The doctrine of election

[The Rogue Tomato]

Your theology doesn't teach that you have any impact on whether God has chosen your children or not.

Why are you praying if you believe such a thing?

We don't know whom God has chosen. That's why we pray. Read the story of the prodigal son. Would his father stop praying because it was possible it wouldn't matter?

 

[praise_yeshua]

We don't know whom God has chosen. That's why we pray. Read the story of the prodigal son. Would his father stop praying because it was possible it wouldn't matter?

The father prayed because he expected him to return. He called out to God who can save a soul from death....

Who prays without expectation?

Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind.
Jas 1:7 For that person must not suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord;
Jas 1:8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

The father prayed because he expected him to return. He called out to God who can save a soul from death....

Who prays without expectation?

Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind.
Jas 1:7 For that person must not suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord;
Jas 1:8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.

Yes, we ask in faith and hope. Not knowing is not the same thing as doubting. God doesn't always grant you exactly what you ask for just because you ask for it in faith.

 

[Believe]

Your theology doesn't teach that you have any impact on whether God has chosen your children or not.

Why are you praying if you believe such a thing?

I can only answer for myself, and I go with what the Bible says. A righteous person has a living faith that seeks to obey the Lord and His Word needs to pray.

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. James 5:16

And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us.1 John 5:14

This verse specifies that getting a positive answer to prayer is based on asking "according to his will."

 

[Ahar]

I'm not a calvinist but let's please not judge whether our children are saved or not because of our theology. That's worse than talking about somebody's mom or wife.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I can only answer for myself, and I go with what the Bible says. A righteous person has a living faith that seeks to obey the Lord and His Word needs to pray.

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. James 5:16

And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us.1 John 5:14

This verse specifies that getting a positive answer to prayer is based on asking "according to his will."

Edit by Admin

 

[praise_yeshua]

I'm not a calvinist but let's please not judge whether our children are saved or not because of our theology. That's worse than talking about somebody's mom or wife.

Who judged anyone's children. I didn't. I expect God to save my children. God doesn't hate my children. He loves them more than I do

I believe it downright travesty to send a prayer up to God without expecting Him to answer it.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes, we ask in faith and hope. Not knowing is not the same thing as doubting. God doesn't always grant you exactly what you ask for just because you ask for it in faith.

He doesn't. Prove it from the Scriptures.

 

[Administrator]

This is a road we're not going down. Let's leave other people's children out of the conversation period. Any post from here on that are inferring to someone children in anyway will be deleted.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

He doesn't. Prove it from the Scriptures.

John 5:14 Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15 And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him.

You can ask in faith all you want, but if it's not according to His will, he doesn't even hear you.

 

[Believe]

Man it's been a rough one on here today.

 

[Administrator]

Man it's been a rough one on here today.

It's like the phrase if you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen is an expression that is used to tell someone to either handle a situation or, if they can’t, let someone else do it who can.

We got this all under control.

 

[praise_yeshua]

John 5:14 Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15 And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him.

You can ask in faith all you want, but if it's not according to His will, he doesn't even hear you.

So when you ask for God to use evil for your good, He hears you because it is His will,

He might not hear me because I ask something good from from Him?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

So when you ask for God to use evil for your good, He hears you because it is His will,

But when I ask God to save my children, He might not hear me because I ask something good from from Him?

You actually believe it is potentially not the will of God to save MY children.

So many of your responses are of the variety "When did you stop beating your wife?" Which is why I don't answer them.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Believing that our faith in a loving God reach the hearts of our unsaved loved ones all across the world regardless of our theological differences.

It IS his desire that none should perish but that ALL should come to repentance and receive salvation.

 

[Believe]

Believing that our faith in a loving God reach the hearts of our unsaved loved ones all across the world regardless of our theological differences.

It IS his desire that none should perish but that ALL should come to repentance and receive salvation.

And as for our own words and actions I believe it's always better to speak in love and to act in love. Jesus call us to love one another so the world would know that were his disciples.

 

[Aeliana]

And as for our own words and actions I believe it's always better to speak in love and to act in love. Jesus call us to love one another so the world would know that were his disciples.

Love Is the Answer

But be doers of the Word [obey the message], and not merely listeners to it, betraying yourselves [into deception by reasoning contrary to the Truth]. JAMES 1:22

Love must be more than a theory or a word; it has to be action. It has to be demonstrated. God is love, and love has always been His idea. He came to love us to teach us how to love Him, and to teach us how to love ourselves and others. When we do this, life is beautiful; when we don’t, nothing works properly. Love is the answer to selfishness because love gives while selfishness takes.

 

[TomL]

I mentioned a video where someone buys a religion with which he feels most comfortable.

I don't know anyone who is comfortable with the doctrine of election. Maybe some are. You may say I feel comfortable with it because I believe I'm one of the elect. But you would be wrong.

My best friend for many years is a devout atheist. I am not comfortable with the fact that he may never be saved because God did not choose him. I once asked him how convinced he is that there is no God. I was at a car dealership with him. I drove him there so he could buy a green Ford van. I sat with him for hours waiting for the new van to be ready, discussing God and Christianity. That's when I asked him how convinced he is that there is no God.

He replied, "I'm as convinced there is no God as I am that I will be driving home tonight in my Emerald Green van." The van was finally ready, and I followed him home with the intent to play games there. About halfway home, the van broke down. He said he couldn't start it again because the battery was dead. I drove him around for about an hour looking for a place to buy jumper cables. But it was late, and no store that stocked jumper cables was open.

God sent him a very clear message that night, but to this day he is still a devote atheist. I continue to pray that God will reach him.

I have other friends, some of whom died before I was a Christian. And I pray to God that they were elect and that I will see them again. I had a girlfriend in the '70s who was killed in a car accident. I didn't become a Christian until many years later, but when I did, I prayed constantly that she was saved. I even told God I would be willing if she took my place if it came to that. That's not scriptural, AFAIK, but it is what it is.

The doctrine of election is not a comfortable doctrine, even if you believe you're one of the elect.

Only if you assume unconditional election to salvation

Salvatory election in Christ is not the least bit troubling

 

[Grace ambassador]

...comfortable with the doctrine of election.

Precious friend, would that be the uncomfortable [ man-proposed ] "elections"
one to salvation, and the other to Eternal Condemnation?

Or?:

...salvation is available to everyone without exception. Faith in Christ saved one and unbelief in Christ condemns.

Amen! The comfortable "doctrine, according to the Foreknowledge Of God"
of who would believe and be saved, and Then also be predestinated?

"What Saith The Scripture?" 2 Peter 3:9 AV:

1) "...God is Not Willing that any should perish, but that All should come to repentance."

[ No ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ "election to perish" in there, Nor in ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ there, Correct? ]​

2) God "Foreknew" those who would believe, by faith?:

a) God's ​

Responsibility ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ....... our ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ responsibility! Correct?

"For By Grace are ye Saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:​

It Is The Gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."​

(Ephesians 2:8-9 cp Ephesians 1:12-13 AV)​

b) "For whom He Did Foreknow, He also Did Predestinate To Be Conformed To​

The Image Of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren."​

(Romans 8:29 cp Philippians 4:21 AV)​

3) "Saved believers" ( That "God Foreknew and Thus Chose!" ) are also Predestinated

for what Else? "What Saith The Scriptures?":​

​

"According as He Hath Chosen us In Him before the foundation of​

the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him​

in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by​

Jesus Christ to Himself, according to The Good Pleasure of His Will,...​

​

In Whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated​

according To The Purpose of Him Who worketh all things after​

The Counsel Of His Own Will:​

​

That we should be to The Praise Of His Glory, who first trusted in Christ."​

(Ephesians 1:4-5, 11 AV)​

Amen.

 

[civic]

Precious friend, would that be the uncomfortable [ man-proposed ] "elections"
one to salvation, and the other to Eternal Condemnation?

Or?:

Amen! The comfortable "doctrine, according to the Foreknowledge Of God"
of who would believe and be saved, and Then also be predestinated?

"What Saith The Scripture?" 2 Peter 3:9 AV:

1) "...God is Not Willing that any should perish, but that All should come to repentance."

[ No ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ "election to perish" in there, Nor in ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ there, Correct? ]​

2) God "Foreknew" those who would believe, by faith?:

a) God's ​

Responsibility ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ....... our ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ responsibility! Correct?

"For By Grace are ye Saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:​

It Is The Gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."​

(Ephesians 2:8-9 cp Ephesians 1:12-13 AV)​

b) "For whom He Did Foreknow, He also Did Predestinate To Be Conformed To​

The Image Of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren."​

(Romans 8:29 cp Philippians 4:21 AV)​

3) "Saved believers" ( That "God Foreknew and Thus Chose!" ) are also Predestinated

for what Else? "What Saith The Scriptures?":​

​

"According as He Hath Chosen us In Him before the foundation of the world,​

that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love: Having predestinated​

us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to The Good​

Pleasure of His Will,...​

​

In Whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according​

To The Purpose of Him Who worketh all things after The Counsel Of His Own Will:​

​

That we should be to The Praise Of His Glory, who first trusted in Christ."​

(Ephesians 1:4-5, 11 AV)​

Amen.

Amen