The Issue of Limited Atonement

I challenge you to quote the Reformed Confession that teaches “infants and children go to Hell”.
So, if these infants and children and not part of the elect they can still go to heaven?

Certainly, there is nothing in the Calvinistic system which would teach this; and until it is proven that God could not predestinate to eternal damnation all those whom He is pleased.
 
So, if these infants and children and not part of the elect they can still go to heaven?

Certainly, there is nothing in the Calvinistic system which would teach this; and until it is proven that God could not predestinate to eternal damnation all those whom He is pleased.
I have no idea what YOU consider the “Calvinistic system”, so that is a hard question for me to answer, however, I am a Particular Baptist that accepts the 5-points of Doctrines of Grace commonly called “T.U.L.I.P.” and what I believe on the subject is: "I will show mercy to anyone I choose, and I will show compassion to anyone I choose." - Exodus 33:19 & Romans 9:15 [NLT] … OT & NT … “anyone” means anyone and “I choose” means GOD makes the call (not me) … and none of that is incompatible with monergistic salvation from a Sovereign God (as I advocate).
 
I have no idea what YOU consider the “Calvinistic system”, so that is a hard question for me to answer, however, I am a Particular Baptist that accepts the 5-points of Doctrines of Grace commonly called “T.U.L.I.P.” and what I believe on the subject is: "I will show mercy to anyone I choose, and I will show compassion to anyone I choose." - Exodus 33:19 & Romans 9:15 [NLT] … OT & NT … “anyone” means anyone and “I choose” means GOD makes the call (not me) … and none of that is incompatible with monergistic salvation from a Sovereign God (as I advocate).
So how do you know you are part of the elect? A hit and miss, unsure?

J.
 
So how do you know you are part of the elect? A hit and miss, unsure?

J.
The transformation from an atheist who set enemies on fire to a “new creation” was sufficient evidence of “fruit of the Spirit” to convince me that God told the truth when He said (through Paul): Romans 10:9-10 [NLT] “If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved.”.

Yet how could such a transformation come to pass? … you might ask. I would respond, God did it, just like He said:
Ephesians 2:1-10 [NLT]
Once you were dead because of your disobedience and your many sins. You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil--the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God. All of us used to live that way, following the passionate desires and inclinations of our sinful nature. By our very nature we were subject to God's anger, just like everyone else.

But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much, that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God's grace that you have been saved!) For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus. So God can point to us in all future ages as examples of the incredible wealth of his grace and kindness toward us, as shown in all he has done for us who are united with Christ Jesus.

God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. For we are God's masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.”

And yet, one might still wonder how someone so completely NOT LOOKING for God could come to the place of such a radical transformation, and I would have to stand on a simple ‘yes, and Amen’ to two great truths from scripture:

For God said to Moses, "I will show mercy to anyone I choose, and I will show compassion to anyone I choose." So it is God who decides to show mercy. We can neither choose it nor work for it. - Romans 9:15-16 [NLT]

For no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them to me, and at the last day I will raise them up. ... Then he said, "That is why I said that people can't come to me unless the Father gives them to me." - John 6:44 & John 6:65 [NLT]

Now it is my turn … How do you know you are “good soil” and will endure to the end (or is your eternal security resting upon your ongoing efforts to maintain merit?)

A.
 
Now it is my turn … How do you know you are “good soil” and will endure to the end (or is your eternal security resting upon your ongoing efforts to maintain merit?)
I guess that both questions, the one @Johann made to you, and the one you are making to @Johann, are responded more or less the same way: Faith, evidenced by fruits.

Your life is now different.
Johann's life is now different.
Something happened.

An essential part of that "being different" is that the two of you now trust God's love and can say, like Paul: "For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor present things, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8:38,39)
 
I guess that both questions, the one @Johann made to you, and the one you are making to @Johann, are responded more or less the same way: Faith, evidenced by fruits.
That was the point, but nobody will understand if you answer the question "How does a Calvinist know they are saved (ie. one of the 'elect')?" with the answer "Exactly the same as an Arminian." ... so you have to take the LONG WAY to get there.
 
A Calvinist looks to their good fruit and good works for assurance they are elect.

But that does not logically prove they are elect, as the many with good fruit who fall away prove.
 
A Calvinist looks to their good fruit and good works for assurance they are elect.

But that does not logically prove they are elect, as the many with good fruit who fall away prove.
I was a Calvinist for decades and my assurance came from my daily relationship with Christ. That still has not changed in my daily life since leaving Calvinism.
 

Infants and Children Go Straight to Hell?

Calvinism believes that God sends infants and children to hell because he has predetermined to do so. They claim that God knows ahead of time who would have grown up to become Christians. Therefore, if they die in infancy or as children and were not one of the “lucky ones” that He chose ahead of time, they have no chance of salvation and are forever doomed to eternity in flames. They say that infants and children do not go into Hell and the Lake of Fire as infants and children but as the adults that they would have been (there is no Biblical proof for any such belief). Let us see what the Word has to say about it:
This a blatant lie. As a matter of truth no one goes straight to hell when they die, nothing can be farther from the truth. Purgatory is a RCC lie where a literal present burning hellfire got its teaching from. There is a lake of fire which is the second death where all of the wicked shall perish, but that's after The Great White Throne Judgement, but, there is NO present literal burning hell where wicked are actively living in, so foolish to even believe in such a place. It is a RCC fable.
 

Infants and Children Go Straight to Hell?​

Calvinism believes that God sends infants and children to hell because he has predetermined to do so. They claim that God knows ahead of time who would have grown up to become Christians. Therefore, if they die in infancy or as children and were not one of the “lucky ones” that He chose ahead of time, they have no chance of salvation and are forever doomed to eternity in flames. They say that infants and children do not go into Hell and the Lake of Fire as infants and children but as the adults that they would have been (there is no Biblical proof for any such belief). Let us see what the Word has to say about it:

This is mistaken. They are divided on the issue where some see all infants as elect, and others see them partially elected.

They do not "claim that God knows ahead of time who would have been Christians," as they believe in election not based on anything in man's will nor foreseen faith.

Those who believe infants are not elect believe they are damned just as they are.

At least this would be the two major beliefs in Calvinism, anything else would be very fringe, so please do your research first next time.
 
I was a Calvinist for decades and my assurance came from my daily relationship with Christ. That still has not changed in my daily life since leaving Calvinism.

I would encourage you not to put your trust in your good works you do for Christ, and turn your eyes away from yourself to trust only in the merits of the shed Blood of Jesus on your behalf. It is tempting for us all to revert our trust away from a naked faith in Christ's suffering back into our own faithfulness and goodness.
 
This is mistaken. They are divided on the issue where some see all infants as elect, and others see them partially elected.

They do not "claim that God knows ahead of time who would have been Christians," as they believe in election not based on anything in man's will nor foreseen faith.

Those who believe infants are not elect believe they are damned just as they are.

At least this would be the two major beliefs in Calvinism, anything else would be very fringe, so please do your research first next time.
It’s why infant baptism was invented in the first place due to errors in total depravity of all born in sin with a sinful nature and guilty of sin / condemnation before a knowledge of sin even exists and committing a first sin. They have no way of knowing who are elect and condemned infants. Infant baptism was a get out of jail free card.
 
The Augnstinian doctrine is that original sin is damning, and that infants deserve eternal death on account of it. Being fallen in Adam, they have a corrupt disposition or inclination, which is both voluntary and responsible. It is the self in its central and inmost self-determination. Though the infant has committed no acts of known and wilful transgression, yet his heart is estranged from God, and his will is at enmity with the holy law of God. When be comes to years of consciousness he feels guilty for this estrangement and this enmity, and this proves that it is guilt. An infant, therefore, needs salvation because be is really culpable and punishable. He reqnires the whole work of the Redeemer, both as expiating guilt and cleansing from pollution.

www.biblestudytools.com

Infant Salvation As Related to Original Sin, Calvinism, William Greenough Thayer Shedd, Christian Classics books at BibleStudyTools.com

Read Infant Salvation As Related to Original Sin of Calvinism from author William Greenough Thayer Shedd. Find more Christian classics for theology and Bible study at Bible Study Tools....
www.biblestudytools.com
www.biblestudytools.com
 
from ligoneer more double talk.

A second practical problem is how reprobation relates to infants who die? The caricature described in the Canons of Dort is that those who hold to a doctrine of reprobation believe “many children of the faithful are torn, guiltless, from their mothers’ breasts, and tyrannically plunged into hell” (CD, Conclusion).

Not only was this question a huge issue in the seventeenth century when about 25% of children died in childbirth and then another 25% of those who lived died before age five, but for us, according to the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) anywhere from 10–25% of all clinically recognized pregnancies will end in miscarriage.

So how does the doctrine of reprobation relate to this struggle? The Scriptures teach us as believers that our children are covenant children. The children of at least one believing parent are holy (1 Cor. 7:14) not because they are sinless but because they belong to God’s set apart people. The Lord made His covenant with Abraham and his children (Gen. 17:7). When David found out his child died, he ceased weeping and fasting and arose in confidence that while his son would not come back to him, one day David would see him (2 Sam. 12:23). Where? In the presence of God. David prayed as a covenant member that when he was in his mother’s womb it was the Lord who was forming him and who knew him (Ps. 139). Moving into the New Testament we see that nothing changes. Jesus and the apostles inherit this outlook on children and never say anything to abolish or revoke it. Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 19:14). On Pentecost Peter said God’s promise was to those who believed and their children (Acts 2:39). Paul addressed children in Ephesians 6:1 as they would have been present in the covenant community when this letter was read.

Does this mean all human life that dies in its infancy is in heaven? Whereas Scripture gives us confidence about the children of believers, it is silent about the rest. Great men have personally believed that all infants dying are saved, such as C.H. Spurgeon, Charles Hodge, and B.B. Warfield. So what do we say about aborted life, miscarried life, or precious children of non-believers who die tragically before their life can even get going? We say that God is a good, gracious, and just God and that He will do what is right. We can trust Him.

In the end, what both the doctrines of election and reprobation teach us is that we have a totally sovereign God who is perfectly good. In the end, He will be glorified for His justice but especially His grace, love, and mercy.
 
Reformed teaching on the reprobate and non elect infants. What a damnable doctrine and assault on our God.

www.lutheranlibrary.org

Infant Baptism And Infant Salvation In The Calvinistic System – A Review Of Dr. Hodge's Systematic Theology by Charles Krauth | Lutheran Library Publishing Ministry

“There are but two developed systems in the world that claim with any show of probability to be purely Biblical. These systems are the Lutheran and the Calvinistic. They possess a common basis in their recognition of the same rule of faith; their profession of the Old Catholic faith as set forth...
www.lutheranlibrary.org
 
Gods given us a conscience regarding right , wrong, morality and ethics. We are created in Gods image and therefore have worth and value in His sight. It’s why there is redemption for all mankind, not just some. The atonement was universal. Gods love is universal which includes all the world. Children are innocent , not guilty since they have no cognitive ability to sin, discern right from wrong and have no ability to understand the law or the gospel.

It’s sickening to see the traditions of men assault Gods Goodness, long suffering not wanting any to perish but all come to repentance. Children are innocent and not guilty for their parents or Adams sin.

Infants don’t need a savior , they haven’t sinned. They are innocent. That’s why even most Calvinists will admit they go to heaven which contradicts TD. They know they have a moral dilemma. A contradiction in their system when it comes to infants.

This alone shows the false teaching within Calvinism when it comes to the guilt and punishment that comes with a sin nature from birth.

hope this helps !!!
 
I would encourage you not to put your trust in your good works you do for Christ,
One thing is the good works we try to do for Christ...
a different thing is the good works Christ does everyday through us.
We know we are healed from a mortal disease because we can eat well, sleep well, run, jump, work and feel like a million. We know we are healed because lab tests and imaging tests show a healed body. So this is how we know we are saved:

We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren (1 John 3:14)
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. (1 John 5:2)

It is beautiful and important to look at the cross of the Calvary, 2000 years ago.
But Jesus is no longer on that cross.

So I value a lot the answer of @civic, who is reassured by his relationship with Christ.
It is this PRESENT relationship the source of reassurance of salvation.
 
Gods given us a conscience regarding right , wrong, morality and ethics. We are created in Gods image and therefore have worth and value in His sight. It’s why there is redemption for all mankind, not just some. The atonement was universal. Gods love is universal which includes all the world. Children are innocent , not guilty since they have no cognitive ability to sin, discern right from wrong and have no ability to understand the law or the gospel.

It’s sickening to see the traditions of men assault Gods Goodness, long suffering not wanting any to perish but all come to repentance. Children are innocent and not guilty for their parents or Adams sin.

Infants don’t need a savior , they haven’t sinned. They are innocent. That’s why even most Calvinists will admit they go to heaven which contradicts TD. They know they have a moral dilemma. A contradiction in their system when it comes to infants.

This alone shows the false teaching within Calvinism when it comes to the guilt and punishment that comes with a sin nature from birth.

hope this helps !!!
So, we are "morally good" from birth-according to you- yet Scripture is diametrically opposed to your statement.

J.
 
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