The misuse and abuse of John 17:3 by Unitarians to promote Unitarianism.

Conclusion:

A. The evidence that "Let US make man in OUR image". (Gen 1:26) refers to the Trinity is irrefutable.

  1. The unanimous interpretation of all the apostolic fathers from 100 - 300 AD was that the US of Gen 1:26 referred to the trinity.

Why do you resort to the apostolic fathers from 100-300 AD and not to the Jews?
When did Jews interpret Genesis 1:26 as referring to the Trinity?
Is it possible that God revealed the Book of Genesis and did not bother to teach Israel during so many centuries that He was triune?
 
Yes I do believe there's something else. There's this...

I would also like to add that I am concerned with fellowshipping with God as I love and worship Him with all my heart, mind, soul, and strength. But it's the Christ that I am fellowshipping with to the end that I am moving back and forth with him and thereby able to have a relationship with him. I now spend much of my time right inside the spirit as close as I can get right in their face. The Greek word menō translated "abide" often deals with being in him, which I'm very concerned about when it comes to walking in Christ, which I believe is the same as walking in the spirit. To be in him or to abide in him deals with remaining or continuing to be present. To dwell, live, and be within him to the end that we are operative in him by his divine influence and energy. My first red flag that started me looking into how to do this was when I realized it's the Catholics that teach we are sinners. They teach us to look at ourselves and our sin. I teach that we should look at Christ and to walk in his spirit.

That's true and beautiful. What you say is the center of the subject of "worshiping Christ".
My point is that Christian Trinitarians and Christian Unitarians can equally do what you say.

So, our friends @synergy, @civic or @TomL have no reason to think to worry or to accuse Unitarians of anything.
Whatever they do in their daily life to "worship Christ" is what you and I already do.
 
Why do you resort to the apostolic fathers from 100-300 AD and not to the Jews?
When did Jews interpret Genesis 1:26 as referring to the Trinity?
Is it possible that God revealed the Book of Genesis and did not bother to teach Israel during so many centuries that He was triune?
The consistency goes from the Bible through those I quoted. Doctrinal consistency:)
 
you are consistent in doctrinal error. That is the problem. You misconceive of the deity of Christ and many other errors fall into place. You have done all this without making a sensible argument. I have considered some of your arguments but they all fail.
It's not about you or how well you live out your life. It's about what God...

wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
 
The consistency goes from the Bible through those I quoted. Doctrinal consistency:)
Thanks for your response, civic.
The reason of my question is that Jews have never seen such "doctrinal consistency" of Elohim suggesting a Trinity.
They have their own explanations, based on the use of Hebrew language. They have examples on how Elohim and Eloha (singular) are both used, and how Elohim is also applied to false gods, like Dagon (god of Philistines) and Chemoch (god of Moab).

If the knowledge of God of Christians comes from the Jews, I wonder why the article on your post does not make any reference to what the Jews think about such thesis. It seems like, suddenly, by reading the very same text that Hebrews had been reading for more than a millenia, Christians of the second century discovered something new: that God consisted in three Persons.

Actually, the text you posted recognizes that the concept of the Trinity was "hidden" in the Old Testament. According to the article, it was "discovered" after the coming of Christ. Quoting from your post (underlying is mine):

"C. The plural nouns and pro-nouns applied to God, like WE, US, OUR, Elohim, Adonai are powerful evidence of the Trinity hidden in the Old Testament, to be discovered after the coming of Christ."

This is why I ask:
Why would God keep his triune identity "hidden" from Israel?
Why would God keep asking Israel to consider Him as One?

Why would Christians from the second century "discover" something that neither Jesus nor the prophets of God taught... something that was the most striking difference between Judaism and other religions?
 
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That's true and beautiful. What you say is the center of the subject of "worshiping Christ".
My point is that Christian Trinitarians and Christian Unitarians can equally do what you say.

So, our friends @synergy, @civic or @TomL have no reason to think to worry or to accuse Unitarians of anything.
Whatever they do in their daily life to "worship Christ" is what you and I already do.
Don't think so

John 5:23 (KJV 1900) — 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
 
Don't think so

John 5:23 (KJV 1900) — 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

If you don't think so, I beg you to give us an example.
Mention any behavior, from the time a Unitarian wakes up in the morning, to the time a Unitarian goes to sleep, that shows that such Unitarian does not honor the Son as he honors the Father.

I can tell you now, that I honor the Son as I honor the Father. I know no other way to do it.
I can't think in a single action that would dishonor the Son and not the Father, or a single thing that honors the Son and would not honor the Father.
 
If you don't think so, I beg you to give us an example.
Mention any behavior, from the time a Unitarian wakes up in the morning, to the time a Unitarian goes to sleep, that shows that such Unitarian does not honor the Son as he honors the Father.

I can tell you now, that I honor the Son as I honor the Father. I know no other way to do it.
I can't think in a single action that would dishonor the Son and not the Father, or a single thing that honors the Son and would not honor the Father.
The unitarian does not worship or pray to the Son as he does to the Father.

I do not think you do either.
 
Hi @civic, @synergy and @Johann

Nobody has been able to give an example of an activity that proves that you do to worship Jesus, and that an Unitarian would NOT do.
I have put this challenge weeks ago and nobody has come with a single example.

So far, "worshiping Jesus" is just rhetoric, without any ground on daily practice.

To summarize the responses some of you have tried

Sing hymns to Jesus. Any Unitarian can sign a hymn to Jesus. I have no problem with doing that. So, that's not an activity that separates Trinitarians from Unitarians.

Pray to Jesus. Most Trinitarians in the world pray to the Father, and never or almost never to Jesus. So, that's not an activity that separates Trinitarians from Unitarians. In any case, I have no issue in praying to Jesus.

Kneeling before Jesus. This is another thing that Unitarians can do without a problem. I can do it happily and feeling honored. So, that's not an activity that separates Trinitarians from Unitarians. In any case, I have no issue in praying to Jesus.

Is there something else?
Are you going to keep accusing Unitarians of not doing a thing that you can't even explain?
Let's start with worshiping Jesus (along with the Father) for all eternity in Heaven as is happening right now. How will Muslims respond this reality since it's shirk to associate anyone with Allah? What will Pharisaic Judaizing Unitarians do when they see all of Heaven worshipping Jesus? There will have to be Detoxification camps set up for all unitarians.

Worshipping Jesus is not only in Heaven but also on Earth, in our Trinitarian Churches. Our worship services are based on the Deity of Christ, primarily centered on the Lord's Supper that he instituted.

Because Jesus, as God, is omnipresent, then he abides in all believers. It is impossible for a created being to abide in another human. Either Jesus abides in you and you abide in Jesus or you are a non-Christian. Jesus also abides in the Lords Supper (John 6:51). No human can possibly do that.

Because Jesus, as God, is omniscient, then he hears all believers' prayers. It is impossible for a created being to listen to each and everyone's prayers across the world.

Because Jesus, as God, is omnipotent, then we can rest assured that he has conquered death. Only God can save so if Jesus is not God then we are in deep deep trouble.

There is much more....
 
Let's start with worshiping Jesus (along with the Father) for all eternity in Heaven as is happening right now. How will Muslims respond this reality since it's shirk to associate anyone with Allah? What will Pharisaic Judaizing Unitarians do when they see all of Heaven worshipping Jesus? There will have to be Detoxification camps set up for all unitarians.

Worshipping Jesus is not only in Heaven but also on Earth, in our Trinitarian Churches. Our worship services are based on the Deity of Christ, primarily centered on the Lord's Supper that he instituted.

Because Jesus, as God, is omnipresent, then he abides in all believers. It is impossible for a created being to abide in another human. Either Jesus abides in you and you abide in Jesus or you are a non-Christian. Jesus also abides in the Lords Supper (John 6:51). No human can possibly do that.

Because Jesus, as God, is omniscient, then he hears all believers' prayers. It is impossible for a created being to listen to each and everyone's prayers across the world.

Because Jesus, as God, is omnipotent, then we can rest assured that he has conquered death. Only God can save so if Jesus is not God then we are in deep deep trouble.

There is much more....
Dear @TomL and @synergy

Thanks for your posts. You have mentioned only three specific actions: 1) to participate in the Lord’s Supper, 2) to participate in religious services based on the Deity of Christ, and 3) praying to Jesus.

So Let’s examine these behaviors:

PARTICIPATING OF LORD’S SUPPER

We know Christian Unitarians also participate in the Commemoration of the Lord’s Supper. Therefore, if that were a distinctive sign, you could say that Christian Unitarians worship Jesus.

ATTENDING RELIGIOUS SERVICES BASED ON THE DEITY OF CHRIST

I won’t be surprised to know that more than 95% of the sermons or speeches said in Trinitarian and Unitarian churches have nothing to do with affirming or denying Jesus deity, and the brethren are not thinking on whether Jesus is God or not when they are attemding the service.
But even when this happens, what is the impact of such sermons on the life of the brethren? Are the Trinitarians going to behave different from the Unitarians once they get home from the church? Will they eat differently, have a gentler family talk, watch less mundane TV shows, or help more those in need? Will they have different naps, dinners, or make love to their spouses differently?

PRAYING TO JESUS

Millions of Trinitarians do not pray to Jesus, but to the Father in the name of Jesus, just like Christian Unitarians. Therefore, praying to Jesus cannot be considered an action that separates those who claim to worship Jesus from those who don’t.
Now, I can pray to Jesus right now. Please find my public prayer to Jesus on next post.

PRELIMINARY CONCLUSION

We still don’t have one single example of what worshiping Jesus means in the way we live every day.
@synergy says “there is much more”… is that so?
OK, let’s see. Please go ahead, @synergy.
 
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PANCHO FRIJOLES’ PERSONAL PRAYER TO JESUS

In the Name of the Most Merciful, The Munificent

O, Jesus Christ, I come lowly and tearful to declare my gratitude for Thee.
Thou were obedient and submitted Thy will to Our God. Help me to be obedient too.
Thou hadst words of healing, mercy and consolation. Help me to be meek too.
May Thy light and love shine through my poor and tiny lamp, so that all people can glorify Our God.
Thou hast walked with me, even in my darkest hours. Please keep me in the Way to Our Father.
Fill my heart with Thy love, so that I may love those who invoke Thy Name in this Forum.
Intercede to God, I implore Thee, for my sins and weaknesses.
Thou art Pure. I am nothing but a poor sinner who yearns to follow Thy steps and be part of Thy Kingdom,

should I be the last and the smallest one to go through those Pearly Doors.
Thanks for Thy life, Thy sacrifice, and Thy truth.
Thanks for Thy promise to come in the Glory of God. I see Thee in such Glory and praise Thy New Name.
I accept and proclaim Thy lordship on my knees, for the glory of Our God and Father.

God is The Greatest !
God is The Most Glorious!
His is the Kingdom, Sovereignty and Glory forever!
 
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Dear @TomL and @synergy

Thanks for your posts. You have mentioned only three specific actions: 1) to participate in the Lord’s Supper, 2) to participate in religious services based on the Deity of Christ, and 3) praying to Jesus.

So Let’s examine these behaviors:

PARTICIPATING OF LORD’S SUPPER

We know Christian Unitarians also participate in the Commemoration of the Lord’s Supper. Therefore, if that were a distinctive sign, you could say that Christian Unitarians worship Jesus.

ATTENDING RELIGIOUS SERVICES BASED ON THE DEITY OF CHRIST

I won’t be surprised to know that more than 95% of the sermons or speeches said in Trinitarian and Unitarian churches have nothing to do with affirming or denying Jesus deity, and the brethren are not thinking on whether Jesus is God or not when they are attemding the service.
But even when this happens, what is the impact of such sermons on the life of the brethren? Are the Trinitarians going to behave different from the Unitarians once they get home from the church? Will they eat differently, have a gentler family talk, watch less mundane TV shows, or help more those in need? Will they have different naps, dinners, or make love to their spouses differently?

PRAYING TO JESUS

Millions of Trinitarians do not pray to Jesus, but to the Father in the name of Jesus, just like Christian Unitarians. Therefore, praying to Jesus cannot be considered an action that separates those who claim to worship Jesus from those who don’t.
Now, I can pray to Jesus right now. Please find my public prayer to Jesus on next post.

PRELIMINARY CONCLUSION

We still don’t have one single example of what worshiping Jesus means in the way we live every day.
@synergy says “there is much more”… is that so?
OK, let’s see. Please go ahead, @synergy.
Here are some more differences, not in detail. There are more topics than these.

1. Christology (View of Christ's Nature)

Trinitarians:

Fully Divine and Fully Human: Trinitarians believe that Jesus Christ is both fully divine and fully human. He is the Second Person of the Holy Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) and is eternally God, who became incarnate through the Virgin Mary to accomplish the salvation of humanity.

Savior and Atoner: Jesus' role is central to salvation. His divine nature and atoning death on the cross are crucial for reconciling humanity with God.

Unitarians:

Human Jesus: Unitarians reject the divinity of Christ. They view Jesus as a human being, a moral teacher, and prophet who serves as an example of how to live a righteous life. He is not seen as the divine Son of God.

No Atoning Death: Jesus' death is viewed as a tragic event, but not as an atoning sacrifice for sin. It may be seen as an example of self-sacrifice or a martyr's death rather than a necessary means of salvation.


2. Pneumatology (View of the Holy Spirit)

Trinitarians:

Third Person of the Trinity: The Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity. Trinitarians believe the Holy Spirit is fully God, co-equal with the Father and the Son, and active in the world, empowering believers, convicting them of sin, and guiding them into truth.

Indwelling Presence: The Holy Spirit dwells in believers, enabling them to live holy lives, manifest spiritual gifts, and engage in ministry.

Unitarians:

Impersonal Force: Unitarians generally do not recognize the Holy Spirit as a distinct person. Instead, they may view the "spirit" as God's presence or influence in the world. It is often seen as a force that inspires goodness or guides people to moral behavior, but not as a divine person of the Trinity.

3. Ecclesiology (View of the Church)

Trinitarians:

The Church as the Body of Christ: The Church is viewed as the universal body of Christ, a divinely instituted community of believers, united through faith in the triune God. The Church’s purpose is to proclaim the gospel, administer sacraments, and support believers in their spiritual growth.

Sacramental and Doctrinal: The Church is seen as a means of grace, and it adheres to creeds, sacraments (e.g., baptism, the Eucharist), and authoritative teachings (e.g., Nicene or Apostles' Creed).

Unitarians:

A Community of Ethical Living: For Unitarians, the Church is more a fellowship of like-minded individuals who seek to live ethical lives based on reason and personal spiritual experience. There is no formal, universal body as seen in traditional Christianity, and Unitarian congregations tend to have a non-creedal or flexible approach to doctrine.

Focus on Social Justice: The Church may emphasize social justice, human dignity, and environmental concerns, but without adherence to specific doctrinal beliefs about God or Christ.

4. Sacraments (View of Sacraments)

Trinitarians:

Means of Grace: Trinitarians view sacraments (such as baptism and the Eucharist) as instituted by Christ and essential for the life of the Church. They are means of grace, spiritual acts that convey divine blessings to the believer.

Baptism and Communion: Baptism is seen as the initiation into the Christian faith, and the Eucharist is central to worship, symbolizing the body and blood of Christ, often seen as an actual participation in Christ’s life and death.

Unitarians:

Symbolic and Optional: Unitarians may observe some rituals like communion, but these are generally symbolic and not seen as essential means of grace. They may not hold to a sacramental theology, focusing more on moral teachings than ritual acts.

Emphasis on Ethical Living: While rituals may be observed, they are seen as a way to reflect on moral values rather than a necessary part of spiritual life.

5. Annunciation (View of the Announcement of Christ’s Birth)

Trinitarians:

Divine Conception: The Annunciation, where the Angel Gabriel announces to Mary that she will conceive the Son of God by the Holy Spirit, is viewed as a central moment in the story of the Incarnation. It signifies the beginning of the divine taking on human nature in Jesus Christ.

Unitarians:

Human Birth: Unitarians do not see the Annunciation as the divine conception of God becoming human. Instead, they see it as the announcement of the birth of a child who will grow into a great moral teacher, but not a divine being.

6. Incarnation (View of Christ’s Incarnation)

Trinitarians:

God Becoming Flesh: The Incarnation is the belief that God the Son took on human flesh in the person of Jesus Christ. This union of divine and human natures is essential for the salvation of humanity, as only a divine Savior could atone for sin.

Unitarians:

Jesus as Human: Unitarians believe Jesus was a human being who embodied divine moral wisdom but reject the notion that he was God incarnate. They see the Incarnation as a symbolic or non-literal concept.


7. The Cross (View of Christ’s Death)

Trinitarians:

Atoning Sacrifice: The death of Christ on the cross is central to Trinitarian theology. It is seen as the necessary atoning sacrifice for the sins of humanity. Through His death, Jesus reconciles humanity to God, making salvation possible.

Unitarians:

Sacrificial Example: For Unitarians, the cross represents Jesus' ultimate act of sacrificial love. It is seen as an example of moral fortitude, not as an atoning sacrifice for sin. Jesus’ death is viewed as a tragic event but not essential for human salvation.

8. Resurrection (View of Christ’s Resurrection)

Trinitarians:

Bodily Resurrection: The resurrection of Jesus is a literal, bodily event that signifies His victory over sin and death. It is the foundation of the Christian hope in eternal life and a central part of salvation.

Unitarians:

Spiritual Resurrection: Unitarians may see the resurrection of Jesus as a symbolic event that points to spiritual renewal or the continuation of His teachings, rather than as a literal bodily resurrection. The emphasis is often on moral and ethical transformation.

9. Ascension (View of Christ’s Ascension)

Trinitarians:

Return to the Father: The ascension of Jesus marks His return to heaven, affirming His divine authority and the completion of His earthly mission. It signifies Christ’s continuing role as the mediator between God and humanity.

Unitarians:

Symbolic Event: For Unitarians, the ascension may be seen as a symbolic event, representing Jesus’ ultimate return to the divine or his ongoing spiritual influence. They typically do not interpret it as a literal event involving physical ascent to heaven.

10. Salvation (View of How One is Saved)

Trinitarians:

Salvation Through Christ: Salvation is understood as a gift from God, offered through faith in Jesus Christ. Through His death and resurrection, Christ provides the means by which believers are reconciled to God and saved from sin.

Unitarians:

Ethical Growth and Moral Living: Salvation is seen as a process of moral and spiritual development. Unitarians emphasize living a good life, making ethical decisions, and striving toward personal improvement and social justice as the path to spiritual fulfillment.

11. Prayers (View of Prayer)

Trinitarians:

Trinitarian Prayer: Trinitarian prayers are typically addressed to God the Father, through the Son, in the power of the Holy Spirit. Prayer is a means of communion with the triune God, and it is often structured and formal, especially in liturgical settings.

Unitarians:

Direct Prayer to God: Unitarians generally pray directly to God without invoking Jesus or the Holy Spirit. Their prayers focus on personal spiritual reflection, moral guidance, and petitions for wisdom and justice. There is often an emphasis on reason and intellectual engagement in prayer.

12. Eschatology (View of the End Times)

Trinitarians:

Second Coming: Trinitarians believe in a literal second coming of Christ, where Jesus will return to judge the living and the dead. This includes a final judgment, the resurrection of the dead, and the establishment of God’s eternal kingdom.

Heaven and Hell: Those who accept Christ will experience eternal life in heaven, while those who reject Christ face eternal separation from God (hell).

Unitarians:

Symbolic or Ethical View: Unitarians tend to interpret eschatology more symbolically or ethically. The focus is on the ongoing work of redemption in the world through human effort, progress, and social justice.

No Literal Judgment: Many Unitarians reject the idea of a literal hell or eternal punishment, instead emphasizing spiritual growth and moral progress over time.
 
God is spirit. I am flesh. My flesh does not go around saying he's another me.
God do. Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."

Who is God OWN ARM? scripture, Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?" Isaiah 53:2 "For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him." Isaiah 53:3 "He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not." Isaiah 53:4 "Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted."

must 101G go on?
 
Here are some more differences, not in detail. There are more topics than these.
What you are listing here are differences in views or doctrines*, not in acts or behaviors. Look to this list one by one

1. Christology (View of Christ's Nature)

Trinitarians:

Fully Divine and Fully Human: Trinitarians believe that Jesus Christ is both fully divine and fully human. He is the Second Person of the Holy Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) and is eternally God, who became incarnate through the Virgin Mary to accomplish the salvation of humanity.

Savior and Atoner: Jesus' role is central to salvation. His divine nature and atoning death on the cross are crucial for reconciling humanity with God.

Unitarians:

Human Jesus: Unitarians reject the divinity of Christ. They view Jesus as a human being, a moral teacher, and prophet who serves as an example of how to live a righteous life. He is not seen as the divine Son of God.

No Atoning Death: Jesus' death is viewed as a tragic event, but not as an atoning sacrifice for sin. It may be seen as an example of self-sacrifice or a martyr's death rather than a necessary means of salvation.
Most Christian Unitarians do believe in Jesus atonement. Even Jehovah Witnesses.
Still, the belief in a blood atonement does not change the way people repent and are transformed into new creatures. In a blinded experiment among 100 people chosen at random, you could not tell who believes in blood atonement and who does not.
All stories in the Bible of people who showed genuine repentance, were forgiven by God without being required to confess any belief in blood atonement.
Take Samson, David, Isaiah, the tax collector, Magdalene, Peter, Saul, you name it.
2. Pneumatology (View of the Holy Spirit)

Trinitarians:

Third Person of the Trinity: The Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity. Trinitarians believe the Holy Spirit is fully God, co-equal with the Father and the Son, and active in the world, empowering believers, convicting them of sin, and guiding them into truth.

Indwelling Presence: The Holy Spirit dwells in believers, enabling them to live holy lives, manifest spiritual gifts, and engage in ministry.

Unitarians:

Impersonal Force: Unitarians generally do not recognize the Holy Spirit as a distinct person. Instead, they may view the "spirit" as God's presence or influence in the world. It is often seen as a force that inspires goodness or guides people to moral behavior, but not as a divine person of the Trinity.
And so what? How does those theological nuances make people follow the guidance Holy Spirit ?
Do you need to believe that the Holy Spirit is the Third Person of the Trinity in order to be Temple of the Holy Spirit?
Which prophet had to believe that in order to speak inspired by the Holy Spirit?
3. Ecclesiology (View of the Church)

Trinitarians:

The Church as the Body of Christ: The Church is viewed as the universal body of Christ, a divinely instituted community of believers, united through faith in the triune God. The Church’s purpose is to proclaim the gospel, administer sacraments, and support believers in their spiritual growth.

Sacramental and Doctrinal: The Church is seen as a means of grace, and it adheres to creeds, sacraments (e.g., baptism, the Eucharist), and authoritative teachings (e.g., Nicene or Apostles' Creed).

Unitarians:

A Community of Ethical Living: For Unitarians, the Church is more a fellowship of like-minded individuals who seek to live ethical lives based on reason and personal spiritual experience. There is no formal, universal body as seen in traditional Christianity, and Unitarian congregations tend to have a non-creedal or flexible approach to doctrine.

Focus on Social Justice: The Church may emphasize social justice, human dignity, and environmental concerns, but without adherence to specific doctrinal beliefs about God or Christ.
And so what? Actually, you pictured Unitarians in a much better light here.
4. Sacraments (View of Sacraments)

Trinitarians:

Means of Grace: Trinitarians view sacraments (such as baptism and the Eucharist) as instituted by Christ and essential for the life of the Church. They are means of grace, spiritual acts that convey divine blessings to the believer.

Baptism and Communion: Baptism is seen as the initiation into the Christian faith, and the Eucharist is central to worship, symbolizing the body and blood of Christ, often seen as an actual participation in Christ’s life and death.

Unitarians:

Symbolic and Optional: Unitarians may observe some rituals like communion, but these are generally symbolic and not seen as essential means of grace. They may not hold to a sacramental theology, focusing more on moral teachings than ritual acts.

Emphasis on Ethical Living: While rituals may be observed, they are seen as a way to reflect on moral values rather than a necessary part of spiritual life.
Again, you pictured Unitarians as smarter and cooler. I don’t believe that, but that’s how you pictured them.
On the other hand, Catholics would have something to say about the poor value that Protestants give to sacraments. They would criticize that you don’t enjoy the blessing of being physicaly one with Christ by eating his flesh in the host.
5. Annunciation (View of the Announcement of Christ’s Birth)

Trinitarians:

Divine Conception: The Annunciation, where the Angel Gabriel announces to Mary that she will conceive the Son of God by the Holy Spirit, is viewed as a central moment in the story of the Incarnation. It signifies the beginning of the divine taking on human nature in Jesus Christ.

Unitarians:

Human Birth: Unitarians do not see the Annunciation as the divine conception of God becoming human. Instead, they see it as the announcement of the birth of a child who will grow into a great moral teacher, but not a divine being.
And so what? How does their view on incarnation change the daily life of a Trinitarian and Unitarian at home, at work, at school?
Give us one example. Only one.
6. Incarnation (View of Christ’s Incarnation)

Trinitarians:

God Becoming Flesh: The Incarnation is the belief that God the Son took on human flesh in the person of Jesus Christ. This union of divine and human natures is essential for the salvation of humanity, as only a divine Savior could atone for sin.

Unitarians:

Jesus as Human: Unitarians believe Jesus was a human being who embodied divine moral wisdom but reject the notion that he was God incarnate. They see the Incarnation as a symbolic or non-literal concept.
As above.
7. The Cross (View of Christ’s Death)
Again, and so what? Do Trinitarians and Unitarians weep more or less when they recognize their sin? Are they more or less committed to go to their neighbor and confess their sin and repair the damage made?
8. Resurrection (View of Christ’s Resurrection)
And so what? Do people need Jesus to eat and sweat, or have lungs and hair in order to love Him and follow Him?
If Jesus is invisible for both Trinitarians and Unitarians. So they both believe in Him by faith.
9. Ascension (View of Christ’s Ascension)

Trinitarians:

Return to the Father: The ascension of Jesus marks His return to heaven, affirming His divine authority and the completion of His earthly mission. It signifies Christ’s continuing role as the mediator between God and humanity.

Unitarians:

Symbolic Event: For Unitarians, the ascension may be seen as a symbolic event, representing Jesus’ ultimate return to the divine or his ongoing spiritual influence. They typically do not interpret it as a literal event involving physical ascent to heaven.
And….? How does the literal or symbolic interpretation of the Ascencion change their lives?
10. Salvation (View of How One is Saved)

Trinitarians:

Salvation Through Christ: Salvation is understood as a gift from God, offered through faith in Jesus Christ. Through His death and resurrection, Christ provides the means by which believers are reconciled to God and saved from sin.

Unitarians:

Ethical Growth and Moral Living: Salvation is seen as a process of moral and spiritual development. Unitarians emphasize living a good life, making ethical decisions, and striving toward personal improvement and social justice as the path to spiritual fulfillment.
Salvation by grace implies “moral and spiritual devlopment”. There is no point for Christ sacrifice and resurrection if we are not going to be a “good life, making ethical decisions”. So, in the end you see no difference between what a Trinitarian and a Unitarian do from 6:00 AM to 11:00 PM.
Besides, as I have said, many Unitarians do believe in blood atonement.

11. Prayers (View of Prayer)

Trinitarians:

Trinitarian Prayer: Trinitarian prayers are typically addressed to God the Father, through the Son, in the power of the Holy Spirit. Prayer is a means of communion with the triune God, and it is often structured and formal, especially in liturgical settings.

Unitarians:

Direct Prayer to God: Unitarians generally pray directly to God without invoking Jesus or the Holy Spirit. Their prayers focus on personal spiritual reflection, moral guidance, and petitions for wisdom and justice. There is often an emphasis on reason and intellectual engagement in prayer.
And so what? Does God turn his head to the other side when a Unitarian prays to Him in humbleness?
12. Eschatology (View of the End Times)

Trinitarians:

Second Coming: Trinitarians believe in a literal second coming of Christ, where Jesus will return to judge the living and the dead. This includes a final judgment, the resurrection of the dead, and the establishment of God’s eternal kingdom.

Heaven and Hell: Those who accept Christ will experience eternal life in heaven, while those who reject Christ face eternal separation from God (hell).

Unitarians:

Symbolic or Ethical View: Unitarians tend to interpret eschatology more symbolically or ethically. The focus is on the ongoing work of redemption in the world through human effort, progress, and social justice.

No Literal Judgment: Many Unitarians reject the idea of a literal hell or eternal punishment, instead emphasizing spiritual growth and moral progress over time.
And so what? Does the Unitarian sin more beacuse she doesn’t believe in a lake of fire? Does the Trinitarian sin less because she does believe in such kind of hell? Both Trinitatians and Unitarians focus on heaven, not on hell.
 
God do. Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."

Who is God OWN ARM? scripture, Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?" Isaiah 53:2 "For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him." Isaiah 53:3 "He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not." Isaiah 53:4 "Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted."

must 101G go on?
You don't even understand the figures of speech in the Bible. God has no arm. He's Spirit.

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Dear @TomL and @synergy

Thanks for your posts. You have mentioned only three specific actions: 1) to participate in the Lord’s Supper, 2) to participate in religious services based on the Deity of Christ, and 3) praying to Jesus.

So Let’s examine these behaviors:

PARTICIPATING OF LORD’S SUPPER

We know Christian Unitarians also participate in the Commemoration of the Lord’s Supper. Therefore, if that were a distinctive sign, you could say that Christian Unitarians worship Jesus.

ATTENDING RELIGIOUS SERVICES BASED ON THE DEITY OF CHRIST

I won’t be surprised to know that more than 95% of the sermons or speeches said in Trinitarian and Unitarian churches have nothing to do with affirming or denying Jesus deity, and the brethren are not thinking on whether Jesus is God or not when they are attemding the service.
But even when this happens, what is the impact of such sermons on the life of the brethren? Are the Trinitarians going to behave different from the Unitarians once they get home from the church? Will they eat differently, have a gentler family talk, watch less mundane TV shows, or help more those in need? Will they have different naps, dinners, or make love to their spouses differently?

PRAYING TO JESUS

Millions of Trinitarians do not pray to Jesus, but to the Father in the name of Jesus, just like Christian Unitarians. Therefore, praying to Jesus cannot be considered an action that separates those who claim to worship Jesus from those who don’t.
Now, I can pray to Jesus right now. Please find my public prayer to Jesus on next post.

PRELIMINARY CONCLUSION

We still don’t have one single example of what worshiping Jesus means in the way we live every day.
@synergy says “there is much more”… is that so?
OK, let’s see. Please go ahead, @synergy.
Seeing as you term those who deny Christ's deity Christian and you do not know what real Christians do privately, your claims are of no value
 
Thanks for your response, civic.
The reason of my question is that Jews have never seen such "doctrinal consistency" of Elohim suggesting a Trinity.
They have their own explanations, based on the use of Hebrew language. They have examples on how Elohim and Eloha (singular) are both used, and how Elohim is also applied to false gods, like Dagon (god of Philistines) and Chemoch (god of Moab).

If the knowledge of God of Christians comes from the Jews, I wonder why the article on your post does not make any reference to what the Jews think about such thesis. It seems like, suddenly, by reading the very same text that Hebrews had been reading for more than a millenia, Christians of the second century discovered something new: that God consisted in three Persons.

Actually, the text you posted recognizes that the concept of the Trinity was "hidden" in the Old Testament. According to the article, it was "discovered" after the coming of Christ. Quoting from your post (underlying is mine):

"C. The plural nouns and pro-nouns applied to God, like WE, US, OUR, Elohim, Adonai are powerful evidence of the Trinity hidden in the Old Testament, to be discovered after the coming of Christ."

This is why I ask:
Why would God keep his triune identity "hidden" from Israel?
Why would God keep asking Israel to consider Him as One?

Why would Christians from the second century "discover" something that neither Jesus nor the prophets of God taught... something that was the most striking difference between Judaism and other religions?
You seem to forget the first Christians were all Jews

And that the only scriptures they had were from the Old Testament and Jesus showed from those Old Testament scriptures who he is.

Why do you judge based upon the views of those who scripture termed hardened and stiff-necked - those who rejected Christ ?
 
God do. Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."

Who is God OWN ARM? scripture, Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?" Isaiah 53:2 "For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him." Isaiah 53:3 "He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not." Isaiah 53:4 "Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted."

must 101G go on?
Arm is just a metaphor for a source of power, not a physical body part. In Isaiah 53 he is other than the him he grew up before
 
Seeing as you term those who deny Christ's deity Christian and you do not know what real Christians do privately, your claims are of no value
Choose whatever term you prefer. The question remains unanswered.
What do you do in your daily life to worship Jesus… something a Unitarian could not do?
If you can’t provide an answer, that means that accusing Unitarians of not worshiping Jesus is just a stupid way to quarrel over nothing.
 
You don't even understand the figures of speech in the Bible. God has no arm. He's Spirit.

View attachment 1089
GINOLJC, to all
yes, 101G do. what you need to do is follow God usage of figure of speech in the bible. the term right hand, or arm of God, is a anthropomorphism. meaning the attribution of human form or behavior given to a deity to understand its actions, here it means in Power, (the "authority” and the “ability”, or “might”, to do something). and God give a clear example of this FUNCTION in the book of 2 Chronicles 32... LEARN,

"The Arm of flesh vs The Arm of the LORD, “authority”
2 Chronicles 32:7 "Be strong and courageous, be not afraid nor dismayed for the king of Assyria, nor for all the multitude that is with him: for there be more with us than with him: 8 With him is an arm of flesh; but with us is the LORD our God to help us, and to fight our battles. And the people rested themselves upon the words of Hezekiah king of Judah". one of the failing prompts of the Unitarians, JW and many belief, and others is this. they say, "Jesus is not God", and one of there excuses, "he could do nothing of himself", John 8:28 "Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things”. as the "the ARM of God", he was not authorized to act alone. this is clear as with the Assyrian army. no army act alone, or on their own power. not even our, the American Army, just get up and go to war with another country without authorization from the commander in chief, or congress. just as my own physical arm don't wave unless I authorized it to wave. the head gives direction to the body. this is explained in the understanding of the use of POWERS, the G1411 dunamis, and the G1849 exousia. just as the Army can do nothing of their own so do the Lord Jesus, he don't act alone. hence one of the reasons why he was in G2758 keno, (to abase, neutralize, or make of none effect) state. but at his baptism he was authorized with G1849 exousia (POWER) to act in the NAME of God, who doth the work. as to forgive sin, heal the sick, raise the dead, and so on. he is our example of how the G1849 exousia works. and that's why we, as 1 John 3:2a states, "now we're the Sons of God". because we were not before. by default, we were the son of the evil one. our Lord Jesus having the NATURE, (see Phil 2:5) of God. yes, HAVING, is BEING IN THE FORM of God, having his nature, he took on our humanity. so that as the "KINSMAN" redeemer in flesh and blood he then could give that BLOOD, which is the LIFE of the flesh, (see Lev 17:11), and redeem man from sin. this is the "OBJECTIVE" of God, his plan, and his will. and “BEING” in that flesh he carried out his plan of salvation for Man. again his "OWN" arm brought salvation unto him, (see Isaiah 63:5). so that answers the “if Christ is God, how come he could do nothing of himself”. another excuse vanquish and laid to the side. the Lord Jesus is the SHARED Spirit IN FLESH AND BONE, THAT IS A NUMERICIAL DIFFERENCE, meaning in concrete form. this is what the definition G243 allos express. when one has a DIFFERENCE, the term is called DIFFERENTIATION. look it up. question, since our Lord Jesus is the NUMERICIAL DIFFERENCE, as G243 express, which is a Equal Share, meaning two or more. so, what is the OPPOSITE of DIFFERENTIATION? since the process of our Lord being “ANOTHER”, so, what is the opposite process of DIFFERENTIATION, answer, "ASSIMILATION". listen to the definition of "ASSIMILATION" is to take in and incorporate as one's own, other words, (within), meaning one's own self, which is what the Lord Jesus is, his “OWN” arm. STOP, go back to the definition of "SUBJECT", G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso (hoop-ot-as'-so), “within” the power of. simply meaning, what was differentiated is now non-differentiated, excuse my English, I just want to make it plain. meaning, it is now assimilated as it was before the worlds, supportive scripture, John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was”. meaning, oneness in all things, especially in POWER, both the G1411 dunamis, and the G1849 exousia. supportive scripture, Colossians 2:9 "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily”.

So clearly, and plainly we see that an "arm of flesh", is (the G1411 dunamis, power, or the arm of the king) which is his armies, or fighting men, against Hezekiah king of Judah". and the (G1849 exousia power, or authority is in the king of Assyria himself). but look at the description given here, "arm of flesh". other words his (arm)-ies, or armies' men of flesh, is the king of Assyria POWER. Christ is the POWER and the wisdom of God in flesh. hence, Arm of flesh. just read Isaiah 53.

so read the bible, and get the correct answers.

101G.
 
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