered Judaism? You could worship YHWH, completely reject Jesus and remain internally consistent. :ROFLMAO:

Spoken like the true PAGAN that you are, atpollard. Keep playing the fool--which you are very good at--and remain internally consistent doing that.


Another thing: You are now on my Ignore List--permanently. When you arrive there, you will be greeted by fellow pagans mikesw and Capbook and praise_yeshua and TomL. All four of the aforementioned already won their one-way ticket over to my permanent Ignore list where I will never again have to read the Trinitarian tripe they insist on posting.

As my exemplar, Jesus Christ, instructed:

Matthew 10:14

"Wherever anyone does not receive you or listen to your words, on going out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet."


My work with you is done.
 
I don't care what you believe, atpollard. Scripture at Colossians 1:15 says the Jesus created. Throughout the Christian Greek Scriptures, we are told that Jesus was begotten. Below is just one example.


"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
(John 1:18 -- King James Bible)


Not only does John 1:18 say no man has seen God at anytime--indicating Jesus could not possibly be in a Trinity with God since everybody within Jesus' view could see him--but John 1:18 says Jesus was begotten.



"begotten

2 of 2

adjective

: brought into existence by or as if by a parent"





And that's the least of your problems. According to you and other Trinitarians, Almighty God Jehovah is a liar when he himself declares that he alone is Creator.

Yes Jesus created everything now you are beginning to understand what the bible says about the Son who made all things and is before all things and in Him all things exist- He holds those same all things together by the power of His word.

civic:

I have already been over that with atpollard (whom I just banished to my Ignore permanently). I suggest you read what I said at Post 321. Below is the weblink.



 
where I will never again have to read the Trinitarian tripe they insist on posting.
That “tripe” is called “Scripture” and you have not been actually READING what it says up to this point, so your threat to keep doing the same thing rings a bit hollow.
 
Yes Jesus created everything now you are beginning to understand what the bible says about the Son who made all things and is before all things and in Him all things exist- He holds those same all things together by the power of His word.
Sorry, but “ignorance” is her superpower … her ability to NOT UNDERSTAND far exceeds any human ability to explain. ;)
 
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