brightfame52
Active Member
Sorry, the ones Christ died for are free from guilt, Justified. No charge can be laid on them Rom 8:33
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Their charges have been purged away
The Issue of Limited Atonement
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Their charges have been purged away
Doug Brents
Active Member
I never said anything against those that He justified being freed from sin and guilt. The problem in your statement is that he didn't only die for those He justified. The justified are those who surrender to Him in faith. Those who refuse to surrender to Him in faith are not justified, yet He died for both the justified and the unjustified.
civic
Active Member
Amen
brightfame52
Active Member
Its simple, the ones Christ died for have their guilt of sin washed away. We know that doesn't applies to all humanity, so His death is limited to them that have their sins purged away. Duh
Doug Brents
Active Member
That is NOT what Scripture says. That is your fabrication based on your disbelief of Scripture and God's power. Scripture says that Jesus died for all mankind, the whole world, not only the saved but the whole world, etc. You cannot overcome this truth with clever wordplay, or diversions. It is correct that not everyone will be saved, that that is because God set conditions upon His gift of salvation. If you believe in Jesus, and surrender to the will of God, then He will remove your sins. But if you refuse to believe in Him, then you will remain in sin and be condemned to Hell. But that doesn't mean that Jesus didn't die for you. It just means that you reject His gift.
brightfame52
Active Member
It does, its a biblical statement. Its for certain that the ones Christ died for their guilt of sin has been removed. Heb 1:3 so we can make biblical deductions from that fact.
Doug Brents
Active Member
Heb 1:3 - "And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,"
This is Hebrews 1:3. Where does it say that His sacrifice for sin was only for those who accept His offer? It does not says that in any way, shape, form, or manner.
brightfame52
Active Member
Yep He purged their sins and guilt away, thats salvation Ps 79:9
Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of thy name: and deliver us, and purge away our sins, for thy name's sake.
Doug Brents
Active Member
Again, where does Heb 1:3 says any of that? It doesn't even hint at it. How do you get "He only died for those who are saved" from "When He had made purification of sins"? It's not there.
civic
Active Member
You mean assumptions
brightfame52
Active Member
Those Christ died for by it their sins and guilt have been removed, so much so they [their sins] will never be imputed to them.
This was accomplished before His ascension to the Right Hand of God Heb 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
The when he had is aorist tense, past completed b4 He sat down, those sins will not be imputed to them Rom 4:8
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
brightfame52
Active Member
the deriving of a conclusion by reasoning
Doug Brents
Active Member
Again, that doesn't restrict His sacrifice to just those whose sins are removed. You are placing limits on Jesus sacrifice that Scripture does not.
Jesus died for all mankind, not just those whose sins are removed. The effect of His sacrifice is only received by those who submit to His will in faith. But anyone can submit to Him in faith. It is not restricted to only those who were "made" to be saved, and excluding those who were "made" to be condemned. Everyone was made to be saved, but everyone has sinned, which means that everyone is condemned. Jesus came to die for the lost, the condemned (which means He came to die for everyone).
brightfame52
Active Member
It positively declared those for whom Christ died have their sins and guilt taken away.
Doug Brents
Active Member
Where? Where is that "positively declared"?
brightfame52
Active Member
Heb 1:3
civic
Active Member
It says no such thing
Hebrews 1:3
He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
brightfame52
Active Member
Sure it does
civic
Active Member
nope thats you reading into the bible passage your " personal " beliefs which is eisegesis.
Doug Brents
Active Member
As you have already been told, that verse does not say anything about Christ only dying for the saved. It says that He "made purification of sin". That does not say anything about who purification of sin is available to, or how it is secured for those who receive it.
Now, I ask again: Where is that "positively declared"?
