The doctrine of election

[The Rogue Tomato]

I mentioned a video where someone buys a religion with which he feels most comfortable.

I don't know anyone who is comfortable with the doctrine of election. Maybe some are. You may say I feel comfortable with it because I believe I'm one of the elect. But you would be wrong.

My best friend for many years is a devout atheist. I am not comfortable with the fact that he may never be saved because God did not choose him. I once asked him how convinced he is that there is no God. I was at a car dealership with him. I drove him there so he could buy a green Ford van. I sat with him for hours waiting for the new van to be ready, discussing God and Christianity. That's when I asked him how convinced he is that there is no God.

He replied, "I'm as convinced there is no God as I am that I will be driving home tonight in my Emerald Green van." The van was finally ready, and I followed him home with the intent to play games there. About halfway home, the van broke down. He said he couldn't start it again because the battery was dead. I drove him around for about an hour looking for a place to buy jumper cables. But it was late, and no store that stocked jumper cables was open.

God sent him a very clear message that night, but to this day he is still a devote atheist. I continue to pray that God will reach him.

I have other friends, some of whom died before I was a Christian. And I pray to God that they were elect and that I will see them again. I had a girlfriend in the '70s who was killed in a car accident. I didn't become a Christian until many years later, but when I did, I prayed constantly that she was saved. I even told God I would be willing if she took my place if it came to that. That's not scriptural, AFAIK, but it is what it is.

The doctrine of election is not a comfortable doctrine, even if you believe you're one of the elect.

 

[civic]

I mentioned a video where someone buys a religion with which he feels most comfortable.

I don't know anyone who is comfortable with the doctrine of election. Maybe some are. You may say I feel comfortable with it because I believe I'm one of the elect. But you would be wrong.

My best friend for many years is a devout atheist. I am not comfortable with the fact that he may never be saved because God did not choose him. I once asked him how convinced he is that there is no God. I was at a car dealership with him. I drove him there so he could buy a green Ford van. I sat with him for hours waiting for the new van to be ready, discussing God and Christianity. That's when I asked him how convinced he is that there is no God.

He replied, "I'm as convinced there is no God as I am that I will be driving home tonight in my Emerald Green van." The van was finally ready, and I followed him home with the intent to play games there. About halfway home, the van broke down. He said he couldn't start it again because the battery was dead. I drove him around for about an hour looking for a place to buy jumper cables. But it was late, and no store that stocked jumper cables was open.

God sent him a very clear message that night, but to this day he is still a devote atheist. I continue to pray that God will reach him.

I have other friends, some of whom died before I was a Christian. And I pray to God that they were elect and that I will see them again. I had a girlfriend in the '70s who was killed in a car accident. I didn't become a Christian until many years later, but when I did, I prayed constantly that she was saved. I even told God I would be willing if she took my place if it came to that. That's not scriptural, AFAIK, but it is what it is.

The doctrine of election is not a comfortable doctrine, even if you believe you're one of the elect.

I understand what you said above from your presuppositions about God regarding election and I affirmed what you said above for decades. But God is not like that as salvation is available to everyone without exception. Faith in Christ saved one and inbelief in Christ condemns. John 3:16-18.

Don’t give up hope with your atheist friend my son in law was raised an atheist and came to Christ after college in his mid 20’s.

 

[praise_yeshua]

1. It is an easy comparison to make when you appeal to a "friend".

Can you include your own children in the your thoughts?

2. Why pray. The choice has been made in your belief. It is obvious to me that you're trying to comfort yourself with prayer.

These are great conversation to have. They are meaningful to everyone. These move past the intellectual mind and go directly to the heart.

That is where the Scriptures "cuts us". The heart.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I understand what you said above from your presuppositions about God regarding election and I affirmed what you said above for decades. But God is not like that as salvation is available to everyone without exception. Faith in Christ saved one and inbelief in Christ condemns. John 3:16-18.

Don’t give up hope with your atheist friend my son in law was raised an atheist and came to Christ after college in his mid 20’s.

I would never give up hope just because I believe in the doctrine of election.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

1. It is an easy comparison to make when you appeal to a "friend".

Can you include your own children in the your thoughts?

I do include my own children. They are atheists and anti-God. I count it as a failure in my parenting.

 

[civic]

I would never give up hope just because I believe in the doctrine of election.

That’s great to hear , amen

 

[civic]

I do include my own children. They are atheists and anti-God. I count it as a failure in my parenting.

Could you or would you explain why you think that ? If you don’t want to discuss that I completely understand.

I have one myself who has left the faith

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Could you or would you explain why you think that ?

I have one myself who has left the faith

I was an unemployed single dad with full custody. Their mom ran off to Germany. I could have done a lot, like read the Bible with them, etc., but I didn't because I was so depressed and stressed about how I could possibly raise them at all. If I had more faith, I could have overcome and done more. But I didn't. Also, I wasn't a strict dad, so they had a lot of liberty to stray. I have a million regrets, but it's too late now. All I can do is pray for them.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I do include my own children. They are atheists and anti-God. I count it as a failure in my parenting.

Regret. We all have them. We should recognize them and our impact upon them.

 

[civic]

I was an unemployed single dad with full custody. Their mom ran off to Germany. I could have done a lot, like read the Bible with them, etc., but I didn't because I was so depressed and stressed about how I could possibly raise them at all. If I had more faith, I could have overcome and done more. But I didn't. Also, I wasn't a strict dad, so they had a lot of liberty to stray. I have a million regrets, but it's too late now. All I can do is pray for them.

I’m not sure if this will encourage you or not but I have a similar experience with my youngest son who left the faith. I’m still married but there was a time when things were rough and she finally had enough and served me divorce papers ( not for infidelity) but drinking and neglecting them. My son did not have the good influence that his older siblings had with me. He was a practicing Christian serving in the church worship team and active all the while he and I had a broken relationship. He is now 27. And just two years ago I asked him for forgiveness for all the hurt and pain I caused him through my own selfish desires where he was neglected by me. He said he would and our relationship is great now even though he is no longer a believer. I’m just loving on him unconditionally and praying the Lord has mercy on him and restores him. All I can do is be an example and give him Christ like love. I have hope he will come back around.

 

[Biblelesson]

I was an unemployed single dad with full custody. Their mom ran off to Germany. I could have done a lot, like read the Bible with them, etc., but I didn't because I was so depressed and stressed about how I could possibly raise them at all. If I had more faith, I could have overcome and done more. But I didn't. Also, I wasn't a strict dad, so they had a lot of liberty to stray. I have a million regrets, but it's too late now. All I can do is pray for them.

Don't stop praying for them as we all know prayer it works. It's actually not too late. Stay strong my brother.

 

[civic]

Don't stop praying for them as we all know prayer it works. It's actually not too late. Stay strong my brother.

Amen

 

[Ahar]

I was an unemployed single dad with full custody. Their mom ran off to Germany. I could have done a lot, like read the Bible with them, etc., but I didn't because I was so depressed and stressed about how I could possibly raise them at all. If I had more faith, I could have overcome and done more. But I didn't. Also, I wasn't a strict dad, so they had a lot of liberty to stray. I have a million regrets, but it's too late now. All I can do is pray for them.

I agree with Biblelesson, It's amazing what God has done in my life. And the lives of my children.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Don't stop praying for them as we all know prayer it works. It's actually not too late. Stay strong my brother

Take it from experience. Every mature Calvinist battles prayer in relationship to election. I could quote many examples.

I charge that you don't really believe prayer will work if God has predestined Edit By admin to hell.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I agree with Biblelesson, It's amazing what God has done in my life. And the lives of my children.

Does God bless you because he loves you or He loves Himself and your children just happen to supposedly be chosen before the foundation of the world?

 

[Ahar]

Does God bless you because he loves you or He loves Himself and your children just happen to supposedly be chosen before the foundation of the world?

He Loves us!

 

[praise_yeshua]

I’m not sure if this will encourage you or not but I have a similar experience with my youngest son who left the faith. I’m still married but there was a time when things were rough and she finally had enough and served me divorce papers ( not for infidelity) but drinking and neglecting them. My son did not have the good influence that his older siblings had with me. He was a practicing Christian serving in the church worship team and active all the while he and I had a broken relationship. He is now 27. And just two years ago I asked him for forgiveness for all the hurt and pain I caused him through my own selfish desires where he was neglected by me. He said he would and our relationship is great now even though he is no longer a believer. I’m just loving on him unconditionally and praying the Lord has mercy on him and restores him. All I can do is be an example and give him Christ like love. I have hope he will come back around.

I know you believe that the Character of God affords your son opportunity. We are not dealing with the same beliefs here. I know you realize this. Just stating this in context of the theological differences being expressed.

My father was a drunk. I hated him for most my early life. Since I was 5 years old, I saw him 3 or 4 times. The last time I saw him alive he was at the funeral of my grandfather with shades on because his eyes were so bloodshot from the booze. No remorse. I've struggled with how I've felt about him for years. It is easy to blame God for our circumstances when we determine our destiny at the benevolent hand of God.
I told my son just this week that I would love to be able to hug my father and tell him I love him today. I would. He has been dead for many years.

If we being evil know how to love, how much more shall God love. The loving character of God is my comfort and my pleasure.

Whether we want to recognize it or not, our children are our responsibilities. It is our fault. Not the false doctrine of election that damns our children and we have to live with it.

 

[Ahar]

Take it from experience. Every mature Calvinist battles prayer in relationship to election. I could quote many examples.

I charge that you don't really believe prayer will work if God has predestined your children to hell.

As much as this hurts, and it should, you are pretending your prayer matters. Nothing more. Pretending.

Why should God answer your prayer when it is not up to you?

Dude you need to chill out, Seriously

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Don't stop praying for them as we all know prayer it works. It's actually not too late. Stay strong my brother.

Thank you.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Don't stop praying for them as we all know prayer it works. It's actually not too late. Stay strong my brother.

Your theology doesn't teach that you have any impact on whether God has chosen your children or not.

Why are you praying if you believe such a thing?