civic
Well-known member
Amen !
The Calvinists misunderstanding of the New Birth as taught by Jesus to Nicodemus
- Thread starter civic
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charismaticlady
Active member
You're kidding. Ez. 36: "26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.
We are the recipient. Of what? By Whom? Check out Hebrews 12. Jesus is the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our faith. We do nothing to deserve receiving a new nature. We may try to be righteous, but will soon discover that it is impossible. That's when we ask God to change us. That might have hit a nerve by a lot of forum members, but believe it or not, it is our nature that is renewed. Calvinism makes us think in error that Jesus takes away sin, but not the source!!! Wake up everyone. Changing our nature prevents us sinning over and over again! They believe 1 John 1:9 is not so much to receive the Holy Spirit, but as a get-out-of-jail-free card. No. Jesus takes away our sin INDEED. John 8:34-36. 1 John 1:9 is John's version of Acts 2:38.
cc: @brightfame52, @civic
civic
Well-known member
Amen brother
brightfame52
Well-known member
But he didn't believe yet. He didn't know how. He was looking for what work he could do instead of what to believe.
A regenerated person can be an unbeliever?
Acts 16:30 (KJV) And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
brightfame52
Well-known member
Of course he didn't believe yet,he hadnt heard the word yet duh. Paul gave him the word afterwards to believe Acts 16:31-32
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
brightfame52
Well-known member
You cant believe truth
That's your scriptural proof?
brightfame52
Well-known member
I have given you proof from scripture but you cant see it
Perhaps you're predetermined to be seen scriptures wrongly? How do you really know what's right if you're predetermined?
brightfame52
Well-known member
Its predetermined that you cant see it.
Or it's predetermined that you are the one that can't see it. It's God's call by your doctrine. We wouldn't know any better than what we are made to think is right.
civic
Well-known member
Ditto
It's important to point out that Jesus and Paul instruct men in the goal, or as P{aul calls it, "The Prize" of the "High Calling of God" that was "In Christ Jesus", "The perfect man". This "New Man" is not to repent and then be molded after the imagination or religious opinions of the hearts of popular religious men, like Gamaliel or Jacobus Arminius or John Calvin or Pope John Paul etc., or any of a number of men who "profess to know God. Rather, men are to be reborn after Righteousness and True Holiness as defined by God in the Holy Scriptures. To become like Jesus, the perfect man. To press towards the perfection that was in Christ Jesus. Nothing else matters according to the God Inspired Holy Scriptures.
Eph. 4: 20 But ye have not so learned Christ; 21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth "is in Jesus": 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
This would include the religious philosophies and traditions of this world's popular religious sects, businesses and franchises that exists in the world God placed us in.,
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created "in righteousness and true holiness".
As the Jesus "of the bible" Himself teaches. "Be Ye Perfect", Even as your Father in Heaven "is Perfect". This is the goal that believers are to adopt or "Strive for" and is what Paul teaches, according to Scripture.
Scriptures that Paul said were trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: "That the man of God may be perfect", throughly furnished unto all good works."
Men who have adopted the religious "works" and philosophies of the Pharisees, Armenians, Calvinists, Catholics, and other religious businesses and sects of this world we are born into, are instructed to leave their old life of disobedience to God, that these religions promote behind, like Abraham was instructed to do.
The religious sect of the Pharisees were working to grow their religious business by converting others to adopt their religious philosophies, Not God's instruction in righteousness. No different than those under the employment of, or who have adopted the religious philosophies and traditions of today's religious sects. Jesus Himself warned men to "take heed" that we are not deceived by these "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, but refuse to walk in the "Good Works" God before ordained that we should walk in them. Jesus said in Matt. 6, "Be ye not therefore like unto them", and instructed His People to "Come out of her".
This would be the "First" step in "Putting on the New Man" but for "many" the cost of leaving their old religion behind, like Abraham did, is just too great.
These religions have created their own image of God, their own high days and their own judgments and instruction in righteousness, and have gone about establishing their own righteousness. It's a very seductive religious system, that Jeremiah prophesied about.
Jer. 23: 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. 17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that "walketh after the imagination of his own heart", (Not the Good Works God before ordained that we should walk in them) No evil shall come upon you.
Jesus said "many" Shall be Deceived by them.
It's the "way of this world" and has been around since Eve was deceived by the "other voice" in the garden that "professed to know God". The Good News is that there is another way, but it takes belief in God, AKA "Faith". A Faith that is not of this world. And those who adopt this Faith will be ridiculed, labeled, persecuted and scorned and despised by the promoters of this world's religious businesses. As a result, the Path walked on and promoted by Jesus, because it is voluntary doesn't have "many" walking it.
Luke 18: 7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? 8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, "shall he find faith on the earth"?
Civic, this is why I am so cautious of your sermons and have come to be very careful to Take Heed of the religious philosophies you adopt and promote. Why would you omit such an important Biblical Fact, that Nicodemus was a preacher of the religious "sect of the Pharisees"?
John 1: 1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a "ruler of the Jews":
HE promoted the "Pharisees" view of Salvation, in the same way you promote the "Armenian" view of Salvation, and your religious opponents promote "Calvins" view of Salvation, or the Pope promotes the Catholic view of Salvation.
There were Jews who believed Moses and the Prophets, ( Zacharias, Simeon, The Wise Men and Anna) unlike the Pharisees like Nicodemus, who had the Oracles of God, but didn't believe Moses and the Prophets. And Zacharias, Simeon, The Wise Men and Anna all knew of God's Salvation, and the Messiah who would bring it, even before Jesus was even born. This seems like a significant Biblical Truth regarding the Salvation of God. but perhaps irrelevant to the salvation promoted by the Armenian.
It seems relevant to accept that the religious sect of the Pharisees and others who "Professed to God" but were disobedient to God, and did not believe Moses and the Prophets didn't know the truth about God's salvation and about being "Born Again", like Abraham and Zacharias, while Zacharias and Simeon, who did believe Moses and the Prophets, and were obedient to God, did know about God's Salvation.
Did these Faithful people not separate themselves from the religious traditions and philosophies promoted by the religious sect of the Pharisees like Nicodemus, that caused those who adopted them to "Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep their own tradition".? Can you even imagine how Zacharias was scorned and ridiculed and mocked by the rulers of the religious sect of the Pharisees, for his declaration and Faith in God that this unborn baby as the Prophesied Messiah?
Jesus Himself said "Salvation is of the Jews"!!! Where is this important teaching of the Jesus "of the Bible" concerning the "New Man" we are to Put on in order to partake of God's Salvation, in your sermon?
Where is your mention or even curiosity of why the Pharisee ruler called Nicodemus, didn't know that like Abraham, he must leave his old life of religion, rebellion and disobedience to God, and be "born again" a New Man, like Abraham, Zacharias and Elizebeth who repented and "Yielded themselves to God" as Paul teaches, and became "righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless", or as Paul would call them, "Servants of God's Righteousness".
Matt. 5: 20 For I say unto you, That except "your" righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
It's not about your religious sect and philosophies VS the religious sect of the Calvinists and their religious philosophies Civic. It's about obedience to God VS disobedience to God. At least according to the Jesus "of the Bible".
civic
Well-known member
You missed Jesus point in John 3 with the Atonement ,salvation and the kingdom.
Jesus clearly taught it was by FAITH in John 3:16-18. Faith gets you in and unbelief keeps you out.
Yes, of course. I don't think anyone here would disagree with that. But the question is what is it that one must be obedient to God. And knowing that there is none who is perfectly obedient to God, then what is next?
I agree with that. However, the question becomes, what constitutes that faith; what is the belief that gets you in? Is what you believe that the Calvinist posits or that the Arminian posits sufficient to get you in? Does it matter which or something in between or different altogether? Is there an identifiable content for the faith necessary to get you in?
With all of that I think the Calvinist will disagree with what you have said there. He will tell you that, counter to what seems to be an obvious meaning for John 3:16-18, it is not faith that gets you in. Rather it is God that gets you in and once you are in then faith is given to you. I think that is nuts, but who am I to judge? Or perhaps I am misunderstanding what the Calvinist thinks about John 3:16-18.
God is the judge, not religious man, in my understanding While it is true all men, except Jesus, have sinned, it is not true that a man cannot be obedient to God, as the Scriptures teach us about David, Noah, Abraham, Caleb, Joshua, Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, the Wise Men, and so on.
Perfection, as defined by God and commanded by Jesus is the goal. Yes, there will be "other voices" in the garden God placed us in, who "profess to know God" and who "call Jesus Lord, Lord", who will try and convince us God lied to us and commanded a "way of the Lord" that is not possible to follow. "Many" even call God's instruction in righteousness a "Yoke of Bondage" and beggarly elements of this world, twisting Scriptures to deceive the simple. But Jesus Himself warned us to "Take Heed" we are not deceived by these "many" who come in His Name.
It is written that God knows we need to know what to eat, what to drink, what knowledge to clothe ourselves in. Jesus said to "Seek ye First the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness", and all these things will be added to us.
In my experience there is no "what is next" my friend. It is a lifetime commitment, a "Way of Life" to grow in the wisdom, righteousness and knowledge of God. To remove the beams in our own eyes. As Paul teaches;
Romans 2: 7 To them who by "patient continuance" in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
For me, everything changed when I followed the Christs instruction to not adopt this world's religious traditions and teaching. And after studying apart from their influence, the Scriptures came alive for me.
One thing that helped with the question you asked, was the reality of my existence in this world God placed me in. I am given power by God in this world to choose and do things, but only in the moment. I cannot go back even ten minutes into the past and "do" anything. Nor can I go into the future and "do" anything. I only have power today, right now. And right now, I doubt that either you or I are transgressing God's Commandments. I have sinned in the past, and may sin in the future, but in the moment, right now I can choose not to transgress God's Commandments. I have many "nows" throughout the day in which to make this choice. If I keep God's Word in my mind and in my heart, or as it is called in the bible, "The mind that was in Christ", this is how we can endure to the end, as Jesus speaks to. This is God's definition of "Faith".
This is how Paul lived.
Phil. 3: 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, "if that I may apprehend" that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count "not" myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, (My next "Now") 14 I "press toward the mark" for the prize of the high calling of God (That is) in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
This world religions, or as it was in Eve's time, "The other voice" in the garden, are there to prove us, in my view, whether we will walk in the "Good works" God before ordained that we should walk in them, or not. Jesus warns about them and tells us not to be like unto them.
But religion is big money, and they have a lot of influence, and they promote very seductive philosophies which creates a broad path followed by the masses and have been around since before the Tower of Babel.
I don't believe a man should go to them for instruction in righteousness, or adopt their religious traditions, high days and judgments, or their images of God they have created, based on what the Jesus of the Bible actually teaches, given we have the Oracles of God in our own homes now and have been instructed by Jesus Himself to "Live by" the Words of God contained therein.
But this would mean that mankind doesn't need all these religious businesses to be known of Jesus. This, of course, is not an acceptable marketing strategy to grow their religious business which can only survive and grow by converting contributing members to it.
Certainly, not a popular understanding with the promoters of these religious sects. But something for men seeking God's Truth should consider, in my view.
