The Issue of Limited Atonement

[civic]

Nowhere in Scripture does it say Christ ONLY died for the elect:

Limited atonement is unbiblical

1-He died for ALL (1 Tim. 2:6).

2-He died for ALL MEN (Rom. 5:18; 1 Tim. 4:10).

3-He died for US ALL, for ALL OF US (Isa. 53:6).

4-He died for the UNGODLY (Rom. 5:6).

5-He died for CHRIST-DENIERS (2 Peter 2:1).

6-He died for SINNERS (Rom. 5:8).

7-He died for EVERY MAN (Heb. 2:9).

8-He died for MANY not few (Matthew 20:28).

9-He died for the WORLD (John 6:33,51;
John 1:29 and John 3:16).

10-He died for the WHOLE WORLD (1 John 2:2).

11-He died for the WHOLE NATION of Israel (John 11:50-51).

12-He died for the CHURCH (Eph. 5:25).

13-He died for His SHEEP (John 10:11).

14-He died for ME (Gal. 2:20).

hope this helps !!!

 

[synergy]

The key to understanding the Gospel that Paul preached, and Limited atonement, meaning that even though the proclamation of the Gospel isn't limited in its scope, for it should be preached to all the world, over the the entire globe, yet the atonement is limited to whom its beneficiaries are for, its only for a foreknown elect people. It was pictured and typed in Gods chosen earthly national people Israel, and when it came to the redemptive things of God, it was only for Israel, and not the other estranged peoples of the earth. so they had a high priest for the benefit of the people Heb 2 16-17

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

And so it must be understood, that when Paul preached that Christ died for OUR SINS He died as a Faith High Priest, and it was to make reconciliation for the sins of a very specific people. The People in Vs 17 in the greek has the definite article

ὅθεν ὤφειλεν κατὰ πάντα τοῖς ἀδελφοῖς ὁμοιωθῆναι ἵνα ἐλεήμων γένηται καὶ πιστὸς ἀρχιερεὺς τὰ πρὸς τὸν θεόν εἰς τὸ ἱλάσκεσθαι τὰς ἁμαρτίας τοῦ λαοῦ

Also sins has the definite article, the sins of a definite, particular people and for their particular sins.

Thats who Paul means in 1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Now did Christ die according to scripture as the Merciful and Faithful High Priest of the people ?

(1 John 2:2) He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

John makes it clearer, in a later Epistle of his, that the Atonement is not just for believers but for the whole world. So, you can now dispense with your limited Atonement heresy.

 

[civic]

(1 John 2:2) He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

John makes it clearer, in a later Epistle of his, that the Atonement is not just for believers but for the whole world. So, you can now dispense with your limited Atonement heresy.

Amen watch him twist that passage into a theological pretzel

 

[synergy]

Amen watch him twist that passage into a theological pretzel

That's only possible with dirt poor language skills and with blatant ill-conceived conflations that anyone with elementary language skills can easily see through.

Someone should do an English language skills test on all TULIP believers. The results would reveal a lot.

 

[brightfame52]

His Death limited to the House of David

Zech 13:1

In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

The Seed of David see Ps 89

Rom 1

Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

This House of David and Inhabitants of Jerusalem are the elect, typified !

 

[civic]

His Death limited to the House of David

Zech 13:1

In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

The Seed of David see Ps 89

Rom 1

Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

This House of David and Inhabitants of Jerusalem are the elect, typified !

Nothing there about elect another failure.

 

[brightfame52]

(1 John 2:2) He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

John makes it clearer, in a later Epistle of his, that the Atonement is not just for believers but for the whole world. So, you can now dispense with your limited Atonement heresy.

You cant find anything according to scripture that teaches unlimited atonement. 1 Jn 2:2 teaches limited atonement, Christ intercedes for that whole world because He is its advocate 1 Jn 2:1 thats a defense attorney saying His clients are not guilty, thats true of Gods elect Rom 8:33-34


33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

So do you think Christ is in heaven pleading the innocence/justification of people yet guilty and condemned ? So nobody in that whole wide world of 1 Jn 2:2 is condemned, guilty. Now if you believe in universalism then you interpret 1 Jn 2:2 the whole world as every single person in the world, which it doesnt say.

John makes it clearer, in a later Epistle of his, that the Atonement is not just for believers but for the whole world.

False, he makes it clear that its just not for jewish believers.

 

[brightfame52]

From scripture which Paul preached the Gospel from 1 Cor 15:1-4

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Now according to scripture, there is only one people promised to be Justified in the Lord, Isa 45:24-25

24 Surely, shall one say, in the Lord have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

The see of Israel is Gods Elect, not just ethnic jews only but gentiles are included in this seed of israel

So when we read for example Rom 5:1,9

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

This is of the seed of Israel as promised in the scripture Isa 45:24-25

 

[brightfame52]

Restricted Redemption
Elder O. B. Mink
Now In Glory

“Ipray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which Thou hast given me; for they are Thine”(John17:9).​

Itis unequivocally clear from the words of Christ in the above text and context that there is a people for whom He did not and would not pray. John seventeen (17) is the priestly or mediatorial prayer ofJesus whereby He intercedes for the “many”whom the Father had given Him in the covenant of eternal redemption(verse 2).
In His sinless humanity or as the perfect man, Jesus prayed for His enemies, but all the functions of His mediatorial office were restricted to only those whom He substitutively represented on the cross. Speaking of His redemptive blood, Christ said: It “... is shed for many for the remission of sins”(Matthew 26:28).


Quantitatively, the “many” whose sins Jesus bore in His body on the tree is notthe Adamic family, and only by forcing the term (“many”)and obliterating its restrictive significance can it be made to accommodate the general atonement theory.


Christsaid, “...The scripture cannot be broken” (John 10:35).However, He did not say they could not be wrested, twisted, or distorted. Peter said, the “unlearned and unstable wrest”the scriptures to “their own destruction” (II Peter3:16). The natural man, to whom all scripture is utter foolishness (I Corinthians 2:14), has not only perverted God’ sword in making the sacrificial blood of Christ to be the indiscriminate offering for all mankind, but from his desperately wicked heart he has compounded his foolishness by teaching that mans’eternal destiny is determined by his own volitional power.


The salvational efficacy theory of the will of fallen man is exceedingly pleasing to his intellectual palate, yea, it is his most relished doctrine, but in the end it will be more bitter than gall, and he will in vain try to spew it out of his mouth. “Bread of deceit is sweet to a man, but afterwards his mouth shall be filled with gravel” (Proverbs20:17).


The unrestricted redemptionists are long on believeism, but are fatally short on Bible. Their error is Satan’s dye by which he attempts to bedim the color of God’s plenary and inspired fabric of truth, and thereby keep his dupes confused and use them to confound others and compound their own guilt. Yet, the word of God remains untainted, and that inerrent and immutable word, says: “... The good Shepherd giveth His life for the sheep” (John 10:11).


Metephorically speaking, Christ died for His sheep and for His wheat. Realistically speaking, Christ died for His “many sons”. Goats never become sheep, tares never become wheat, and the children of the devil never become the children of God (John 8:44; 10:11; Hebrews2:10). Christ said to the self salvationists of His day: “Ye believe not because ye are not of My sheep” (John 10:26).They were perfectly content with their supposed scheme of redemption, and Christ knowing the irreconcilable and absolute depravity of their hearts said unto them: “Ye will not come to Me that ye might have life” (John 5:40).

Restricted Redemption : O. B. Mink

 

[brightfame52]

Christs Death was limited to the gathering unto one the children of God, and not the children of the devil, the serpent seed. Jn 11:50-52

50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52 ;And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

There was an elect remnant of the children of God in the nation of Israel, but also He had a elect remnant amongst the Gentiles to gather with them, by His death.

Theres a division in the world of the children of God and the children of the devil 1 Jn 3:10

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

In the original we have the definite article Identifying each set of children:

ἐν τούτῳ φανερά ἐστιν τὰ τέκνα τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ τὰ τέκνα τοῦ διαβόλου· πᾶς ὁ μὴ ποιῶν δικαιοσύνην οὐκ ἔστιν ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ ὁ μὴ ἀγαπῶν τὸν ἀδελφὸν αὐτοῦ

Now which group would Jesus be kinsman redeemer unto ?

 

[jeremiah1five]

I'm not going to take a stand on whether or not atonement is limited or sufficient for all because I honestly don't know.

Atonement is limited to only those in covenant with God for that is the purpose of covenant.

I'd just like to hear from non-Calvinists as to how they reconcile their view of atonement with the fact that not all people will be saved. Isn't that, by definition, limited atonement? Or is there another explanation?

While the children of Israel were under the Law and from the first Passover in Egypt the night before they left Egypt, God instituted the Mosaic Covenant on top of the Abraham Covenant, and the New Covenant on top of the Mosaic Covenant. For hundreds of years the children of Israel were performing the Law of God having to do with atonement for sin, which according to the Law of Moses they would kill an animal yearly to atone for the sins of the children of Israel. And for hundreds of years while the children of Israel were doing this, non-Hebrew Gentiles were being born and dying in their sins daily without atonement from God. Generations of Gentiles born into the world only to die at the end of their lives lost in sin without a sacrifice for their sins. The atonement described in Scripture and under the Law was limited to only the children of Israel.

 

[brightfame52]

@jeremiah1five

Atonement is limited to only those in covenant with God for that is the purpose of covenant.

and that's the Spiritual Seed of Abraham comprised of jew and gentiles, children of the covenant Acts 3:25

25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Peter didn't realize that Gentiles are included in that same covenant, Paul preached it Gal 3:8

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen[Gentiles] through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Unfortunately you deny this Gospel Truth

 

[jeremiah1five]

@jeremiah1five

and that's the Spiritual Seed of Abraham comprised of jew and gentiles, children of the covenant Acts 3:25

Man has no spiritual seed. Man is of the earth, earthy. How can man claim any spiritual heritage when it is Christ who rules the spiritual realm? Abraham had two children, and both (Ishmael and Isaac) were born consisting of body and soul - no human spirit, nor does he possess even the Holy Spirit at least until the day of the Jewish Feast of Harvest circa AD 32, when the Holy Spirit was given to Israel and Israel alone. That was the day when natural Olive tree Israel became spiritual Olive tree Israel with the advent of the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL and Israel alone as written by the prophet Joel. The only "spiritual seed" Scripture speaks about is that God is Spirit and those born of God (John 1:12-13), are born-again because God's seed remains in him (and her.)

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9.

We who are born again of the Spirit are born again because of God's seed is planted in us (those ordained to eternal life.)

13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
Matthew 15:13.

Every seed the Father has not planted shall be rooted up. And that is the difference between wheat and tares. God plants a seed which grows up unto eternal life; and tares of fake conversions/births planted by men. So, there is no "spiritual seed" planted by men except that which is planted by God. It is THAT seed which shall grow up unto eternal life, and neither Abraham nor anyone else possess any spiritual seed unless that seed is of God.
Thus, there is no such thing as "Abraham's spiritual seed."
You do err not knowing the Scripture nor the power of God!

25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

"In thy seed" means his (Abraham's) physical seed. And Abraham's physical seed was passed on to both Ishmael and Isaac. In other words, "in thy seed" refers to Abraham's physical seed biologically, and it is Abraham's physical seed that is blessed by God by virtue of the covenant God made with Abraham. One seed (Isaac) is inheritor of both blessing and covenant; and the other seed (Ishmael) possessing only blessing and no covenant.

What do you get when one parent is Hebrew and the other is Egyptian? You get a mixed heritage Hebrew.
What do you get when both parents are Hebrew? You get a Hebrew child. The mixed heritage Hebrew (Ishmael) because he is of the physical seed of Abraham receives blessings because of covenant and at the same time NOT being inheritor of the covenant. While the physical seed of Abraham and Sarah - both Hebrew and descendant of Eber receives both blessing AND covenant.

Peter didn't realize that Gentiles are included in that same covenant, Paul preached it Gal 3:8

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen[Gentiles] through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Unfortunately you deny this Gospel Truth

No, I understand it differently. I know that God made covenant with Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13) and that God identifies that Abraham is of the physical and biological seed of Eber, of whom the Hebrew people derive and hold as "great-great-grandfather" of the Hebrew people, as opposed to a physical and biological seed of a Hebrew (Abraham) and an Egyptian slave (Hagar) and know the difference of each.

The Scripture says, "In thee" (Abraham's physical seed) shall all the families of his seed be blessed. Your error is to interpret "heathen" as Gentile and this is incorrect. Gentiles are not born to two Hebrew parents. It is an impossibility.
God has not only blessed Abraham's physical seed whether by Hagar or Sarah, but that one seed will populate the land that is of Abraham's seed and Hagar's egg; but that one family is destined to be elevated ABOVE ALL the families of the earth, and that is the Hebrew people born from two Hebrew parents.

6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. Deuteronomy 7:6.

Or ABOVE all families that are born on the face of the earth; or ABOVE all nations that are born on the face of the earth.
God identified Abram as Hebrew (Gen. 14:13) but you cannot identify a Gentile nor give me his name with whom God has made salvation covenant with that by virtue of Deuteronomy 7:6 would then be secondary to the ONE family that God would exalt ABOVE all nations or families that are upon the face of the earth.
If God identifies Abram as Hebrew and the recipient of covenant and blessing, why doesn't God identify the Gentile with a name and identify as Gentile as He did with naming Abraham as Hebrew?
Instead, you want to take "heathen" as your proof that Gentiles are being described or identified? Why would God NOT identify the Gentile and the Gentile name of the Gentile you claim God has covenant with? And if God is identifying "heathen" as Gentile then this unknown named Gentile is to be secondary to the Hebrews through which the true covenant exists between God and the Hebrew people through Abram and Sarai? If God did make covenant with Gentiles, then what is this Gentile's name and where is this covenant recorded and described in the Hebrew Scripture? God named Abram and described him as Hebrew; why hasn't God named this Gentile and described him as Gentile instead of leaving this person to be interpreted as "heathen" and not Gentile specifically? Why is this Gentile hidden by general terms like "heathen" and not pigeonholed as Gentile?

No, your interpretation is weak. God made covenant with Abram the Hebrew and Abram's Hebrew seed and gave him and his seed both blessing and covenant, while Abram's other seed mingled with an Egyptian by virtue of Abram's covenant only to be blessed without a covenant? The inheritance passed to Isaac, NOT Ishmael.

21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
Genesis 17:21.

And it is Abram's family that God promised to elevate ABOVE all the families of the earth.

6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. Deuteronomy 7:6.

You CANNOT show me in the Hebrew Scripture God making covenant with Gentiles, nor can you tell me that Gentile's name. You throw around general terms like "nations" and "heathen" and try to force Gentile into the text when God made NO COVENANT with Gentile's or any Gentile named.

Ishamel and Isaac. One has only blessing and no covenant, and the other has both blessings AND covenant.
And ONLY ONE FAMILY will God exalt ABOVE all the [other] families that are on the face of the earth.
God declares the Hebrew people as a "holy people" a "chosen" people, a "special people" unto Himself, ABOVE all people that are upon the face of the earth.

Every other family is tied as a distant second to the ONE family God exalts ABOVE all families on the face of the earth.

 

[brightfame52]

@jeremiah1five

Man has no spiritual seed.

The Man Christ Jesus did, of the seed of Abraham. Do you deny Jesus Christ has a seed ?

 

[brightfame52]

The death of Christ is limited to His Brethren He was made lie unto Heb 2:17

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

All mankind isn't His Brethren, only those whom God foreknew and made Him the firstborn of Rom 8:29-30

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

The same brethren are mentioned here Rom 11:2

2 God hath not cast away his people [brethren]which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

When Jesus says to the reprobate at the end of the age these words Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
He never knew them as His Brethren as Per Heb 2:17

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

He never made reconciliation for their sins, they were never His brethren whom God foreknew

 

[jeremiah1five]

@jeremiah1five



The Man Christ Jesus did, of the seed of Abraham. Do you deny Jesus Christ has a seed ?

Jesus is only begotten. There is no one like Him and He never had children.
The "Da Vinci Code" is a lie.