The Issue of Limited Atonement

I'd just like to hear from non-Calvinists as to how they reconcile their view of atonement with the fact that not all people will be saved.
From my Christian pov that sin only accrues to a person who by a true (ie, not while enslaved to sin already) free will chooses to rebuke YHWH as a false god (the reprobate) or who disobeys HIM while accepting HIM as their GOD (the sinful elect, HIS sheep gone astray into sin, the sinful people of HIS kingdom).

I don't accept that some sins are forgiven because HE hates them less than other sins because I believe any every, each and all sins have an equal and ultimate disvalue in HIS sight. HE created us for a reason and with a free will to be able to fulfill that reason and any disruption to the fulfillment of that reason must either be cured or destroyed or HIS purpose will never be fulfilled, ie, HIS creation married with HIM.

Iow, the reason some sins are forgiven and some are not, lies in the person being forgiven and some people being outside of HIS mercy and grace by their own free will.

What choice can a person make that causes GOD to hate them, putting themselves outside of HIS loving care and forcing HIM to banish them to the outer darkness?

Unforgivable sin, the Satanic fall:

The unforgivable Sin
From my Christian pov, the unforgivable sin was the Satanic fall, their free will decision to reject by faith, ie, an unproven hope, YHWH's unproven claims to be our creator GOD and to reject the gospel of salvation from sin as found only in the Son. It contained the ideas that HE was no better than the rest of us so HE must be a liar and as a liar, a false god...just listen to atheists and pagans about their opinion of HIM for confirmation.

As the first liar in all of creation, HE must therefore be the most evil person in existence so they repudiated HIM, rejecting HIM from having any influence in their lives at all. Putting their faith in this idea that HE was evil and driven by a psychotic megalomania made them eternally unfit to ever be HIS Bride so they were condemned to judgement on the spot, passed over for election to salvation due to their choice.

They can't be forgiven because
1. they made the decision to rebel against GOD's claims to Deity by their free will and a free will decision cannot be changed by anyone, even GOD, unless the person asks for it to be changed. All free will decisions must be sacrosanct and inviolable and apart from GOD's interference or it cannot be defined as free. This is not a rule but a matter of definitions: A cannot be not A at the same time; wet cannot be dry at the same time; free to choose an unchangeable decision can't therefore be changed by another and still be considered free.

2. Once they rebelled they became enslaved by the addictive power of evil which destroyed their ability to seek true repentance and unable to save themselves by changing their minds about HIM. They were instantly and totally unable to repent of their evil and became even more committed to the belief that they were right to rebel against this upstart liar and false god. So great is their addiction to evil that even after they learned the truth of HIS divinity and power when they saw the creation of the physical universe with their own eyes as described in Job 38:7, they could not change their minds because they loved their sin more than the truth as we learn in Roman 1:18+.

This describes the Satanic fall that precipitated the war in heaven and had all sinners, elect and reprobate, flung into the earth, Rev 12:4-9.

They are not unforgivable because HE hates them and their sin so much because it is worse than other sins but because when HE proclaimed HIS gospel of salvation to every creature created in HIS image, Colossians 1:23, for us to accept HIS claims or to reject HIM, HE promised us our choice would not be interfered with or changed or forced upon us without our consent, though there would be legal and natural consequences...warnings explained to everone in full but which some ignored as lies.

The choice to eternally repudiate HIS help in saving them from the grip of sin while becoming unable to save themselves by changing their minds sealed their doom.

HE lovingly gave them the right and the ability to choose their own fate.
HE was fair and righteous to allow them to choose evil after warning them sincerely about the natural and legal consequences for choosing evil.
It was righteous for HIM to not interfere after they made the choice to rebuke HIM as a false god by allowing their free will choice to work out to its end.

They did not want to live with HIM in HIS heavenly marriage so much they chose to repudiated HIM even though they knew that if HE was ever proven to be their GOD, they would be doomed to hell... Iow, they chose to go to hell by their free will rather than ever having to live with HIM in HIS heaven. Alas, that is what they get.

So committed were they to this idea of HIS being a false god, they even ignored the ploy of those who decided to accept YHWH's claims and gospel until HE elected them to salvation as HIS gospel promised so that they were free of all danger of hell if it were ever proven that HE was indeed our creator GOD at which time they planned to go their own way whether HE thought it was a sin or not. As elect what did they have to lose? But the reprobate denounced this bit of theological skulduggery as beneath their faith in opposing HIM eternally, not believing that HE had any power to do anything about it.

Thus, while GOD chooses our LIVES unto our redemption or to hell based upon our own free will choices, we chose our eternal FATES unto redemption or hell by our own free will.
 
I'm not going to take a stand on whether or not atonement is limited or sufficient for all because I honestly don't know.

I'd just like to hear from non-Calvinists as to how they reconcile their view of atonement with the fact that not all people will be saved. Isn't that, by definition, limited atonement? Or is there another explanation?
The atonement was made and is available to all. But not all believe. The atonement is not going to help a atheist.

Limited atonement is a theological concept primarily associated with Calvinism, asserting that Christ's death and resurrection provide atonement specifically for the elect rather than for all of humanity equally.

This doctrine, also known as "particular redemption," posits that Jesus' sacrifice was intended to secure the salvation of those chosen by God, effectively accomplishing its purpose without failure. Proponents of this view argue that while Christ's atoning sacrifice is sufficient to cover the sins of all humankind, its intended effectiveness is specific to the elect.

Some argue that this perspective avoids the implication of a potentially unsuccessful atonement, which they associate with universal atonement theories. However, it's important to note that this doctrine is often misunderstood and can be controversial, as it raises questions about the scope of salvation and God's intentions.
An Exploration of Christian Theology
 
@Cosmo
False comment, nowhere in scripture.
True... The atonement of Jesus Christ is a theme that runs throughout the entire Bible—it is at the very heart of God’s redemptive purpose for all humanity who believe if Jesus.

John 3:16:
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Salvation is provisional: it is available for all, but each person must come to God personally in order to receive pardon from sin.


Atonement refers to the substitutionary work of the incarnate Son of God, accomplished through the giving of His life at Calvary in payment for sin. In the Old Testament, the Hebrew word kaphar, translated atonement, literally means “to cover; cancel.” Figuratively, it carries the implication of appeasement, pardoning, and reconciling.
 
Do you understand the post ?
Yes, my friend
What I want to know is how you answer questions like the one I'm doing, particularly when you are preaching to a person.

For example, it is common to say to a person interested in believing in God: "God loves you"
But if you are not sure she is one of the elects, and you don't believe that God loves the non-elects, what do you say to that person?
 
Yes, my friend
What I want to know is how you answer questions like the one I'm doing, particularly when you are preaching to a person.

For example, it is common to say to a person interested in believing in God: "God loves you"
But if you are not sure she is one of the elects, and you don't believe that God loves the non-elects, what do you say to that person?
If I was witnessing to someone I would share the Gospel with them, about Christ, who He is, what He has done to save His People.
 
If I was witnessing to someone I would share the Gospel with them, about Christ, who He is, what He has done to save His People.
I understand, but the person with whom you are talking wants to know what Christ did for him/her.
That person wants to know if God loves him/her and can forgive him/her and transform him/her into a new person.
Do you agree with me?

So, what is the message you give him/her about God? What words do you use?
 
I understand, but the person with whom you are talking wants to know what Christ did for him/her.
That person wants to know if God loves him/her and can forgive him/her and transform him/her into a new person.
Do you agree with me?

So, what is the message you give him/her about God? What words do you use?
I told you I would witness the Gospel to them, i would also integrate the Doctrines of Grace, Tulip as I explain the Gospel of Gods Grace.
 
“If God has unchangeably determined who will and won’t be saved, then why evangelize the lost?”

If God, through some kind of inner working of irresistible grace, is going to convince his unconditionally chosen elect to believe the gospel regardless of your effort, then is there any rational reason to persist all day long in attempting to persuade the lost?

 
God loves all the people of the world.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


The “atonement” of Jesus Christ is for all the world and for Christians to have there sins forgiven.


And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2


There is no such thing as Limited Atonement in scripture.
 
I told you I would witness the Gospel to them, i would also integrate the Doctrines of Grace, Tulip as I explain the Gospel of Gods Grace.

The Gospel you will be preaching to them will attract his interest only if he knows that God is calling him. That God has a beautiful plan for him. That God is interested in him.

It would be of little help for the sinner in pain to know that the gospel of salvation applies to the Ethiopians, when he is Brazilian.
It would be of little help for the sinner in pain to know that the gospel of salvation applies to the Brazilians, but only to Brazilian women, when he is a man.
It would be of little help for the sinner in pain to know that the gospel of salvation applies to the Brazilian men, but only to those who finished College, when he didn't.

If you don't make the sinner feel that the gospel is good news for him, what would be the relevance of even listening to you?
 
“If God has unchangeably determined who will and won’t be saved, then why evangelize the lost?”
If you would like an honest answer ...

God has unchangeably determined who will BELIEVE the Gospel when they hear it by giving to SOME (Romans 8:29-30 [NLT] "For God knew his people in advance, and he chose them to become like his Son, so that his Son would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And having chosen them, he called them to come to him. And having called them, he gave them right standing with himself. And having given them right standing, he gave them his glory.") the ability to BELIEVE (Ephesians 2:8-9 [NLT] "God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it."). Thus we can cast the seed with confidence (Luke 8:4-8) because GOD will have prepared SOME GOOD SOIL in which the seed (Gospel) will flourish.

1 Corinthians 3:6 [NLT] "I planted the seed in your hearts, and Apollos watered it, but it was God who made it grow."
 
The Gospel you will be preaching to them will attract his interest only if he knows that God is calling him. That God has a beautiful plan for him. That God is interested in him.

It would be of little help for the sinner in pain to know that the gospel of salvation applies to the Ethiopians, when he is Brazilian.
It would be of little help for the sinner in pain to know that the gospel of salvation applies to the Brazilians, but only to Brazilian women, when he is a man.
It would be of little help for the sinner in pain to know that the gospel of salvation applies to the Brazilian men, but only to those who finished College, when he didn't.

If you don't make the sinner feel that the gospel is good news for him, what would be the relevance of even listening to you?
I told you I would witness the Gospel to them, i would also integrate the Doctrines of Grace, Tulip as I explain the Gospel of Gods Grace.
 
I told you I would witness the Gospel to them
Let me know if I am understanding you correctly when you say "I would witness the Gospel to them"

You would bear testimony of what God has done for you, how Christ died for you and how you have been regenerated, forgiven, changed into a new person. You would talk about your personal experience.

Is this more or less what you mean?

So, you would prefer to omit any reference to what God wants from him, or what God can do for him, because you can't tell if the person listening to you is one of the elects or not. Am I understanding you correctly?
 
Let me know if I am understanding you correctly when you say "I would witness the Gospel to them"

You would bear testimony of what God has done for you, how Christ died for you and how you have been regenerated, forgiven, changed into a new person. You would talk about your personal experience.

Is this more or less what you mean?

So, you would prefer to omit any reference to what God wants from him, or what God can do for him, because you can't tell if the person listening to you is one of the elects or not. Am I understanding you correctly?
I have already told you, you explain the Gospel
 
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