The Trinity and all of its supporting doctrines are all circular in reasoning

[Alter2Ego]

FreeInChrist:

Your reasons for using the fabricated word Godhead to support your trinitarian philosophy doesn't change the fact that that particular word didn't show up in the Bible until after John Wycliffe published his English translation in the 14th Century C.E. and introduced the fabricated word godhede. Below are two independent sources confirming this.

John Wycliffe (born c. 1330, Yorkshire, England—died December 31, 1384, Lutterworth, Leicestershire) was an English theologian, philosopher, church reformer, and promoter of the first complete translation of the Bible into English.”

John Wycliffe | Biography, Bible, Beliefs, Reformation, Legacy, Death, & Facts | Britannica

John Wycliffe, English theologian, philosopher, church reformer, and promoter of the first complete translation of the Bible into English. He was one of the forerunners of the Protestant Reformation. The Lollards, a heretical group, propagated his controversial views.

www.britannica.com

“The ending "-head", is not connected with the word "head". John Wycliffe introduced the term godhed into English Bible versions in two places, and, though somewhat archaic, the term survives in modern English because of its use in three places of the Tyndale New Testament (1525) and into the Authorized King James Version of the Bible (1611). In that translation, the word was used to translate three different Greek words:”

Godhead meaning

So 1,300 years after the last book of the Judeo-Christian Bible was written by inspiration of the Abrahamic God, John Wycliffe invented the word godhede and inserted it into his English Translation. The translators of the King James Version that was published in 1611--all of them Trinitarians--turned around and changed godhede to Godhead.

Suffice it to say, most modern Bible translations removed Godhead from their Bibles after they wised up and realized they were violating scripture at Revelation 22:18. The KJV publishers won't budge. They still won't remove Godhead from their Bible.

Revelation 22:18​

“I am bearing witness to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll;

Revelation 22:19​

and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things that are written about in this scroll."

But it was made popular and acceptible by Jimmy's translation. You are right of course. No arguement from me.

I would ask you how you woiuld refer to the three but you seemingly are anti-Trin but from now on I shall use the term "Under the umbrella." TYVM

I refer to the three as follows:

1. Jehovah the Father (a spirit person).
2. Jesus Christ the Son (who started off as a spirit person that did not exist until he was created by Jehovah).
3. Jehovah's holy spirit/holy ghost (something that only Jehovah the Father has control over; Jehovah God's active force that he uses to get things done).

 

[Alter2Ego]

The guy that owns, and who posts on, GotQuestions (S. Michael Houdmann) is a Trinitarian. He has no credibility.

Who is S. Michael Houdmann? | GotQuestions.org

Who is S. Michael Houdmann (S Michael Houdmann)? What is the connection between GotQuestions.org and S. Michael Houdmann?

www.gotquestions.org

This is the same joker that tried to talk his way around scripture by using the expression "eternal begotten" as a means of arguing against the fact that the word begotten refers to a created being. He, like all Trinitarians, refuse to accept that the term "only-begotten son" (with reference to Jesus Christ) means Jesus was created.

Yep and many of their articles have a Calvinist lean to them. They have an article on John 17:3 that I read recently. It's obvious they do not like that verse and want it to go away. At the end of the article it was almost as if they thought John 17:3 is gone now and the trinity arose. Pure fantasy. John 17:3 is still there and they can't change it.

These so-called religious leaders within Christendom's 41,000+ denominations--if they are ever brought back in the resurrection--will have a lot of explaining to do. I characterize their deliberate attempts at manipulating scripture as pure wickedness. They are just like the First Century religious leaders during Jesus's brief time on earth.

The scribes and Pharisees were familiar with the prophecies that point to Jesus as the Messiah, the fact that he would be identified by the performance of never-before-seen signs. But they rejected Jesus because they were looking for a political messiah.

John 11:47​

So the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered the Sanʹhe·drin together and said: “What are we to do, for this man performs many signs?

John 11:48​

If we let him go on this way, they will all put faith in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation.”


The fact that there is not one single verse of scripture in the Bible in support of Christendom's Trinity speaks volumes.

 

[mikesw]

Interesting you can't recommend the Bible for reading material about the trinity, but rather have to recommend other books. I recommend the Bible for you. Begin with John 17:3, 1 Corinthians 8:6, and Ephesians 4:6 which explicitly define the one and only true God as the Father.

I suggest other books because unitarians do not recognize what the bible says.

 

[Runningman]

These so-called religious leaders within Christendom's 41,000+ denominations--if they are ever brought back in the resurrection--will have a lot of explaining to do. I characterize their deliberate attempts at manipulating scripture as pure wickedness. They are just like the First Century religious leaders during Jesus's brief time on earth.

The scribes and Pharisees were familiar with the prophecies that point to Jesus as the Messiah, the fact that he would be identified by the performance of never-before-seen signs. But they rejected Jesus because they were looking for a political messiah.

John 11:47​

So the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered the Sanʹhe·drin together and said: “What are we to do, for this man performs many signs?

John 11:48​

If we let him go on this way, they will all put faith in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation.”


The fact that there is not one single verse of scripture in the Bible in support of Christendom's Trinity speaks volumes.

I believe if we can model our Christianity after Jesus and his teachings then that's perfect. Jesus stated his God is the Father. That's the kind of Christianity I'll follow then. The Bible teaches explicitly to walk as Jesus walked and be Christ-like. They seem to make it into a kind of sin to just follow Jesus. I personally wouldn't group them into Christendom. I would be comfortable calling them a Christian cult, but not actual brothers and sisters, no matter how nice and friendly they are. I think the bottom line is most of them have their religion and they will stick with it. Doesn't mean we can't just put the truth in front of their face and let them do the explaining to God if they are resurrected.

 

[mikesw]

I refer to the three as follows:

1. Jehovah the Father (a spirit person).
2. Jesus Christ the Son (who started off as a spirit person that did not exist until he was created by Jehovah).
3. Jehovah's holy spirit/holy ghost (something that only Jehovah the Father has control over; Jehovah God's active force that he uses to get things done).

so you have to reject pre-existence like in John 17:5. That is where unitarian interpretations start to fail.

 

[mikesw]

I believe if we can model our Christianity after Jesus and his teachings then that's perfect. Jesus stated his God is the Father. That's the kind of Christianity I'll follow then. The Bible teaches explicitly to walk as Jesus walked and be Christ-like. They seem to make it into a kind of sin to just follow Jesus. I personally wouldn't group them into Christendom. I would be comfortable calling them a Christian cult, but not actual brothers and sisters, no matter how nice and friendly they are. I think the bottom line is most of them have their religion and they will stick with it. Doesn't mean we can't just put the truth in front of their face and let them do the explaining to God if they are resurrected.

Be careful Alter2ego. runningman diminishes Christ Jesus so he can exalt himself to the level of Christ Jesus. THis is a New Age doctrine

 

[Runningman]

Be careful Alter2ego. runningman diminishes Christ Jesus so he can exalt himself to the level of Christ Jesus. THis is a New Age doctrine

You have been deceived. Scripture explicitly teaches to be like Jesus. The only reason you would deny this is because Scripture refutes you.

1 John 2
6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Philippians 2
5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Ephesians 5
1Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; 2And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet smelling savour.

1 Peter 2
21For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

 

[mikesw]

You have been deceived. Scripture explicitly teaches to be like Jesus. The only reason you would deny this is because Scripture refutes you.

1 John 2
6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Philippians 2
5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Ephesians 5
1Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; 2And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet smelling savour.

1 Peter 2
21For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

sure. suffer where you might have to as a Christian. and seek to live loving one's neighbor and showing care. I doubt you are walking on water.

Christians however do not leave the divine glory behind like Jesus did, as we see in Phil 2:5-8. So it is good you point to hisdivinity here.

 

[360watt]

The guy that owns, and who posts on, GotQuestions (S. Michael Houdmann) is a Trinitarian. He has no credibility.

Who is S. Michael Houdmann? | GotQuestions.org

Who is S. Michael Houdmann (S Michael Houdmann)? What is the connection between GotQuestions.org and S. Michael Houdmann?

www.gotquestions.org

This is the same joker that tried to talk his way around scripture by using the expression "eternal begotten" as a means of arguing against the fact that the word begotten refers to a created being. He, like all Trinitarians, refuse to accept that the term "only-begotten son" (with reference to Jesus Christ) means Jesus was created.

Begotten in context is more like 'supreme heir'. Not 'born out of'.

It is in the sense of inheritance of rulership.. by context. Not birthing.

 

[360watt]

So what's your point, 360watt? Nothing you've written thus far can change the fact that Jesus was a mere mortal human the instant his spirit life was transferred into Mary's womb. Scripture says he became lower than angels while you and other Trinitarians insist he was God in the flesh.


"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man." (Hebrews 2:9 -- King James Bible)

Humans do not have the ability to kill a literal god. They can only kill other humans and other created beings if those created beings are mortal. Deal with that.

Jesus never spiritually died. He descended to the lower parts of the earth and set free captives upon dieing in the flesh. He then returned to the flesh, although renewed in a different transfigured appearance.

 

[Alter2Ego]

Be careful Alter2ego. runningman diminishes Christ Jesus so he can exalt himself to the level of Christ Jesus. THis is a New Age doctrine

Thank you mikesw, but there's no need to warn me about other people at this website. I read what people post and usually can put two and two together. I am aware that runningman and I don't share all of the same beliefs. I figured that out from his/her Opening Post aka OP. Notice the words that I bolded in red from within runningman's OP.

I am sure all of you trinitarians have noticed by now, but the Trinity doctrine and all of its supporting doctrines are entirely circular in reasoning.
....
Consider the following common arguments produced by trinitarians, just to name a few:
....
"Jesus is the Word"
"God incarnated"

That said, Runningman at least has the sense to know there are no scriptures in the Bible in support of a 3-in-1 god.

 

[Alter2Ego]

The guy that owns, and who posts on, GotQuestions (S. Michael Houdmann) is a Trinitarian. He has no credibility.

Who is S. Michael Houdmann? | GotQuestions.org

Who is S. Michael Houdmann (S Michael Houdmann)? What is the connection between GotQuestions.org and S. Michael Houdmann?

www.gotquestions.org

This is the same joker that tried to talk his way around scripture by using the expression "eternal begotten" as a means of arguing against the fact that the word begotten refers to a created being. He, like all Trinitarians, refuse to accept that the term "only-begotten son" (with reference to Jesus Christ) means Jesus was created.

Begotten in context is more like 'supreme heir'. Not 'born out of'.

It is in the sense of inheritance of rulership.. by context. Not birthing.

Which context are you referring to? You haven't provided any.

It so happens that the word begat (of which begotten is the past participle) is applied to all mortal humans in the Bible.

 

[Alter2Ego]

I refer to the three as follows:

1. Jehovah the Father (a spirit person).
2. Jesus Christ the Son (who started off as a spirit person that did not exist until he was created by Jehovah).
3. Jehovah's holy spirit/holy ghost (something that only Jehovah the Father has control over; Jehovah God's active force that he uses to get things done).

so you have to reject pre-existence like in John 17:5. That is where unitarian interpretations start to fail.

mikesw:

Exactly what do you mean by the term "pre-existence"? John 17:5 says Jesus--as a created being--existed before other created beings.

John 17:5​

"So now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was."

 

[Alter2Ego]

Jesus never spiritually died. He descended to the lower parts of the earth and set free captives upon dieing in the flesh. He then returned to the flesh, although renewed in a different transfigured appearance.

Scriptural support, please. I'm not interested in your personal philosophy.

 

[mikesw]

You have been deceived. Scripture explicitly teaches to be like Jesus. The only reason you would deny this is because Scripture refutes you.

1 John 2
6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Philippians 2
5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Ephesians 5
1Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; 2And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet smelling savour.

1 Peter 2
21For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Then why do you deny his divinity? You must expect that Jesus denied who he is. But that would be self-contradictory for Jesus to do that. Only a Schoenheit would believe that.
Somehow you think repeating the same scriptures will somehow endorse your errant interpretations. If you suffer though, it is because you misrepresent Jesus. It would not be suffering for the sake of the gospel.

 

[mikesw]

Thank you mikesw, but there's no need to warn me about other people at this website. I read what people post and usually can put two and two together. I am aware that runningman and I don't share all of the same beliefs. I figured that out from his/her Opening Post aka OP. Notice the words that I bolded in red from within runningman's OP.



That said, Runningman at least has the sense to know there are no scriptures in the Bible in support of a 3-in-1 god.

Maybe his unitarian bible does not allow him to recognize the Triune God.

I assume you are of the Oneness heresy then? It is hard to keep track of the various misinterpretations happening here.

 

[mikesw]

mikesw:

Exactly what do you mean by the term "pre-existence"? John 17:5 says Jesus--as a created being--existed before other created beings.

John 17:5​

"So now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was."

He could not be a created being that existed in non-existence. The world was created through him and apart from him nothing came into existence that came into existence. This means that the Son exists before any created thing could come into existence.

The problem with taking divergent doctrines is that they only come afoul of scriptures. Those doctrines are all ill-informed and lack the discipline of dedicated study -- or else are really just off-track from the beginning

 

[mikesw]

I believe if we can model our Christianity after Jesus and his teachings then that's perfect. Jesus stated his God is the Father. That's the kind of Christianity I'll follow then. The Bible teaches explicitly to walk as Jesus walked and be Christ-like. They seem to make it into a kind of sin to just follow Jesus. I personally wouldn't group them into Christendom. I would be comfortable calling them a Christian cult, but not actual brothers and sisters, no matter how nice and friendly they are. I think the bottom line is most of them have their religion and they will stick with it. Doesn't mean we can't just put the truth in front of their face and let them do the explaining to God if they are resurrected.

The problem is that unitarian doctrine disregards too much of scripture. We see obvious bad approaches taken by Schoenheit and Peterlag who treat scripture as statistical so as to reject Jesus' words as in Matt 28:19-20. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for overriding the laws of God with their own oral traditions. That is what we see Schoenheit doing as well.