The misuse and abuse of John 17:3 by Unitarians to promote Unitarianism.

I think it’s better to move on, @Studyman. You insinuated that I’m a wolf in sheep's clothing and now you suggest I’m “upset” with @Pancho Frijoles.

Can you give me the gospel of salvation in a condensed manner? And how many ways lead to Rome? How many lead to Christ Jesus?

Put your thinking cap on and don’t dance around in circles.

J.

It is difficult to have any kind of honest discussion with you as you won't answer my question, or even address most of my points or the Scriptures that lead to my conclusion. It seems you are simply here to promote your religion, not discuss Scriptures. Even now you say out of one side of your mouth, "I think it’s better to move on", and then with the other side of your mouth, "Can you give me the gospel of salvation in a condensed manner"

So which is it?

Are you moving on? Or asking of me to define the Gospel of Christ for you?
 
I think it’s better to move on, @Studyman. You insinuated that I’m a wolf in sheep's clothing and now you suggest I’m “upset” with @Pancho Frijoles.
I don’t think you are upset with me, Johann, and that’s why I would like to hold a serious, formal debate with you in a spirit of fraternal love.

Can you give me the gospel of salvation in a condensed manner? And how many ways lead to Rome? How many lead to Christ Jesus?
If you allow me to share my convictions, I can give you the gospel of salvation in a condensed manner.
Repent and rejoice: the Kingdom of God has come. Fear God, who is The Creator, and give Him glory.

Direct support: Mark 1:14,15 and Rev 14:6:7
 
Shammai? Hillel? What's their claim to fame?

How would you categorize your "club"? Don't just tell me you follow the Bible. Everyone says that. Briefly, how would you describe your beliefs?
Johann used them in a rebuke directed towards me. You can Google them to learn about them as they are not mentioned in Scripture.

In this world God placed me in there exists thousands of religious sects and businesses, many of which call the Jesus of the Bible their Lord. Most all of them are founded on the teaching or philosophies of men like Augustine, or the Council of Nicea, or later on religious philosophers like Calvin, Huss, Wesley, Russell, Smith, Miller etc. The list goes on and on. These religious franchises in some cases, and sects all compete with each other for contributing members to grow their religious club or business. Some of these businesses have become enormously huge corporations creating massive wealth prophesying and doing great works “In Christs Name”. Jesus talks about them in Matthew 6 and 7 and again in Revelation 18.

I have escaped these religious sects, by the Grace of God and their differing and ever changing doctrines and Philosophies and am striving to enter the Path Jesus and the Faithful members of the Church of God, AKA the Body of Christ walked in. Members like Abel, Abraham, Moses, Caleb, David, Zacharias, Simeon, Cornelius, Matthew Paul just at to name a few. In this club, God provides the teachers, His Son is the High Priest who provides Himself as my sin offering, and His Temple is in our mind. This is the condensed version as I am typing on my phone, but wanted to show you respect and common decency by answering your question.

It’s late and I’m taking my grandson deer hunting in the morning so I must get some sleep. I’ll talk with you later.

Have a good night.
 
I strongly disagree. Your claim is unsuppported biblically and logically.
Furthermore, your claim may lead to immoral, unethical conclusions you may not be aware of.
Disagree-strongly.

The deity of Christ Jesus strikes at the very heart of the gospel because the message of salvation hinges upon who He is and what He accomplished. If Jesus were merely a created being or a mere man, He could not fulfill the demands of God's perfect justice nor provide an infinite sacrifice for sin. Only the eternal Son of God, fully divine and fully human, could bridge the gap between sinful humanity and a holy God.

The Atonement Requires a Divine Savior: For the gospel to be effective, the atonement must provide infinite value, capable of covering the sins of all who believe. Hebrews 9:12-14 emphasizes that Christ offered Himself without blemish, through the eternal Spirit, securing eternal redemption. A created being's death could not suffice to pay the penalty for sin on such a scale; only God in the flesh could provide such a sacrifice.

Revealing God to Humanity: The gospel proclaims reconciliation with God, and Jesus’ deity is essential to that message. John 1:18 declares that the only begotten Son, who is God Himself, has made the Father known. Without His divine nature, Christ could not fully reveal the character, will, and heart of God to humanity.

Christ as Mediator: A mediator must equally represent both parties. Jesus, as fully God and fully man, uniquely fulfills this role (1 Timothy 2:5). His deity enables Him to represent God perfectly, while His humanity allows Him to identify with and represent humankind.

Victory Over Death: The resurrection is central to the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:17), and it demonstrates Jesus' power over sin and death, proving His divine nature (Romans 1:4). If Christ were not God, He could not conquer death or grant eternal life to believers (John 11:25).

Faith Hinges on His Divine Identity: The gospel calls for faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior (Romans 10:9-10). If He is not God, then faith in Him would be misplaced. Jesus Himself affirmed His divine identity in passages like John 8:58, and the apostles consistently preached His deity as integral to the gospel.

In sum, the gospel is not merely a message about moral improvement or spiritual insight; it is the proclamation of God stepping into history in the person of Jesus Christ to redeem sinners. To deny His deity is to undermine the gospel's foundation and its saving power.

Passages where Jesus is unquestionably called God


Heb 1:8 Father addresses son as God

Jn 1:1 The word was God

Phil 2:6-8 Jesus existed in the form of God

Jn 20:28 'My Lord and My God

Isa 7:14 "A Child Will Be Born And His Name Is Called": "Emanuel: God with us"

Isa 9:6 "A Child Will Be Born And His Name Is Called": "Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace"

B. Passages that speak of Christ's deity but because of the wording in the Greek, it can be argued that the Father is being addressed as God, not Jesus.

Titus 2:13-14 "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus; who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds."

1 Timothy 1:16,17 "And yet for this reason I found mercy, in order that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience, as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen."

1 Timothy 6:14-16 "that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which He will bring about at the proper time-He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords; who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen."

2 Peter 1:1 "Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ. Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord"

THERE IS ONLY ONE PATH TO SALVATION
ACCORDING TO JESUS...Not Muhammad, or any "messenger"
He said the way to life was difficult and narrow, found by few - Mt 7:13-14
He taught that unless we believe in Him, we will die in our sins - Jn 8:24
He claimed to be the only way to the Father - Jn 14:6
-- There is only one path to salvation, and that is through Jesus!
ACCORDING TO HIS APOSTLES...
Peter said salvation is found only in Jesus' name - Ac 4:12
John said whoever denies the Son does not have the Father - 1Jn 2:23
Paul said those who do not obey the gospel of Jesus Christ will experience vengeance when Jesus comes again - 2Th 1:7-8
-- There is only one path to salvation, and that is through Jesus!
[Both Jesus and His apostles were very clear: the path to salvation must go through Jesus Christ! If not, consider for a moment the implication of what many people believe...]

THERE ARE MANY PATHS TO SALVATION
IF SO, CONSIDER WHO LIED...
Jesus lied, when He said no man comes to the Father but through Him - Jn 14:6
His apostles lied, when they taught salvation comes only through Jesus - Ac 4:12
-- If there are many paths to salvation, then Jesus and His apostles were liars!
IF SO, CONSIDER WHO SUFFERED AND DIED IN VAIN...
Jesus' suffering and death on the cross was not necessary
Why die for our sins, if there are other ways to salvation?
Why suffer an excruciating death on the cross, if it was not necessary?
His apostles' suffering and deaths were not necessary
Why did apostles like Paul put up with his hardships? - cf. 2Co 11:23-29
Why did the apostles endure martyrdom if it was not necessary?
Why not simply live out their lives as fishermen, tentmakers, etc.?
-- If there are many paths to salvation, then Jesus and His apostles died in vain!
[If we profess to be Christians, then we must believe that there is only one path to salvation, and that is through Jesus! Let's review the gospel plan of salvation, the path to salvation...]

THE PATH TO SALVATION
WE MUST HEAR THE GOOD NEWS...
For faith comes by hearing the Word of God - Ro 10:17
For this reason Jesus sent His apostles and preachers - Ac 10:42-43
-- Have you heard the gospel of Jesus Christ?
WE MUST BELIEVE (TRUST) IN JESUS...
As the Son of God whom the Father sent because He loved us - Jn 3:16
As the propitiation (atoning sacrifice) offered by God for sins - 1Jn 4:9-10
Whose blood provides redemption, the forgiveness of sins - Ep 1:7
-- Do you trust in Jesus and His sacrificial death for your salvation?
WE MUST REPENT OF OUR SINS...
For Jesus is coming to judge the world - Ac 17:30-31
For we must turn from darkness to light, from the power of Satan to God - Ac 26:18
Otherwise, we will perish! - Lk 13:3
-- Have you made the decision to turn from your sins to serve the living God?
WE MUST CONFESS JESUS AS OUR LORD...
If we want Jesus to confess us before His Father in heaven - Mt 10:32-33
If we want to receive the salvation that Jesus offers - Ro 10:9-10
-- Have you acknowledged that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God?
WE MUST BE BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST...
To be saved - Mk 16:15-16
To receive the remission of sins and gift of the Holy Spirit - Ac 2:38
To be raised with Christ from death to newness of life - Ro 6:3-7
-- Have you been baptized into Christ for the remission of your sins?
WE MUST REMAIN FAITHFUL TO JESUS...
To learn from Him as His disciples - Mt 28:19-20
To imitate Him as our Mentor - Lk 6:40
To remain faithful to Him even to the point of death - Re 2:10
-- Have you made Jesus your Teacher and Mentor, as well as your Savior?
CONCLUSION
Believing there are many paths to salvation is...
A comforting doctrine to hold
Viewed by many as tolerant and loving

But if one really believes in Jesus, they must abide in His teaching (cf. Jn 8:30-32)...
That few will be saved
That Jesus is the only way to the Father
That we must obey His gospel plan of salvation
That we must follow Him as our Teacher and Mentor the rest of our life

The Deity of Jesus and Him crucified [literally] and Him resurrected [literally] @Pancho Frijoles

J.
 
If you allow me to share my convictions, I can give you the gospel of salvation in a condensed manner.
Repent and rejoice: the Kingdom of God has come. Fear God, who is The Creator, and give Him glory.

Direct support: Mark 1:14,15 and Rev 14:6:7
"THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST"--not via successive "messengers"

In Mk 16:15-16, Jesus makes reference to "the gospel"...
Commanding His disciples to preach it to every creature
Offering salvation to all who believe and are baptized

In Ro 1:16-17, Paul makes reference to "the gospel"...
How he was not ashamed of it
How it is the power of God unto salvation for all who believe

What is this "gospel"...?
That Jesus wanted everyone to hear?
That is God's power to save mankind?
The word "gospel" (Gr., euaggelion) means "good news"...
It pertains to the good news of salvation through Christ
It involves the proclamation of God's grace offered through Jesus
It requires a response involving obedience - cf. 1Pe 4:17; 2 Th 1:7-8
A simple way to summarize the content of the "gospel" is that it contains...
Facts to believe
Commands to obey
Promises to receive


FACTS TO BELIEVE
CHRIST WAS CRUCIFIED FOR OUR SINS...
Fundamental to the gospel Paul preached - 1Co 15:1-3
As foretold by the Old Testament scriptures - Isa 53:4-6

Why did Jesus die for our sins?
Because we are all sinners! - Ro 3:23
Because the wages of sin is death! - Ro 6:23
-- In love God offers His Son as a "propitiation" (sacrifice) for our sins! - 1Jn 4:9-10

CHRIST WAS RAISED FROM THE DEAD...
Also fundamental to the gospel Paul preached - 1Co 15:4
As proclaimed by Peter in the first gospel sermon - Ac 2:22-32
As seen by many eyewitnesses - 1Co 15:5-8
-- Raising Jesus verifies the justification offered on the cross! - Ro 4:25

CHRIST IS EXALTED AS KING AND SAVIOR...
He is now both Lord and Christ - Ac 2:33-36
He is head over all things - Ep 1:20-23
All authorities and powers are now subject to Him - 1Pe 3:22
-- God has made Jesus ruler over the kings of the earth! - Re 1:5

CHRIST IS COMING AGAIN...
As promised when He ascended to heaven - Ac 1:9-11
Coming to offer both rest and tribulation - 2Th 1:7-10
Rest to those who responded to the call of the gospel - 2 Th 2:13-14
Tribulation to those who obeyed not the gospel - 2Th 1:8-9
-- His coming will cause many to mourn, while others rejoice - Re 1:7; 22:20
[Whether we are prepared for His coming depends upon our obedience to the gospel (cf. 2Th 1:8). This implies that "The Gospel Of Christ" also contains...]

COMMANDS TO OBEY
BELIEVE THE GOSPEL CONCERNING JESUS CHRIST...

We must believe the gospel, or we are lost! - Mk 16:16
The gospel is God's power for salvation to those who believe - Ro 1:16
E.g., we must believe that God raised Him from the dead - Ro 10:9-10
-- For those willing to believe, eternal life can be theirs! - Jn 3:16; 20:30-31

CONFESS YOUR FAITH IN JESUS...
Confessing with our mouth the Lord Jesus leads to salvation - Ro 10:9-10
The Ethiopian eunuch provides an example of such a confession - Ac 8:37
-- Jesus will confess us before God if we confess Him before others! - Mt 10:32-33

REPENT OF YOUR SINS...
Jesus wanted repentance preached in His name to all nations - Lk 24:46-47
Peter therefore preached the need to repent to the Jews - Ac 2:37-38; 3:19
Paul likewise preached the need to repent to the Gentiles - Ac 17:30-31
-- Unless we repent, we will perish in our sins! - Lk 13:3

BE BAPTIZED FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS...
Jesus expected people to be baptized in response to His gospel - Mk 16:15-16
Peter proclaimed baptism for the remission of sins to those who believed - Ac 2:37-38
Paul related the place baptism had in his salvation from sin - Ac 22:16
-- When we submit to baptism, God does His work in saving us! - Co 2:11-13

BE FAITHFUL UNTO DEATH...
Faithfulness is necessary if we desire to receive the crown of life - Re 2:10
There is a real danger in losing our faith - He 3:12-14
-- Rest assured, our faithful labors will not be in vain! - 1Co 15:58
[When one obeys the commands of the gospel, they receive wonderful blessings. These blessings are offered in the gospel as...]

PROMISES TO RECEIVE
THE REMISSION OF SINS...

We are promised the remission of sins! - Ac 2:38
Our sins are "blotted out", "washed away" - Ac 3:19; 22:16
Made possible by the precious blood of Christ - Ep 1:7
-- An ongoing blessing whenever we confess our sins! - 1Jn 1:9

THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT...
Spoken of by Christ during His ministry - Jn 7:37-39
Promised to those who repent and are baptized - Ac 2:38-39; 5:32
One aspect of this gift relates to His indwelling
The Spirit indwells the Christ - 1Co 6:19; Ro 8:9-11
The Spirit enables us to mortify the flesh - Ro 8:12-13
The Spirit is God's instrumental agent to strengthen the Christ - Ep 3:16
The Spirit can produce wonderful fruit in our life - Ga 5:22-23
-- Because we are His children, God has given us this wonderful Gift! - Ga 4:6

THE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE...
In the sense of our eternal reward
Received at the end of a life bearing the fruit of holiness - Ro 6:22-23
Received in the age to come - Mk 10:29-30
Received at the time of judgment - Mt 25:46
In the sense of our abundant life now
Offered by Jesus - Jn 10:10
A quality of life made possible by our relationship with God - Jn 17:2-3
A life in Christ enjoyed even now - 1Jn 5:11-13
-- Thus godly living has promise both in this life, and that which is come! - 1Ti 4:8

CONCLUSION
Can we understand why "The Gospel Of Christ" is "good news"...?
The "facts to believe" contains the message of God's love and grace
The "commands to obey" are not difficult works, done to earn salvation, but simple acts of faith whereby we receive God's grace - cf. 1Jn 5:3
The "promises to receive" help us deal with the real problem of sin in our lives
What have you done with "The Gospel of Christ"...?
You have now heard it, if not before
You know as much as those who heard it on the day of Pentecost, if not even more
Together with the apostle Peter, we implore you...

"...Be saved from this perverse generation." (Ac 2:40)

Do you know Him @Pancho Frijoles?

J.
 
It is difficult to have any kind of honest discussion with you as you won't answer my question, or even address most of my points or the Scriptures that lead to my conclusion. It seems you are simply here to promote your religion, not discuss Scriptures. Even now you say out of one side of your mouth, "I think it’s better to move on", and then with the other side of your mouth, "Can you give me the gospel of salvation in a condensed manner"

So which is it?

Are you moving on? Or asking of me to define the Gospel of Christ for you?
Move on @Studyman.

J.
 
I strongly disagree. Your claim is unsuppported biblically and logically.
Furthermore, your claim may lead to immoral, unethical conclusions you may not be aware of.

I invite you to debate respectfully with me in a separate thread, preferably with a moderator.
The thesis I will defend is that doctrine of the deity of Jesus is NOT a salvific issue because it is impossible to separate salvation from forgiveness and life transformation, and believing in the deity of Jesus has never been a requirement from God to extend his mercy or change a life.

Please let me know if you are willing to hold this debate.
Here are the reasons I won't debate you-and this on the core doctrines as recorded in Scripture.

Try typing "the resurrection of Jesus" in the search string--


the Baha'i views on the bodily resurrection and crucifixion of Jesus differ significantly from mainstream Christian teachings. These differences stem from the Baha'i interpretation of biblical events in a symbolic or spiritual manner rather than adhering to the literal understanding held by most Christian traditions.

Baha'i Views on the Crucifixion
Acknowledgment of the Crucifixion: The Baha'i faith recognizes that Jesus was crucified, but the event is often understood more symbolically.

Baha'is emphasize the spiritual significance of the crucifixion rather than viewing it as a literal atonement for humanity's sins.

No Substitutionary Atonement: Unlike Christian theology, particularly in Protestantism, which holds that Jesus' death served as a substitutionary atonement for sin, Baha'is do not view His crucifixion as having that salvific role. Instead, they see it as a demonstration of self-sacrifice and the triumph of the spirit over material persecution.

Baha'i Views on the Resurrection

Non-Literal Interpretation: The Baha'i faith generally interprets the resurrection of Jesus symbolically or spiritually, not as a physical, bodily resurrection.

They view the accounts of the resurrection as metaphorical, representing the continued influence and teachings of Jesus in the lives of His disciples rather than His literal rising from the dead.


Focus on Spiritual Renewal: The Baha'i writings suggest that the resurrection signifies the spiritual awakening and empowerment of Jesus' followers after His death. It symbolizes the perpetuation of His message rather than a historical event involving the reanimation of His physical body.

Christian Views on the Crucifixion and Resurrection
Crucifixion as Atonement: Christianity teaches that Jesus' crucifixion was a historical event and central to salvation. It is seen as the ultimate sacrifice to atone for humanity's sins, fulfilling the requirements of God's justice while demonstrating His love (Romans 5:8, 1 Peter 3:18).

Bodily Resurrection: Christians affirm the bodily resurrection of Jesus as a foundational doctrine of the faith (1 Corinthians 15:14-17). The resurrection is viewed as proof of Jesus' divinity, the defeat of sin and death, and the assurance of eternal life for believers (Romans 6:9-10, John 11:25-26).

Key Differences
Nature of the Events: Christians hold to the literal, physical crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus, while Baha'is emphasize their spiritual or symbolic meanings.

Theological Implications: For Christians, the crucifixion and resurrection are central to salvation, directly addressing sin and death. For Baha'is, the focus is more on the spiritual principles of Jesus' life and teachings rather than on the salvific efficacy of these events.

View of Jesus: Christians believe Jesus is fully divine and the unique Son of God. The Baha'i faith regards Him as one of many manifestations of God, which also influences their interpretation of these events.

In summary, the Baha'i interpretation differs fundamentally from orthodox Christian doctrine, which treats the crucifixion and resurrection as literal, historical, and indispensable to the gospel message. These divergent views reflect broader theological differences between the two faiths.
******************************************************************************************************************************

QUESTION: WHAT IS the meaning of Christ’s resurrection after three days?

2Answer: The resurrection of the Manifestations of God is not of the body. All that pertains to Them—all Their states and conditions, all that They do, found, teach, interpret, illustrate, and ordain—is of a mystical and spiritual character and does not belong to the realm of materiality.

3Such is the case of Christ’s coming from heaven. It has been explicitly stated in numerous passages of the Gospel that the Son of man came down from heaven, or is in heaven, or will go up to heaven. Thus in John 6:38 it is said: “For I came down from heaven”, and in John 6:42 it is recorded: “And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?”, and in John 3:13 it is stated: “And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.”

4Consider how it is said that the Son of man is in heaven, even though at that time Christ was dwelling upon the earth. Consider likewise that it explicitly says that Christ came from heaven, although He came from the womb of Mary and His body was born of her. It is therefore clear that the assertion that the Son of man came down from heaven has a mystical rather than a literal meaning, and is a spiritual rather than a material event. The meaning is that though in appearance Christ was born of the womb of Mary, yet in reality He came from heaven, the seat of the Sun of Truth that shines in the divine realm of the supernal Kingdom. And since it is established that Christ came from the spiritual heaven of the divine Kingdom, His disappearance into the earth for three days must also have a mystical rather than a literal meaning. In the same manner, His resurrection from the bosom of the earth is a mystical matter and expresses a spiritual rather than a material condition. And His ascension to heaven, likewise, is spiritual and not material in nature.

5Aside from this, it has been established by science that the material heaven is a limitless space, void and empty, wherein countless stars and planets move.

6We explain, therefore, the meaning of Christ’s resurrection in the following way: After the martyrdom of Christ, the Apostles were perplexed and dismayed. The reality of Christ, which consists in His teachings, His bounties, His perfections, and His spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after His martyrdom, and had no outward appearance or manifestation—indeed, it was as though it were entirely lost. For those who truly believed were few in number, and even those few were perplexed and dismayed. The Cause of Christ was thus as a lifeless body. After three days the Apostles became firm and steadfast, arose to aid the Cause of Christ, resolved to promote the divine teachings and practise their Lord’s admonitions, and endeavoured to serve Him. Then did the reality of Christ become resplendent, His grace shine forth, His religion find new life, and His teachings and admonitions become manifest and visible. In other words, the Cause of Christ, which was like unto a lifeless body, was quickened to life and surrounded by the grace of the Holy Spirit.

7Such is the meaning of the resurrection of Christ, and this was a true resurrection. But as the clergy did not grasp the meaning of the Gospels and did not comprehend this mystery, it was claimed that religion was opposed to science and science was incompatible with religion, for among other things the ascension of Christ in a physical body to the material heavens is contrary to the mathematical sciences. But when the truth of this matter is clarified and this symbol is explained, it is in no way contradicted by science but rather affirmed by both science and reason.

The above is incorrect.
Jesus did not merely suffer martyrdom; He voluntarily laid down His life in obedience to the Father’s will and out of love for humanity. This truth is clearly taught in Scripture:

Jesus' Voluntary Sacrifice: In John 10:17-18, Jesus states, "The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life-only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father." This declaration highlights that His death was not imposed upon Him but was an act of divine sovereignty and love.

Fulfillment of Prophecy: Isaiah 53:7 describes the willing nature of the Messiah's sacrifice, saying, "He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth." This points to Jesus’ willingness to endure suffering and death for the sake of humanity.

His Purpose in Coming: Jesus made it clear that His mission was to give His life as a ransom for many. In Mark 10:45, He says, "For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."

Love as the Motive: Jesus' voluntary sacrifice was motivated by love for His people. John 15:13 affirms this, saying, "Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends."

His Death Was a Sovereign Act: Even when Pilate questioned Jesus about His authority, Jesus replied, "You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above" (John 19:11). This underscores that His death was under God's sovereign control, not merely the result of human actions.

Jesus' death was not simply the tragic end of a good man but the intentional, redemptive act of the Son of God. He laid down His life willingly, fulfilling God’s eternal plan of salvation and demonstrating the depth of His love for humanity.

Thanks.

J.
 
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Haven’t I repeated several times that millions of Trinitatians DO NOT pray to Jesus?
If you need this to be repeated more times, I’ll do it.
Millions of Trinitarians do NOT pray to Jesus and Jesus did not demand such thing as sign of true discipleship.
If you pray to Jesus, good… and if you pray to Our Father, great! you are following the example of the Jesus you love.

You do not know what millions of trinitarians do

and this is scripture

John 5:23 (KJV 1900) — 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.


There is one God and one mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus”, (1 Tim 2:15)
Do you know this text, TomL?
Yes I do

Christ is a man as well as God

Do you know this

John 20:28–29 (KJV 1900) — 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Unitarians are not believers





So… accordomg to Scripture, asking Christ Jesus to act as your intercessor before God has nothing to do with calling Jesus a Man… thing that, by the way, I haven’t done.
You can ask Jesus to intercede to God, and be your Mediator, precisely because He is not God.
Sorry that is not Christianity

Never was never will be


The father is not the son and the son is not the Father nevertheless they both are deity
 
You do not know what millions of trinitarians do

and this is scripture

John 5:23 (KJV 1900) — 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.



Yes I do

Christ is a man as well as God

Do you know this

John 20:28–29 (KJV 1900) — 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Unitarians are not believers






Sorry that is not Christianity

Never was never will be


The father is not the son and the son is not the Father nevertheless they both are deity
Yep-Ditto.

J.
 
You do not know what millions of trinitarians do

and this is scripture

John 5:23 (KJV 1900) — 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.



Yes I do

Christ is a man as well as God

Do you know this

John 20:28–29 (KJV 1900) — 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Unitarians are not believers






Sorry that is not Christianity

Never was never will be


The father is not the son and the son is not the Father nevertheless they both are deity
You are engaging with an opponent who does not interpret the Bible literally but instead spiritualizes its content, interpreting much of it symbolically or allegorically. @TomL


The Bible teaches that Jesus can serve as our Mediator precisely because He is God, as well as fully human. His unique identity as both fully divine and fully human enables Him to perfectly bridge the gap between God and humanity. Here’s how Scripture supports this:

Jesus as Mediator: 1 Timothy 2:5 states, "For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus." This verse highlights Jesus' humanity, but His role as Mediator is inseparable from His divine identity. Only someone who is both God and man could adequately represent both parties.

Jesus Intercedes Because He Is Divine: Romans 8:34 says, "Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us." Jesus' intercession is effective because of His divine authority and His victory over sin and death through His resurrection. If He were not God, His intercession would lack the power and authority necessary to be effective.

Unity with the Father: Jesus declared in John 10:30, "I and the Father are one." His unity with the Father shows that His intercession is not an act of a separate being pleading with God but the work of God Himself, bringing humanity into reconciliation with Him.

Jesus as High Priest: Hebrews 7:24-25 explains, "But because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them." His eternal divine nature ensures that He can intercede for us continually and effectively.

Jesus as the Exact Representation of God: Hebrews 1:3 states, "The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word." Jesus' ability to mediate and intercede is rooted in the fact that He is fully God, sharing the divine nature and authority.

"THE EPISTLE TO THE HEBREWS"
Our Glorious High Priest (8:1-6)

With the beginning of chapter eight, we come to the close of the first major section of "The Epistle To The Hebrews"...
In which the key thought is "The Superiority of Christ"
In which Jesus is shown to be superior to:
To the prophets - He 1:1-3

To angels - He 1:4-2:18
To Moses - He 3:1-5

To Aaron and his Levitical priesthood - He 5:1-10; 7:1-28--and superior to Muhammad and all other successive messengers

The next major section really begins in earnest with verse 7...
In which the key thought will be "The Superiority of the New Covenant"
In which this covenant is shown to be based upon:

Better promises - He 8:7-13
A better sanctuary - He 9:1-28
A better sacrifice - He 10:1-18
In He 8:1-6, we find a transition...
In which the main point of the first section is summarized
In which the main points of the next section are introduced
-- Indeed, these six verses truly summarize what the author seeks to establish in the first ten chapters of this epistle!
It can all be summarized in these words: "We have such a High Priest..."
In Jesus, we have a High Priest
Not just any High Priest, but "such" a High Priest; i.e., a glorious High Priest!
[In what ways is Jesus "Our Glorious High Priest"? First, He is...]

SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD (1)
THE PHRASE "THE MAJESTY IN THE HEAVENS"...
A Jewish circumlocution meaning "God" (Believers' Study Bible)
I.e., a roundabout way of referring to God - cf. He 1:3


MANY PASSAGES REFER TO JESUS AT GOD'S RIGHT HAND...
David prophesied that the Messiah would sit at God's right hand - Ps 110:1
Jesus said that He would sit at the right hand of God - Mk 14:60-62
When He ascended to heaven, He then sat down at God's right hand - Mk 16:19; He 12:2
At God's right hand, He poured forth the Holy Spirit - Ac 2:33
Peter preached Jesus as being exalted to be at God's right hand as our Prince and Savior - Ac 5:30-31
Paul taught that Jesus is at God's right hand, interceding for us - Ro 8:34
He is at God's right hand, "waiting till His enemies are made His footstool" - He 10:12-13
Yet while He sits and waits, He rules! - Ps 110:1-2,5; cf. 1Co 15:24-26
For at God's right hand, He is above all other authority - Ep 1:20-22; 1Pe 3:22
-- In one place, we read of Jesus "standing at the right hand of God" (Ac 7:55-56); was Jesus showing His respect for Stephen, the first Christian martyr?
[Exalted to such a place of honor and authority, we truly have a "glorious" High Priest, one who is "the ruler over the kings of the earth" (Re 1:5)! As we look at the next verse in our text, we see that He is also...]

A MINISTER OF THE TRUE TABERNACLE (2-5)
ERECTED BY GOD, NOT MAN...

We are now introduced to a contrast between two "tabernacles"
There had been the earthly sanctuary or tabernacle
As ordained under the first covenant (i.e., the Law) - cf. He 9:1ff
It was built by man
But now we read of one "which the Lord erected"; i.e., a heavenly tabernacle
The heavenly tabernacle is none other than heaven itself! - cf. He 9:11-12; 23-24

IN WHICH HE OFFERS "SERVICE"...
As a High Priest, it is necessary for Him to have something to offer - He 8:3
Every high priest is appointed for this purpose - He 5:1
What Jesus has to offer is not mention here, but will be later - cf. He 9:12
This service He renders in heaven, not on the earth - He 8:4
If He were on earth, He couldn't be a priest!
For the Law required priests from the tribe of Levi, and Jesus was from Judah
As for priests on the earth...
They serve only the copy and shadow of the heavenly things - He 8:5
For Moses had been told by God to build the earthly tabernacle according to pattern shown to him on the mountain - cf. Exo 25:40
[As "Our Glorious High Priest", then, Jesus renders service in the true tabernacle, which is heaven itself. This thought will be expanded upon in chapters nine and ten. But consider also how He is...]

THE MEDIATOR OF A BETTER COVENANT (6)
HE HAS OBTAINED A MORE EXCELLENT MINISTRY...

In contrast with the ministry of the Levitical priests
Their ministry was simply a shadow and copy of His ministry - cf. Col 2:16-17

AS MEDIATOR OF A BETTER COVENANT...
The word "mediator"...
The Greek is "mesites" {mes-ee'-tace}

It means "one who intervenes between two, either in order to make or restore peace and friendship, or form a compact, or for ratifying a covenant"

By His death on the cross, Jesus has become the Mediator of the new covenant - cf. He 9:15; 12:24
This new covenant is here referred to as "a better covenant"
Better than what? Better than the "first covenant" - cf. He 8:7
I.e., what had been established through Moses

ESTABLISHED ON BETTER PROMISES...
What makes the new covenant better than the old are its promises
Some of those promises are explained later - cf. He 8:10-12
But Peter describes the promises we receive as "exceedingly great and precious promises" - cf. 2Pe 1:3-4

CONCLUSION
With this transition passage, then, we are introduced to things that will be expounded upon as we proceed through the epistle...
The better covenant we have in Christ, based upon its better promises
The better ministry Christ renders as our High Priest in heaven, seated at God's right hand
When such things are properly understood, we can see how Jesus is truly "Our Glorious High Priest"!
One who stands ready to minister in our behalf
He is "able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him" - He 7:25
He is "able to aid those who are tempted" - He 2:18
Have you accepted Jesus as your High Priest by obeying His gospel? He is truly...

"...the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him." (He 5:9)
For those who have not obeyed His gospel, we find this awesome warning:
"...and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those WHO DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power..." (2Th 1:7-9)

My apologies @TomL but it was for his benefit.

J.
 
Hi, Johann

I have quoted Scripture EXTENSIVELY in several threads, often outnumbering the verses quoted by those who debate with me.
If You kindy accept my invitation to debate on the need tobelieve that Jesus is God in order to be saved, be prepared for an avalanche of quotes. :)
Jesus as God
The doctrine of Jesus as God is fundamental to salvation and an essential truth about the character of God. Below is a list of references that confirm the deity of Jesus and offer proof that he has always been and will always be God. Those who diminish, doubt, or deny the divinity of Jesus do so at the destruction of the scriptures.

“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. “ – Heb 13:8

Matthew 1:23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Matthew 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

Matthew 9:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.

Matthew 14:26-33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Matthew 16:16-17 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Matthew 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Matthew 25:17-46 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Luke 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. ~ See prophecies about God being the only saviour

Luke 19:43-44 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

Luke 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

John 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Colossians 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Colossians 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell;

Colossians 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; Col 2:3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

1Timothy 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Hebrews 1:3-4 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

Revelation 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

Revelation 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Revelation 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

J.
 
@Pancho Frijoles

5 Things Christ’s Resurrection Accomplished

Justin Johnson
The bodily resurrection of Christ is a fundamental of Christianity. This means it defines the Christian faith. No one can be a Christian without it (1 Cor 15:14).

This may sound severe, but saying anything less neglects what the resurrection of Christ accomplished.
Why does Christianity depend on the resurrection of Christ? What does it mean for us?

Here are five accomplishments:

1. To Declare Himself the Son of God

Jesus claimed the ability to raise his own self from the dead (John 2:19). This is the power of God! He told Israel the sign that proved he was the Son of God would be his resurrection (Matt 12:39-40 – Jonah came out of the whale alive!).

Paul also testifies to this resurrection declaration in Romans 1:4. If he did not resurrect, then he was a liar, not the promised Christ, and not God manifest in the flesh.

2. Payment for Sins

You may be thinking that it was through his death and shed blood that he provided the atonement for sins, and you would be right. However, if he did not resurrect, his death would not mean anything (1 Cor 15:17).

The resurrection of Christ not only proved he was the eternal God, the giver of all life, but that his work to pay for sins through his death was sufficient and complete. Without resurrection his death would have been a good effort, but would be like writing a check without money in the bank. It bounces.

His resurrection meant the check was cashed! The work was finished!

The surgery is not over until the doctor walks out of the surgery room. The cooking is not done until the turkey comes out of the oven. Your sins were not paid in full until Christ rose from the dead.

3. Salvation Offered

Jesus Christ is the Saviour. If the Saviour is still dead, then how would you know why he died, or that he died willingly, or that he died for you? Scripture describes Jesus as a mediator (1 Tim 2:5), but if the mediator is dead then future reconciliation is impossible.

Christ revealed the mystery of the gospel after his resurrection.

Christ could only offer free salvation by grace (his work for you) through faith if he had already finished the work, and he was not dead. If Christ is still dead, then our faith is dead, and so is any hope of salvation.

4. Righteousness Imputed

The resurrection of Christ proves his own righteousness. After dying for the sins of the world, if he were not perfectly righteous in so doing, he would not deserve to live again.

It is only by his resurrection that his righteousness can be imputed to us. The gospel does not stop with our sins being put on Christ, it must finish with his righteousness being imputed to us (2 Cor 5:21). Without Christ’s resurrection in righteousness, we could never be justified by faith (Romans 4:22-25).

5. Give Power of Eternal Life

Christ’s bodily resurrection exhibited the power to raise humanity from the dead.
The promise of eternal life would be nonsense if the Saviour ended his life with death never to live again. There is no life found in a dead Saviour.

The Lord Jesus Christ defeated death through his resurrection, alive forevermore, to guarantee life eternal. It is the power of his resurrection that he offers to us through the gospel. Without the bodily resurrection of Christ, we could not live the Christian life. There would be no life in Christ.

Life and immortality was only brought to light at the appearing of Christ after his resurrection (2 Tim 1:10). Without Christ’s resurrection we are all dead.

Conclusion

All of these things depend on the bodily resurrection of Christ. Without these things being accomplished we do not have any reason to worship Christ, preach Christ for salvation, declare righteousness in Christ or eternal life through Christ.

In summary, we would not be Christians unless Christ rose from the dead. It is no coincidence that most of these reasons are found in the epistles where the mystery of Christ is revealed.

It was Paul who said:

“Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:” – 2 Tim 2:8

Christianity is not a religion filled with religious followers of a religious figure. The Christian faith rests on the resurrection. It is by that gospel of the resurrected Christ that we are saved.
The Jesus "of the Bible" tells me this.

John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee "the only true God", and Jesus Christ, "whom thou hast sent".

I believe that the "Way" Jesus lived and taught to others, is the "only way" to know God. That only the "Doers" of His Sayings, not just the hearers, will endure to the end of this life.

Rom. 2: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well (GOOD) doing "seek for" glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Jesus is my Savior, my High Priest and my Lord. Your judgment regarding those who don't adopt your specific religious philosophies mean little to me.
"THE WAY OF CHRIST"

The Way To God

The Way of Christ is first and foremost the way to God...
Jesus claimed to be the only way to God - Jn 14:6
He is the way for Jew and Gentile to have access to God - Ep 2:18
To appreciate why this true, we must understand the gospel of Christ...
The good news of what God has done through Jesus Christ
What Paul calls "the gospel of the grace of God" - Ac 20:24
[Grace is defined as goodwill, lovingkindness, unmerited favor. As we examine the grace of God in Christ Jesus, consider first...]

THE NEED FOR GRACE
ALL ARE SINNERS...
All sin and fall short of the glory of God - Ro 3:23
Even one sin condemns - Jm 2:10
Even good men need saving - Ac 10:1-2; 11:14
-- Do not think that our good works can save us!

CONSEQUENCES OF SIN...
The wages of sin is death - Ro 6:23
Spiritual death involves separation from God - Isa 59:2
Left in such a state, eternal separation is the result - Re 21:8
-- The consequences of sin are grave, both now and hereafter!
[The point is clear, we all need the grace of God! But praise be to God, in Christ Jesus there is...]

THE PROVISION OF GRACE
BECAUSE OF HIS LOVE...
God sent His only begotten Son - Jn 3:16
God offered Jesus as the propitiation (atoning sacrifice) for our sins - 1Jn 4:9-10
-- God truly does love us!

BECAUSE OF HIS JUSTICE...
God offers Jesus as the sacrificial Lamb for our sins - Jn 1:29
God gave Jesus as the redemption for our sins - Ro 3:24-26
-- God has done what is necessary to forgive sinners while still being just
[Demonstrating that He is both a God of love and a God of justice, God has provided mankind the grace we need! But that grace is not unconditional (otherwise all would be saved), it must be received...]

THE RECEPTION OF GRACE
OBEYING THE GOSPEL...
To receive grace, we must obey the gospel
For Jesus is the author of salvation for those who obey Him - He 5:9
And consider the end of those who do not - 1Pe 4:17; 2Th 1:7-9
To obey the gospel, we must respond to God's grace
Believing in Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God - Jn 8:24; 20:30-31
Confessing one's faith in the Lord Jesus - Ro 10:9-10; Mt 10:32-33
Repenting of our sins - Lk 24:46-47; 3:19; 17:30-31
Being baptized for the remission of sins - Mk 16:15-16; Ac 2:38; 8:35-38; 22:16
Such obedience does not earn or merit our salvation!
Baptism involves the mercy and grace of God - Tit 3:4-7
Baptism unites one with Christ in His death - Ro 6:3-8
Baptism is God working on you - Col 2:11-13
Baptism is an appeal for a good conscience - 1Pe 3:21
Baptism is putting on the Lord Jesus Christ - Ga 3:27
-- By obeying the gospel of Christ, we receive the initial benefits of God's grace: the remission of sins, the gift of the Holy Spirit, and the promise of eternal life

LIVING THE GOSPEL...
To continue receiving grace, we must live the gospel
The gift of eternal life is received at the end - Ro 6:22-23; Mt 25:46
It is possible to become hardened by the deceitfulness of sin - He 3:12-14
We must remain faithful to receive the crown of life - Re 2:10; Jude 1:21
To live the gospel, we must grow in grace and knowledge
Grace is multiplied in the knowledge of God and Jesus - 2Pe 1:2-4
Growing in knowledge involves adding Christ-like qualities - 2Pe 1:5-11
Otherwise we might fall from our steadfastness - 2Pe 3:17-18
-- By following the way of Christ in faith and obedience, we continue to experience the grace of God both now and hereafter!

CONCLUSION
The way of Christ is the only way to God because...
God Himself sent His Son to deal with the problem of sin
Only by sacrificing His Son does God demonstrate both His love and His justice
Rejecting the gospel of Christ rejects both the Father and His Son - cf. 2Jn 1:9
The way of Christ does not stop with obeying the gospel of grace; it continues...
By living the gospel, that is, doing what Jesus taught His apostles - Mt 28:19-20
By growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ - 2Pe 3:18
By remaining faithful to Jesus even to the point of death - Re 2:10

J.
 
I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ that Paul taught. I wish you would take the warning of the Jesus "of the Bible" seriously and study outside the influence of this world's religious system, in Faith.
Neither am I.

"THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST"

In Mk 16:15-16, Jesus makes reference to "the gospel"...
Commanding His disciples to preach it to every creature
Offering salvation to all who believe and are baptized
In Ro 1:16-17, Paul makes reference to "the gospel"...
How he was not ashamed of it
How it is the power of God unto salvation for all who believe
What is this "gospel"...?
That Jesus wanted everyone to hear?
That is God's power to save mankind?
The word "gospel" (Gr., euaggelion) means "good news"...
It pertains to the good news of salvation through Christ
It involves the proclamation of God's grace offered through Jesus
It requires a response involving obedience - cf. 1Pe 4:17; 2 Th 1:7-8
A simple way to summarize the content of the "gospel" is that it contains...

Facts to believe
Commands to obey
Promises to receive
[Let's take a closer look at "The Gospel Of Christ", starting with...]

FACTS TO BELIEVE
CHRIST WAS CRUCIFIED FOR OUR SINS...
Fundamental to the gospel Paul preached - 1Co 15:1-3
As foretold by the Old Testament scriptures - Isa 53:4-6
Why did Jesus die for our sins?
Because we are all sinners! - Ro 3:23
Because the wages of sin is death! - Ro 6:23
-- In love God offers His Son as a "propitiation" (sacrifice) for our sins! - 1Jn 4:9-10

CHRIST WAS RAISED FROM THE DEAD...
Also fundamental to the gospel Paul preached - 1Co 15:4
As proclaimed by Peter in the first gospel sermon - Ac 2:22-32
As seen by many eyewitnesses - 1Co 15:5-8
-- Raising Jesus verifies the justification offered on the cross! - Ro 4:25

CHRIST IS EXALTED AS KING AND SAVIOR...
He is now both Lord and Christ - Ac 2:33-36
He is head over all things - Ep 1:20-23
All authorities and powers are now subject to Him - 1Pe 3:22
-- God has made Jesus ruler over the kings of the earth! - Re 1:5

CHRIST IS COMING AGAIN...
As promised when He ascended to heaven - Ac 1:9-11
Coming to offer both rest and tribulation - 2Th 1:7-10
Rest to those who responded to the call of the gospel - 2 Th 2:13-14
Tribulation to those who obeyed not the gospel - 2Th 1:8-9
-- His coming will cause many to mourn, while others rejoice - Re 1:7; 22:20
[Whether we are prepared for His coming depends upon our obedience to the gospel (cf. 2Th 1:8). This implies that "The Gospel Of Christ" also contains...]

COMMANDS TO OBEY
BELIEVE THE GOSPEL CONCERNING JESUS CHRIST...
We must believe the gospel, or we are lost! - Mk 16:16
The gospel is God's power for salvation to those who believe - Ro 1:16
E.g., we must believe that God raised Him from the dead - Ro 10:9-10
-- For those willing to believe, eternal life can be theirs! - Jn 3:16; 20:30-31

CONFESS YOUR FAITH IN JESUS...
Confessing with our mouth the Lord Jesus leads to salvation - Ro 10:9-10
The Ethiopian eunuch provides an example of such a confession - Ac 8:37
-- Jesus will confess us before God if we confess Him before others! - Mt 10:32-33

REPENT OF YOUR SINS...
Jesus wanted repentance preached in His name to all nations - Lk 24:46-47
Peter therefore preached the need to repent to the Jews - Ac 2:37-38; 3:19
Paul likewise preached the need to repent to the Gentiles - Ac 17:30-31
-- Unless we repent, we will perish in our sins! - Lk 13:3

BE BAPTIZED FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS...
Jesus expected people to be baptized in response to His gospel - Mk 16:15-16
Peter proclaimed baptism for the remission of sins to those who believed - Ac 2:37-38
Paul related the place baptism had in his salvation from sin - Ac 22:16
-- When we submit to baptism, God does His work in saving us! - Co 2:11-13

BE FAITHFUL UNTO DEATH...
Faithfulness is necessary if we desire to receive the crown of life - Re 2:10
There is a real danger in losing our faith - He 3:12-14
-- Rest assured, our faithful labors will not be in vain! - 1Co 15:58
[When one obeys the commands of the gospel, they receive wonderful blessings. These blessings are offered in the gospel as...]

PROMISES TO RECEIVE
THE REMISSION OF SINS...
We are promised the remission of sins! - Ac 2:38
Our sins are "blotted out", "washed away" - Ac 3:19; 22:16
Made possible by the precious blood of Christ - Ep 1:7
-- An ongoing blessing whenever we confess our sins! - 1Jn 1:9

THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT...
Spoken of by Christ during His ministry - Jn 7:37-39
Promised to those who repent and are baptized - Ac 2:38-39; 5:32
One aspect of this gift relates to His indwelling
The Spirit indwells the Christ - 1Co 6:19; Ro 8:9-11
The Spirit enables us to mortify the flesh - Ro 8:12-13
The Spirit is God's instrumental agent to strengthen the Christ - Ep 3:16
The Spirit can produce wonderful fruit in our life - Ga 5:22-23
-- Because we are His children, God has given us this wonderful Gift! - Ga 4:6

THE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE...
In the sense of our eternal reward
Received at the end of a life bearing the fruit of holiness - Ro 6:22-23
Received in the age to come - Mk 10:29-30
Received at the time of judgment - Mt 25:46
In the sense of our abundant life now
Offered by Jesus - Jn 10:10
A quality of life made possible by our relationship with God - Jn 17:2-3
A life in Christ enjoyed even now - 1Jn 5:11-13
-- Thus godly living has promise both in this life, and that which is come! - 1Ti 4:8

CONCLUSION
Can we understand why "The Gospel Of Christ" is "good news"...?
The "facts to believe" contains the message of God's love and grace
The "commands to obey" are not difficult works, done to earn salvation, but simple acts of faith whereby we receive God's grace - cf. 1Jn 5:3
The "promises to receive" help us deal with the real problem of sin in our lives
What have you done with "The Gospel of Christ"...?
You have now heard it, if not before
You know as much as those who heard it on the day of Pentecost, if not even more
Together with the apostle Peter, we implore you...

"...Be saved from this perverse generation." (Ac 2:40)

J.
 
Johann used them in a rebuke directed towards me. You can Google them to learn about them as they are not mentioned in Scripture.

In this world God placed me in there exists thousands of religious sects and businesses, many of which call the Jesus of the Bible their Lord. Most all of them are founded on the teaching or philosophies of men like Augustine, or the Council of Nicea, or later on religious philosophers like Calvin, Huss, Wesley, Russell, Smith, Miller etc. The list goes on and on. These religious franchises in some cases, and sects all compete with each other for contributing members to grow their religious club or business. Some of these businesses have become enormously huge corporations creating massive wealth prophesying and doing great works “In Christs Name”. Jesus talks about them in Matthew 6 and 7 and again in Revelation 18.
I also stay away from all the individuals you mentioned, especially Augustine. His writings have caused incalculable extensive damage across all of Christiandom. The only exception to your list that I have is the Council of Nicea. That was a gathering of those who had parts of their bodies mutilated or eyes gouged out by Roman authorities for their Christian beliefs. No prosperity preachers there, that's for sure. That Council plus the Calcedon Council was a profound step forward in our understanding of the Bible and of Christology. This was necessitated by all the diabolical heresies prevalent at that time and present even to this day.
I have escaped these religious sects, by the Grace of God and their differing and ever changing doctrines and Philosophies and am striving to enter the Path Jesus and the Faithful members of the Church of God, AKA the Body of Christ walked in. Members like Abel, Abraham, Moses, Caleb, David, Zacharias, Simeon, Cornelius, Matthew Paul just at to name a few. In this club, God provides the teachers, His Son is the High Priest who provides Himself as my sin offering, and His Temple is in our mind. This is the condensed version as I am typing on my phone, but wanted to show you respect and common decency by answering your question.

It’s late and I’m taking my grandson deer hunting in the morning so I must get some sleep. I’ll talk with you later.

Have a good night.
The Bible is profoundly important but it does not cover everything in detail. For example, the Church. It briefly mentions Church practices but does not go extensively into them. It talks about the importance of Church, as the Body of Christ, but does not go into details as to its practices. The Church was already established when Paul started his Epistles so there was no need for him to write extensively about that which was functional and working properly already. What I'm trying to say is that although the Bible is profoundly important, fellowshipping with Christians is very important also.
 
You are engaging with an opponent who does not interpret the Bible literally but instead spiritualizes its content, interpreting much of it symbolically or allegorically. @TomL


The Bible teaches that Jesus can serve as our Mediator precisely because He is God, as well as fully human. His unique identity as both fully divine and fully human enables Him to perfectly bridge the gap between God and humanity. Here’s how Scripture supports this:

Jesus as Mediator: 1 Timothy 2:5 states, "For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus." This verse highlights Jesus' humanity, but His role as Mediator is inseparable from His divine identity. Only someone who is both God and man could adequately represent both parties.

Jesus Intercedes Because He Is Divine: Romans 8:34 says, "Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us." Jesus' intercession is effective because of His divine authority and His victory over sin and death through His resurrection. If He were not God, His intercession would lack the power and authority necessary to be effective.

Unity with the Father: Jesus declared in John 10:30, "I and the Father are one." His unity with the Father shows that His intercession is not an act of a separate being pleading with God but the work of God Himself, bringing humanity into reconciliation with Him.

Jesus as High Priest: Hebrews 7:24-25 explains, "But because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them." His eternal divine nature ensures that He can intercede for us continually and effectively.

Jesus as the Exact Representation of God: Hebrews 1:3 states, "The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word." Jesus' ability to mediate and intercede is rooted in the fact that He is fully God, sharing the divine nature and authority.

"THE EPISTLE TO THE HEBREWS"
Our Glorious High Priest (8:1-6)

With the beginning of chapter eight, we come to the close of the first major section of "The Epistle To The Hebrews"...
In which the key thought is "The Superiority of Christ"
In which Jesus is shown to be superior to:
To the prophets - He 1:1-3

To angels - He 1:4-2:18
To Moses - He 3:1-5

To Aaron and his Levitical priesthood - He 5:1-10; 7:1-28--and superior to Muhammad and all other successive messengers

The next major section really begins in earnest with verse 7...
In which the key thought will be "The Superiority of the New Covenant"
In which this covenant is shown to be based upon:

Better promises - He 8:7-13
A better sanctuary - He 9:1-28
A better sacrifice - He 10:1-18
In He 8:1-6, we find a transition...
In which the main point of the first section is summarized
In which the main points of the next section are introduced
-- Indeed, these six verses truly summarize what the author seeks to establish in the first ten chapters of this epistle!
It can all be summarized in these words: "We have such a High Priest..."
In Jesus, we have a High Priest
Not just any High Priest, but "such" a High Priest; i.e., a glorious High Priest!
[In what ways is Jesus "Our Glorious High Priest"? First, He is...]

SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD (1)
THE PHRASE "THE MAJESTY IN THE HEAVENS"...
A Jewish circumlocution meaning "God" (Believers' Study Bible)
I.e., a roundabout way of referring to God - cf. He 1:3


MANY PASSAGES REFER TO JESUS AT GOD'S RIGHT HAND...
David prophesied that the Messiah would sit at God's right hand - Ps 110:1
Jesus said that He would sit at the right hand of God - Mk 14:60-62
When He ascended to heaven, He then sat down at God's right hand - Mk 16:19; He 12:2
At God's right hand, He poured forth the Holy Spirit - Ac 2:33
Peter preached Jesus as being exalted to be at God's right hand as our Prince and Savior - Ac 5:30-31
Paul taught that Jesus is at God's right hand, interceding for us - Ro 8:34
He is at God's right hand, "waiting till His enemies are made His footstool" - He 10:12-13
Yet while He sits and waits, He rules! - Ps 110:1-2,5; cf. 1Co 15:24-26
For at God's right hand, He is above all other authority - Ep 1:20-22; 1Pe 3:22
-- In one place, we read of Jesus "standing at the right hand of God" (Ac 7:55-56); was Jesus showing His respect for Stephen, the first Christian martyr?
[Exalted to such a place of honor and authority, we truly have a "glorious" High Priest, one who is "the ruler over the kings of the earth" (Re 1:5)! As we look at the next verse in our text, we see that He is also...]

A MINISTER OF THE TRUE TABERNACLE (2-5)
ERECTED BY GOD, NOT MAN...

We are now introduced to a contrast between two "tabernacles"
There had been the earthly sanctuary or tabernacle
As ordained under the first covenant (i.e., the Law) - cf. He 9:1ff
It was built by man
But now we read of one "which the Lord erected"; i.e., a heavenly tabernacle
The heavenly tabernacle is none other than heaven itself! - cf. He 9:11-12; 23-24

IN WHICH HE OFFERS "SERVICE"...
As a High Priest, it is necessary for Him to have something to offer - He 8:3
Every high priest is appointed for this purpose - He 5:1
What Jesus has to offer is not mention here, but will be later - cf. He 9:12
This service He renders in heaven, not on the earth - He 8:4
If He were on earth, He couldn't be a priest!
For the Law required priests from the tribe of Levi, and Jesus was from Judah
As for priests on the earth...
They serve only the copy and shadow of the heavenly things - He 8:5
For Moses had been told by God to build the earthly tabernacle according to pattern shown to him on the mountain - cf. Exo 25:40
[As "Our Glorious High Priest", then, Jesus renders service in the true tabernacle, which is heaven itself. This thought will be expanded upon in chapters nine and ten. But consider also how He is...]

THE MEDIATOR OF A BETTER COVENANT (6)
HE HAS OBTAINED A MORE EXCELLENT MINISTRY...

In contrast with the ministry of the Levitical priests
Their ministry was simply a shadow and copy of His ministry - cf. Col 2:16-17

AS MEDIATOR OF A BETTER COVENANT...
The word "mediator"...
The Greek is "mesites" {mes-ee'-tace}

It means "one who intervenes between two, either in order to make or restore peace and friendship, or form a compact, or for ratifying a covenant"

By His death on the cross, Jesus has become the Mediator of the new covenant - cf. He 9:15; 12:24
This new covenant is here referred to as "a better covenant"
Better than what? Better than the "first covenant" - cf. He 8:7
I.e., what had been established through Moses

ESTABLISHED ON BETTER PROMISES...
What makes the new covenant better than the old are its promises
Some of those promises are explained later - cf. He 8:10-12
But Peter describes the promises we receive as "exceedingly great and precious promises" - cf. 2Pe 1:3-4

CONCLUSION
With this transition passage, then, we are introduced to things that will be expounded upon as we proceed through the epistle...
The better covenant we have in Christ, based upon its better promises
The better ministry Christ renders as our High Priest in heaven, seated at God's right hand
When such things are properly understood, we can see how Jesus is truly "Our Glorious High Priest"!
One who stands ready to minister in our behalf
He is "able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him" - He 7:25
He is "able to aid those who are tempted" - He 2:18
Have you accepted Jesus as your High Priest by obeying His gospel? He is truly...

"...the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him." (He 5:9)
For those who have not obeyed His gospel, we find this awesome warning:
"...and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those WHO DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power..." (2Th 1:7-9)

My apologies @TomL but it was for his benefit.

J.
No apologies necessary
 
Jesus as God
The doctrine of Jesus as God is fundamental to salvation and an essential truth about the character of God. Below is a list of references that confirm the deity of Jesus and offer proof that he has always been and will always be God. Those who diminish, doubt, or deny the divinity of Jesus do so at the destruction of the scriptures.

“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. “ – Heb 13:8

Matthew 1:23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Matthew 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

Matthew 9:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.

Matthew 14:26-33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Matthew 16:16-17 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Matthew 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Matthew 25:17-46 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Luke 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. ~ See prophecies about God being the only saviour

Luke 19:43-44 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

Luke 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

John 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Colossians 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Colossians 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell;

Colossians 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; Col 2:3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

1Timothy 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Hebrews 1:3-4 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

Revelation 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

Revelation 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Revelation 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

J.
Amen
 
I have found your characterization of his posts an inaccurate description. To say he "rarely" quoted scripture is simply not true. In this thread alone, #51, #70, #72, #88 he quotes scripture and invites an honest discussion about them.

I don't agree with his adopted religious sect, but I also don't believe a man should call Jesus their Lord, but refuse to be a doer of His sayings, choosing instead to transgress God's Judgments and Commandments by their own manmade religious traditions and philosophies practiced "In His Name". I'm not sure which is worse, a man calling himself a "Christian" while rejecting God's Commandments and Judgments contrary to Jesus' Teaching. Or calling himself a Bali's while believing and walking in the Commandments and judgments of God that Jesus walked in.

As Jesus Himself said,

John 10: 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; "because I said", I am the Son of God? 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.



I don't see that HE denies the power of the Scriptures, seeing he quotes and believes what is written, same as you claim. I think you are upset with him, because he doesn't recognize or accept the religious philosophies "you" have adopted and are promoting, nor does he recognize your authority that you claim over him, to judge him. In the same way Civic doesn't recognize or accept the religious philosophies of Calvinism, and Calvinist don't recognize the religious sect Civic has adopted, or his authority to judge them that he is promoting.

For me, the Jesus "of the Bible" tells me who to be more concerned about being deceived by. And HE is clear about this in the scriptures. It is those who call Jesus Lord, Lord, who "Transform themselves" into Apostles of Christ, who "Come in His Name" teaching that HE, Jesus, IS the Messiah, that I am to "Take heed" of. I believe Jesus should be the ONE who knows if anybody does. Pancho is none of these things, and doesn't claim to be any of these things.

But many do!



You have completely ignored everything I wrote in my post, including the Scriptures I referenced therein. Why would you do that? Pancho doesn't do that. He is eager and willing to have a kind and respectful discussion about the Scriptures, and he is met with rudeness, insults, and seldom with honest answers to his question posed to those on this forum who claim to be the wisdom of the wise. How is this any different than poor Anna, a poor widow who would most assuredly be mocked by the Priests and scribes of her day for her understanding of God and His Salvation, proven superior to the Gamaliel's, Priests and scribes of that time.

Surely it isn't a sin to consider all these writing as truth.



Whose "Divine Truth"? The Popes? Wesley's"? Armenians? Kenneth Copeland? John Calvin? Russell? Shammai? Hillel? Baháʼu'lláh?

You believe your teachers are superior to Pancho's. So do Calvinists. So does Civic. And yet you all have adopted this world's religious sects and businesses as your own. Jesus told you who to pray to, and who to worship, and even how to pray and who to "Yield yourself" a servant to obey. And yet you reject His Own Teaching concerning all these things in order to preserve your own adopted religious philosophy.

So how are you more righteous that he? How are you wiser than he?

Why not believe and then live by (be doers) of "Every Word" of God as the Jesus "of the Bible" did and instructs to do? Why not believe ALL of Jesus' Words, including who to worship, and how to pray, and who to pray for, and how not to be a hypocrite?

And what if the religious masses I am surrounded by refuse to do so? Didn't the same thing happen to Caleb? Was his story not given to me for examples, for my own admonition?



Duet 18: 15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, "like unto me"; unto him ye shall hearken;

John 5: 46 For "had ye believed Moses", ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye "believe not his writings", "how shall ye believe" my words?

Luke 16: 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

What is the difference between you and Pancho? You call Jesus "God" and Pancho calls Him "the Son of God".
His faith teaches Christ was but a prophet and not even the greatest one at that. He denies Jesus is the only way to the father

John 14:6 (LEB) — 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

This is a very significant matter
 
Haven’t I repeated several times that millions of Trinitatians DO NOT pray to Jesus?
If you need this to be repeated more times, I’ll do it.
Millions of Trinitarians do NOT pray to Jesus and Jesus did not demand such thing as sign of true discipleship.
If you pray to Jesus, good… and if you pray to Our Father, great! you are following the example of the Jesus you love.



There is one God and one mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus”, (1 Tim 2:15)
Do you know this text, TomL?

So… accordomg to Scripture, asking Christ Jesus to act as your intercessor before God has nothing to do with calling Jesus a Man… thing that, by the way, I haven’t done.
You can ask Jesus to intercede to God, and be your Mediator, precisely because He is not God.
And have I not told you that you do not know what millions of Christians do. I would also add that I believe your definition of what is Christian suspect

Nothing personal but as baha'i you cannot define Christian for me.

As previously noted Christians holds Christ is both God and man, so nothing 1Timothy 2:15 is not contrary to the belief,

Being both God and man makes him a fit mediator between the parties
 
Jesus as God
The doctrine of Jesus as God is fundamental to salvation and an essential truth about the character of God. Below is a list of references that confirm the deity of Jesus and offer proof that he has always been and will always be God. Those who diminish, doubt, or deny the divinity of Jesus do so at the destruction of the scriptures.

It is the prince of this world that diminishes the works and sacrifice of the Jesus "of the Bible". It does this, as it always has, by Professing to know God, but promoting lies about Him to those who would listen to him. It is cleaver, and subtle and always quotes "some" of God's Words, but only the words it can twist the meaning of, to advance its agenda which is to convince people to worship him, and not the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, as the Jesus "of the Bible" said to worship. It snares "people", like it did Eve, to promote its religious philosophy, and reject God's. Basically, she was convinced by the "other voice" in the garden, who professed to know God, that when God said she would die for walking in a way contrary to His Instruction that HE was lying to her. But most importantly, she furthered this deception on to others she loved. There is no evidence that she had any ill will towards Adam but was simply deceived into believing a lie about God and His Word and shared this deceit with others. By definition, "being deceived" simply means believing something that isn't true.

According to Scriptures, we can resist and overcome these lies and temptations (Deception) it promotes by "following" Jesus. The Bible defines "following" as "walking even as He walked", or as Paul calls it "Walking in the Spirit". Jesus said to "Live by" every Word of His Father, because the Words of His Father, the One True God, that HE gave to Jesus to give to us, they are Spirit and they are Life, according to Jesus' own Words. And I believe Him.

God's Word strictly forbids the creation of any image of God in the likeness of anything on earth or in heaven. In this world God placed me in, there are images of God promoted by a huge and very wealthy religious system that calls itself, "Christianity". And they all profess to know God, and they all call Jesus Lord, Lord. They preach in His Name, help people "in His Name", create millions of manmade shrines of worship, all in His Name. And this world's religions, who call Jesus Lord, Lord, have also created and are promoting an image of God, in the likeness of a very handsome long-haired man they call Jesus, contrary to God's First and Greatest Commandment. The Jesus "of the Bible" would never walk in this way, and neither did any of the Examples of Faith His Father gave us. And they have also rejected God's Feasts and Sabbaths that HE created for man, that Jesus and all the Faithful examples of the bible walked in, and have created instead, their own high days in worship of this image they have created and disseminated across the whole world. Rio De Janeiro has a quite large and popular statue of this image of God, but it is also plastered all over this world on TV, Billboards, movies etc. And this religious system preaches to all that adopt them, "This is the god" that saved them.

This religious system also teaches the lie that God's Laws are a Yoke of Bondage that HE placed on the necks of men who trusted Him that are impossible to follow, that only God could obey them. Some frauds even promote the lie that God placed 613 Laws on the necks of Caleb and the rest of the Israelites. But when a man reads the Scriptures for themselves, they will find that God never placed 613 Laws on the necks of even ONE person. They teach that the God and Father of the Lord's Christ lied to Israel when HE told them they could walk in His instruction that was created for their own wellbeing, then killed them by the thousands when they didn't. And that this image of God they created, had to come and save them from the God of the Bible, and His impossible to obey Laws.

They also preach to whoever will listen to them, that Jesus overcame sin and temptation, not because HE was a mortal man of great Faith, who humbled Himself and Yielded Himself to His Father in humble obedience, as all the Scriptures teach. But instead, they preach HE overcame Sin because HE was immortal God, and therefore couldn't sin, couldn't be tempted, and couldn't die.

This "Mainstream Christian" teaching makes a mockery of the life of the Jesus "of the Bible" and diminishes His Extraordinary Love and devotion to His Father and most importantly, His Great Faith that when exercised allowed even Peter to walk on water, just as Jesus did. But it advances their ancient image of God and their high days, and their judgments, and their religious traditions of man, etc. I believe Jesus was a man, as Prophesied, who showed us how to live in God's Righteousness and become perfect, even as His Father in Heaven is perfect.

These worldly religions diminish God and His Son by promoting a philosophy that when the lipstick is removed relegates the God and Father of the Lord's Christ like unto a coach of a team in which His Son also partakes. And this God withholds any performance enhancing drugs for the members of the team, except for His Son who HE gives without measure. And then, when the Son outperforms all the other members of the team "because" of the performing enhancing drugs, God gives Him the Trophy, and all the honor and glory even though had the rest of the team been given the same drugs, they too, would have achieved the same victory.

This teaching you are supporting and promoting, though popular, is not what the Scriptures teach. Jesus was a mortal man who overcame sin and temptation by following God's instruction in righteousness. As Jesus and Paul teaches:

2 Tim. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, (Even as your Father in heaven is perfect, like Jesus was) throughly furnished unto all good works. (That Jesus walked in)

To "follow" Jesus is the only way to Atonement and Eternal Life.

Ps. 14: 7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore (Because of This) God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

The Good News of the Gospel of Christ is that it isn't too late for me given I am already full of Sin. I can repent become a "Doer" of the Jesus "of the Bibles" sayings. I can turn away from the other voices in the garden God placed me in, "who profess to know God", and listen to the High Priest of God who teaches to both the Jew and Gentile, "that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance", and has, in great mercy, provided for me teachers throughout the Holy Scriptures. And to believe that God's obedient Son Jesus, offered to God for my sins, His Own perfect, sinless mortal Life. This Same mortal man was raised from the dead, given immortality, and a place at the Right Hand of His Father and my Father. And through HIS death, I am reconciled to God, but it is "Following Him" in His walk as a man before HE was murdered, that leads to such a great resurrection.

Rom. 5: 8 But God commendeth "his love" toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath "through him". 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by "the death of his Son", much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved "by his life". (Walking even as HE walked, in the Spirit)

When you choose God's Word over this world's religious system, you will understand these things, just as Paul did when the scales fell off of his eyes. But until men "Come out of her", they will only promote her philosophies, her doctrines and her image of God.

There is no "Good Work" without God. There is no "Jesus" without God. There is no "eternal life" without God. I implore you to listen to this Jesus "of the Bible" concerning the religions of this land God placed you in, spoken of in Matt. 6 & 7 and throughout the entire Bible. And then become a "Doer" of His Sayings, and not a hearer only.

.33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and "his" righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
 
And have I not told you that you do not know what millions of Christians do. I would also add that I believe your definition of what is Christian suspect

Nothing personal but as baha'i you cannot define Christian for me.

As previously noted Christians holds Christ is both God and man, so nothing 1Timothy 2:15 is not contrary to the belief,

Being both God and man makes him a fit mediator between the parties

It is the prince of this world that diminishes the works and sacrifice of the Jesus "of the Bible". It does this, as it always has, by Professing to know God, but promoting lies about Him to those who would listen to him. It is cleaver, and subtle and always quotes "some" of God's Words, but only the words it can twist the meaning of, to advance its agenda which is to convince people to worship him, and not the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, as the Jesus "of the Bible" said to worship. It snares "people", like it did Eve, to promote its religious philosophy, and reject God's. Basically, she was convinced by the "other voice" in the garden, who professed to know God, that when God said she would die for walking in a way contrary to His Instruction that HE was lying to her. But most importantly, she furthered this deception on to others she loved. There is no evidence that she had any ill will towards Adam but was simply deceived into believing a lie about God and His Word and shared this deceit with others. By definition, "being deceived" simply means believing something that isn't true.

According to Scriptures, we can resist and overcome these lies and temptations (Deception) it promotes by "following" Jesus. The Bible defines "following" as "walking even as He walked", or as Paul calls it "Walking in the Spirit". Jesus said to "Live by" every Word of His Father, because the Words of His Father, the One True God, that HE gave to Jesus to give to us, they are Spirit and they are Life, according to Jesus' own Words. And I believe Him.

God's Word strictly forbids the creation of any image of God in the likeness of anything on earth or in heaven. In this world God placed me in, there are images of God promoted by a huge and very wealthy religious system that calls itself, "Christianity". And they all profess to know God, and they all call Jesus Lord, Lord. They preach in His Name, help people "in His Name", create millions of manmade shrines of worship, all in His Name. And this world's religions, who call Jesus Lord, Lord, have also created and are promoting an image of God, in the likeness of a very handsome long-haired man they call Jesus, contrary to God's First and Greatest Commandment. The Jesus "of the Bible" would never walk in this way, and neither did any of the Examples of Faith His Father gave us. And they have also rejected God's Feasts and Sabbaths that HE created for man, that Jesus and all the Faithful examples of the bible walked in, and have created instead, their own high days in worship of this image they have created and disseminated across the whole world. Rio De Janeiro has a quite large and popular statue of this image of God, but it is also plastered all over this world on TV, Billboards, movies etc. And this religious system preaches to all that adopt them, "This is the god" that saved them.

This religious system also teaches the lie that God's Laws are a Yoke of Bondage that HE placed on the necks of men who trusted Him that are impossible to follow, that only God could obey them. Some frauds even promote the lie that God placed 613 Laws on the necks of Caleb and the rest of the Israelites. But when a man reads the Scriptures for themselves, they will find that God never placed 613 Laws on the necks of even ONE person. They teach that the God and Father of the Lord's Christ lied to Israel when HE told them they could walk in His instruction that was created for their own wellbeing, then killed them by the thousands when they didn't. And that this image of God they created, had to come and save them from the God of the Bible, and His impossible to obey Laws.

They also preach to whoever will listen to them, that Jesus overcame sin and temptation, not because HE was a mortal man of great Faith, who humbled Himself and Yielded Himself to His Father in humble obedience, as all the Scriptures teach. But instead, they preach HE overcame Sin because HE was immortal God, and therefore couldn't sin, couldn't be tempted, and couldn't die.

This "Mainstream Christian" teaching makes a mockery of the life of the Jesus "of the Bible" and diminishes His Extraordinary Love and devotion to His Father and most importantly, His Great Faith that when exercised allowed even Peter to walk on water, just as Jesus did. But it advances their ancient image of God and their high days, and their judgments, and their religious traditions of man, etc. I believe Jesus was a man, as Prophesied, who showed us how to live in God's Righteousness and become perfect, even as His Father in Heaven is perfect.

These worldly religions diminish God and His Son by promoting a philosophy that when the lipstick is removed relegates the God and Father of the Lord's Christ like unto a coach of a team in which His Son also partakes. And this God withholds any performance enhancing drugs for the members of the team, except for His Son who HE gives without measure. And then, when the Son outperforms all the other members of the team "because" of the performing enhancing drugs, God gives Him the Trophy, and all the honor and glory even though had the rest of the team been given the same drugs, they too, would have achieved the same victory.

This teaching you are supporting and promoting, though popular, is not what the Scriptures teach. Jesus was a mortal man who overcame sin and temptation by following God's instruction in righteousness. As Jesus and Paul teaches:

2 Tim. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, (Even as your Father in heaven is perfect, like Jesus was) throughly furnished unto all good works. (That Jesus walked in)

To "follow" Jesus is the only way to Atonement and Eternal Life.

Ps. 14: 7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore (Because of This) God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

The Good News of the Gospel of Christ is that it isn't too late for me given I am already full of Sin. I can repent become a "Doer" of the Jesus "of the Bibles" sayings. I can turn away from the other voices in the garden God placed me in, "who profess to know God", and listen to the High Priest of God who teaches to both the Jew and Gentile, "that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance", and has, in great mercy, provided for me teachers throughout the Holy Scriptures. And to believe that God's obedient Son Jesus, offered to God for my sins, His Own perfect, sinless mortal Life. This Same mortal man was raised from the dead, given immortality, and a place at the Right Hand of His Father and my Father. And through HIS death, I am reconciled to God, but it is "Following Him" in His walk as a man before HE was murdered, that leads to such a great resurrection.

Rom. 5: 8 But God commendeth "his love" toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath "through him". 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by "the death of his Son", much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved "by his life". (Walking even as HE walked, in the Spirit)

When you choose God's Word over this world's religious system, you will understand these things, just as Paul did when the scales fell off of his eyes. But until men "Come out of her", they will only promote her philosophies, her doctrines and her image of God.

There is no "Good Work" without God. There is no "Jesus" without God. There is no "eternal life" without God. I implore you to listen to this Jesus "of the Bible" concerning the religions of this land God placed you in, spoken of in Matt. 6 & 7 and throughout the entire Bible. And then become a "Doer" of His Sayings, and not a hearer only.

.33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and "his" righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
I agree with everything you've written, but I still feel you might think I'm messianic, some Jewish Hebrew person, or that I consider myself to be one. Please don't judge me-judge my posts for God's glory and for the honor of our dear and great God, Jesus Christ.

Who is Jesus to you-just a man, or the God-Man?

Who died on the cross-Jesus in His humanity, or Jesus as God?

J.
 
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