The "hearing" game that Calvinists play

Are you really asking me if a person whom God causes to believe in Christ, can the person reject it ? NO
So how can you say with any credibility that doesn't make one a puppet or robotic.

What is a puppet? One of whose every action is being controlled by the pulling on of strings. Can a puppet make it's own movements outside of the puppeteer? No. Now look at your NO above. Why is it any different?

Now if you're going to believe mankind is merely a puppet then say it. But don't believe it and do everything you can to try to deny that's what you believe.
 
That's not what Calvinists believe though. Your paradigm has it God ordained every thought a person has in other words you would believe God put hate into Josephs brothers to compel them to do what they did.

And Tom asked a good question. You said above they did it of their will. So do you acknowledge therefore that man has FREE WILL?

Free will implies libertarian freedom, which would mean man can choose virtually anything, including choosing to be 100% righteous, obeying God's law perfectly. Obviously, nobody on their own power can do that, so no, man does not have free will.

But it is a non-sequitur to say that if we don't have libertarian free will, we must be robots of puppets. If you're really interested in a scriptural comparison of a bound will vs. free will, I recommend reading a translation of Martin Luther's "Bondage of the Will". I don't agree with everything in that book, but most of it describes what I had already learned from the Bible. It's actually Luther's response to an Erasmus diatribe, so he tackles all the things you see here, like "if God commands we do something, doesn't that mean we have the ability to do it?" It's worth a read just to see what a master of sarcasm Luther was.

But I suspect you're only interested in crying "robot! puppet!" and not a serious study or discussion of the will.
 
So then you are talking about impeccable believers from that point on. Show me even one person like that. Otherwise it is obvious to everyone, except for Calvinists living in their alternate universe, that belief can be rejected.
I dont know what you talking about.
 
God just gives the ability? That's NOT what you believe! You believe God imposes upon one believing through an action your call IRRESITIBLE. Now if it's absolutely irresistible there's your robot, puppet reality.
Yes He gives the ability by regeneration and making them a new creation, then they believe.
 
God doen't cause anyone to believe- faith is up to man, man must believe on the Lord to be saved.

see the bible in Romans 10:8-13. Then read Jesus teaching He said 13 times it’s their faith that saved them and not the faith Gid gave them which you reject and say the opposite of what Jesus said and taught which is the TRUTH.

Parenthesis is Calvinism false assertion below

Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith ( I have given you )hath saved thee; go in peace.

Luke 8:48
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith ( I have given you )has healed you. Go in peace."

Luke 17:19
Then Jesus said to him, "Rise and go; your faith( I have given you ) has made you well!"

Luke 18:42
"Receive your sight!" Jesus replied. "Your faith( I have give you ) has healed you."

Matthew 8:10
When Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those following Him, "Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.

Matthew 8:13
Then Jesus said to the centurion, "Go! As you have believed, so will it be done for you." And his servant was healed at that very hour.

Matthew 9:2
Just then some men brought to Him a paralytic lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, "Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven.

Matthew 9:22
Jesus turned and saw her. "Take courage, daughter," He said, "your faith has healed you." And the woman was cured from that very hour.

Matthew 9:29
Then He touched their eyes and said, "According to your faith will it be done to you."

Matthew 15:28
"O woman," Jesus answered, "your faith is great! Let it be done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Mark 5:34
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be free of your affliction."

Mark 10:52
"Go," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you." And immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.

John 4:53
So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house.

And Paul agrees below with Jesus and me. :)

“Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ….” (Romans 5:1)

“So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.” (Galatians 3:24)

“And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.” (Romans 4:11)

“For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”” (Romans 4:3) [see also Genesis 15:6, Galatians 3:6, James 2:23]

So faith is synonymous with belief in Christ.

And its up to man to believe, a requirement. See below- one must believe to be saved !

“For if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.” (Romans 10:9-10)

conclusion: Faith is required by God and man must believe to be saved- its mans responsibility. And faith is not a work as demonstrated above from scripture.

Oh the games Calvinists play with scripture to support the errant beliefs as demonstrated above.

hope this helps !!!
Yes God causes the redeemed to believe, its in the New Covenant Ezk 36

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

His statues He causes us to walk in is to walk by Faith and to love the people of God . After He puts His Spirit in us by regeneration.
 
So how can you say with any credibility that doesn't make one a puppet or robotic.

What is a puppet? One of whose every action is being controlled by the pulling on of strings. Can a puppet make it's own movements outside of the puppeteer? No. Now look at your NO above. Why is it any different?

Now if you're going to believe mankind is merely a puppet then say it. But don't believe it and do everything you can to try to deny that's what you believe.
I dont know what you talking about sounds like scoffing
 
Yes God causes the redeemed to believe, its in the New Covenant Ezk 36

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

His statues He causes us to walk in is to walk by Faith and to love the people of God . After He puts His Spirit in us by regeneration.
Notice your passage says nothing about faith .

An empty claim at best. Wrong passage to support your beliefs
 
I dont know what you talking about.
Now you're seeking cover by pleading ignorance. You yourself said that a person cannot reject belief in Christ which renders that person impeccable thereafter. Reality shows that is impossible. If you own up to reality you will reject IG.
 
Notice your passage says nothing about faith .

An empty claim at best. Wrong passage to support your beliefs
Faith is implied, for the believer first and foremost walks by Faith which is commanded. Ezk 36

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

2 Cor 5:7

(For we walk by faith, not by sight)

That word statues means commandments, to believe on Christ is an commandment

1 Jn 3:23-24

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us

So again we are caused to believe, to walk in faith.
 
Now you're seeking cover by pleading ignorance. You yourself said that a person cannot reject belief in Christ which renders that person impeccable thereafter. Reality shows that is impossible. If you own up to reality you will reject IG.
I dont know what you talking about.
 
Free will implies libertarian freedom, which would mean man can choose virtually anything, including choosing to be 100% righteous, obeying God's law perfectly.
So why not just stop doing that to yourself implying that's what it means? Free will can mean and does mean the following that mans choices are not ordained. That when God says I've provided salvation for you and righteousness in Christ to receive that doesn't mean I've ordained you to make such a choice or not to make it. You're FREE to make your decision?

Obviously, nobody on their own power can do that, so no, man does not have free will.
You know what you're doing. You're willfully muddying the waters of what free will means, sorry but in a very ridiculous way. So if I took a running jump in the air and said I was going to land on the Moon because I didn't that'd mean in your book, see there! That shows ones free will doesn't exist? Free will in Biblical context only has to mean you can freely choose to accept or not accept what God has for you.
 
So why not just stop doing that to yourself implying that's what it means? Free will can mean and does mean the following that mans choices are not ordained. That when God says I've provided salvation for you and righteousness in Christ to receive that doesn't mean I've ordained you to make such a choice or not to make it. You're FREE to make your decision?


You know what you're doing. You're willfully muddying the waters of what free will means, sorry but in a very ridiculous way. So if I took a running jump in the air and said I was going to land on the Moon because I didn't that'd mean in your book, see there! That shows ones free will doesn't exist? Free will in Biblical context only has to mean you can freely choose to accept or not accept what God has for you.
Isn't interesting how human beings claim they are not/are responsible given their inabilities to explain God's Grace. Grace demands equal application.
 
Free will implies libertarian freedom, which would mean man can choose virtually anything, including choosing to be 100% righteous, obeying God's law perfectly. Obviously, nobody on their own power can do that, so no, man does not have free will.

That is totally false. No one holds to such a belief

Libertarian free will is limited by one's nature

If you are going to address a doctrine you need to address what it is, not what it is not
 
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