Doug Brents
Active Member
That is not a complete answer. Who is it that Scripture says are the elect?
Here's a hint: there are several verses needed for this answer.
The Issue of Limited Atonement
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
Here's a hint: there are several verses needed for this answer.
brightfame52
Active Member
I don't know what you looking for you're not making the better sense to me
Doug Brents
Active Member
You are so focused on it being "God's elect" that are saved, you can't see who it is that is part of God's elect.
Rom 11:7 and following shows that not everyone who is Jacob's biological descendant is part of the elect. But there are many Gentiles who will be/are part of the elect. So what makes them part of the elect?
How does God choose who is to be elect and who is not? Is it just an arbitrary, random choice on His part?
NO!!
God chose who will be saved based upon His knowledge of what would happen before He created the world. Rom 8:29 says that God chose to predestine for salvation those whom He knew would choose Him in faith. Heb 7:25, 1 Tim 2:4, Heb 11:6 and many others tell us that God saves (chose to save before He created the world) those who seek and come to Him in faith. This means that those who are part of the elect are those who He knew would seek Him in faith. His choice of the elect is not arbitrary or random, and we do have the ability to choose to be part of the elect, or not.
brightfame52
Active Member
The Elect, from amongst all nations
atpollard
Active Member
That appears to violate the aseity of God.
from GOT QUESTIONS?
The aseity of God is His attribute of independent self-existence. God is the uncaused Cause, the uncreated Creator. He is the source of all things, the One who originated everything and who sustains everything that exists. The aseity of God means that He is the One in whom all other things find their source, existence, and continuance. He is the ever-present Power that sustains all life. There is no other source of life and none other like Him: “For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me” (Isaiah 46:9).
The aseity of God is expressed in Exodus 3:14. When Moses asked the Lord about His name, God replied, “I AM WHO I AM.” God is the eternally self-existent Being who always was and always will be. The aseity of God is related to His complete independence. God has no need. He is complete in and of Himself and always has been. God did not create man because He was lonely or because He needed to create. He is and always has been complete and self-sufficient in and of Himself.
God’s name I AM embodies the concept of God’s eternality and immutability, both of which are linked to His aseity. God is eternal (Psalm 90:2). He did not have a beginning. He has always been. God is unchangeable (Malachi 3:6; James 1:17), always the same yesterday, today, and forever. He will be what He is forever. All of God’s attributes—His love, power, wisdom, etc.—are eternal and unchanging. They are as they have always been and will never be any different.
God’s aseity assures us that His autonomy is absolute. He alone decides what to do, and nothing can ever thwart His purpose to keep His promises. What He promises to do, He will do. What He predicts will come to pass. When God says, “My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please” (Isaiah 46:10), He is emphasizing His aseity and sovereignty.
Doug Brents
Active Member
It does not violate His independent self-existence at all. The fact that God chooses those who come to Him in faith as the ones He will/has saved has zero impact on His existence or His independence. Nor does it mean that He has changed in any way.
atpollard
Active Member
YOU said: "God chose who will be saved based upon His knowledge of what would happen before He created the world."
God is making a plan that is 100% dependent on factors external to God.
God’s aseity assures us that His autonomy is absolute. He alone decides what to do, and nothing can ever thwart His purpose to keep His promises. What He promises to do, He will do. What He predicts will come to pass. When God says, “My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please” (Isaiah 46:10), He is emphasizing His aseity and sovereignty.
It may not violate His aseity, but it certainly gives the appearance of doing so. Your simple denial does not remove the paradox that you have created.
You have the "divine" equivalent of ...
"I am the man in this house and I do whatever I want; what I want is to do whatever my wife says."
brightfame52
Active Member
It's an personal Choice based upon His Sovereign Will within Himself, so nothing outside of Himself played a factor. His own Mercy and Grace purposed in Himself Eph 1:9
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Doug Brents
Active Member
That is not completely accurate. Yes, it is His sovereign will that He offer salvation to all mankind. But the fact that He offered salvation to all of mankind does not force that salvation upon anyone. Salvation is only actually received by an individual when that person comes to God through faith in Christ. As was pointed out to you in another thread, Jesus' death and resurrection provides potential salvation. Actual salvation received by each individual is contingent upon that person demonstrating faith in Christ.
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes it is accurate
civic
Active Member
as the saying goes you can lead a horse to water but cannot make it drink
Doug Brents
Active Member
You have a very bad habit of only addressing the portion of posts which you can attack, rather than the proofs given in Scripture. Address the Scripture given that shows the truth of my statement and the lie that yours becomes.
brightfame52
Active Member
There's no text you can provide, election is of Gods own purpose and Grace.
Doug Brents
Active Member
And He told us what His purpose is, and how His grace is applied. Yet you want to ignore that and focus solely on everything being of Him, instead of seeing what He demands of us. You have eyes, yet cannot see. You have ears, yet cannot hear.
brightfame52
Active Member
I don't know what you talking about
Doug Brents
Active Member
And therein lies your problem. When you are willing to learn, to actually use your eyes to see and your ears to hear, I would be willing to teach you some of the truths you have been missing for so long. I pray that day is soon.
