brightfame52
Active Member
Its there
The Issue of Limited Atonement
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
Doug Brents
Active Member
Only in your mind.
brightfame52
Active Member
It makes a declaration that them for who Christ died, their sins by Him were purged, the guilt of them is gone Heb 1:3
brightfame52
Active Member
Heb 1:3 is in my mind
Doug Brents
Active Member
No, that is not what it says. It says that He made the forgiveness of sin possible. It says NOTHING about who He died for. It says NOTHING about who can receive forgiveness of sin.
Again, Where is that "POSITIVELY DECLARED"?
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes it does
Doug Brents
Active Member
That is your opinion, and you are fully qualified to have it. But it does not reflect what Scripture ACTUALLY says.
"And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,"
This Scripture says that He (Jesus) "made purification of sins". He made it possible. It says NOTHING about who He died for. It says NOTHING about who can receive forgiveness of sin.
Again, Where is that "POSITIVELY DECLARED"? Can you find any other passage that actually says that Jesus died only for those who are saved?
brightfame52
Active Member
It is a biblical fact. If Christ died for a individual that individual sins are purged away along with the guilt!
Doug Brents
Active Member
Not completely true. Sin is indeed purged for all those who are saved, that is what being saved means. But Christ died for all mankind, as 1 John 2:2 says. Only the sins of those who accept Him in faith are purged, which is what so many passages about salvation say.
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes it is completely true
Doug Brents
Active Member
You have been shown the Scripture that explicitly says and proves otherwise.
brightfame52
Active Member
Ain't no otherwise
Doug Brents
Active Member
Your inability to see is only exceeded by your unwillingness to see.
brightfame52
Active Member
All you doing is resisting a truth about Christs Death, what it effects makes it clear its limited in scope.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
It does not say what you think it says.
brightfame52
Active Member
You wish it didnt
Doug Brents
Active Member
The limit of it's effect does not limit it scope.
If I said to all 7 million people in Atlanta that anyone who visited my house would receive a new car at no cost and only three people showed up to get the car, that does not in any way limit the scope of the offer. It only limits the number of people who benefit.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Lets break it down....
Heb 1:3
3And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
“The radiance of the glory of God”
FACT , the Son is eternally from the Father (not created), yet personally distinct.
Radiance (apaugasma) expresses shared divine glory, not confusion of persons.
Just as light radiates from the sun without diminishing it, the Son shares the Father’s divine life while remaining distinct in personhood.
This is about shared essence, not forced roles.
Side note" Free will is not threatened here because eternal relation is not coercion. The Son is not compelled by the Father; He eternally shares the divine nature while possessing a real will.
“Exact imprint of His nature”
The word charaktēr indicates a perfect correspondence.The Son shares the same divine nature (ousia) as the Father.
Yet the Son has a distinct personal will, not a separate nature.
During the Incarnation, the Son assumes a human will in addition to His divine will (Dyothelitism).
Thus:
Ontological equality does not erase personal freedom.
Unity of essence does not mean sameness of person or mechanical obedience.
“Upholds all things by the word of His power”
This affirms divine sovereignty without determinism.The Son sustains creation as God.
Sustaining existence does not equal determining every choice.
Trinitarian free-will theology holds that God can maintain the order of creation while allowing genuinely free moral agents.
Divine omnipotence does not = exhaustive causal determinism.
4. “After making purification for sins”
This clause grounds salvation in real historical obedience.The Son freely assumed human nature (John 1:14).
In His humanity, Jesus obeyed the Father voluntarily, not by necessity (Heb 5:8).
Gethsemane demonstrates a real human will capable of choosing obedience (Luke 22:42).
The atonement is effective because the Son freely offers Himself, not because the outcome was metaphysically unavoidable.
“Sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high”
This is functional subordination, not ontological inferiority.The Son remains fully divine.
His exaltation follows His incarnate obedience (Phil 2:6–11).
Authority is exercised within the Trinity through loving, voluntary order, not coercive hierarchy.
The Son reigns with the Father, not under Him as a lesser being.
Hebrews 1:3 teaches that the Son eternally shares the Father’s divine nature and glory while remaining personally distinct, freely sustaining creation as God. In the Incarnation, He assumed a genuine human will and voluntarily obeyed the Father, accomplishing purification for sins through freely chosen faithfulness. His exaltation reflects not coercion or predetermination, but the loving, ordered communion of the Triune God.
How about a bumper sticker for you or be great for your signature......
Hebrews 1:3 affirms the Son’s full divinity and real personal freedom, showing that within the Trinity unity of essence coexists with voluntary obedience and genuine will, not determinism.
brightfame52
Active Member
The effects and scope are congruent or in harmony. For instance it was not just Hebrew people that had their sins purged by Christ, but some Gentiles as well in other locations in the earth.
brightfame52
Active Member
No matter how you slice it, the ones Christ died for All their sins have been purged away, with the guilt. They can't die in their sins. They are legally saved from the penalty of sin. They legally have eternal life From 6:23
