The Calvinists misunderstanding of the New Birth as taught by Jesus to Nicodemus

[Kampioen]

Man by nature doesnt seek God and cant! Rom3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. God must give a new nature, regeneration, thats Grace

It doesn't say God has to regenerate them to make them seek.

God could just as easily plain make them seek. They just won't seek if left to themselves.

But God's prevenient grace synergistically encourages the unsaved to seek (Acts 1:26), and then some might seek and find (vs 27).

Acts 17:26 (KJV) And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Acts 17:27 (KJV) That they should *seek* the Lord,
**if haply they might feel after him, and find him**, though he be not far from every one of us:

Acts 16:30 (KJV) And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

Acts 16:31 (KJV) And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

 

[brightfame52]

@Kampioen

It doesn't say God has to regenerate them to make them seek.

Yeah but its reasonably implied, else man doesnt do it, which it clearly says. Rom3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

 

[brightfame52]

@Kampioen

God could just as easily plain make them seek. They just won't seek if left to themselves.

He does when He regenerates them and puts His Spirit in them and a new heart, which is all grace Ezk 36:26-27

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Thats hoe He makes them seek ! He causes them to seek Him with with the new heart after removing the dead stony heart.

 

[Jim]

@Kampioen



He does when He regenerates them and puts His Spirit in them and a new heart, which is all grace Ezk 36:26-27

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Thats hoe He makes them seek ! He causes them to seek Him with with the new heart after removing the dead stony heart.

There is nothing in Ezekiel 36:26-27 about regeneration. One more time you are inserting your own false beliefs into the scriptures.

Rev 22:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book,

 

[brightfame52]

@Jim

There is nothing in Ezekiel 36:26-27 about regeneration

There is nothing in Ezek 36:26-27 about regeneration to you, you cant see it

 

[Kampioen]

He does when He regenerates them and puts His Spirit in them and a new heart, which is all grace Ezk 36:26-27

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Thats hoe He makes them seek ! He causes them to seek Him with with the new heart after removing the dead stony heart.

You are talking about a different type of seeking ie for more of God that an already righteous man has.

But a lost person seeking for God at all is a different type of seeking ie by prevenient grace.

Acts 16:30 (KJV) And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

Acts 17:27 (KJV) That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

God's prevenient grace sets the stage and influence but not the choice (vs 27). ...

Acts 17:26 (KJV) And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Acts 17:27 (KJV) That they should seek the Lord, if *haply* they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

 

[brightfame52]

@Kampioen

You are talking about a different type of seeking

No Im not,how you going to tell me what Im talking about, when Im telling you what Im talking about ?

 

[civic]

You are talking about a different type of seeking ie for more of God that an already righteous man has.

But a lost person seeking for God at all is a different type of seeking ie by prevenient grace.

Acts 16:30 (KJV) And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

Acts 17:27 (KJV) That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

God's prevenient grace sets the stage and influence but not the choice (vs 27). ...

Acts 17:26 (KJV) And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Acts 17:27 (KJV) That they should seek the Lord, if *haply* they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

ditto

 

[Jim]

@Jim



There is nothing in Ezek 36:26-27 about regeneration to you, you cant see it

Only because it isn't there.

 

[charismaticlady]

@Kampioen



He does when He regenerates them and puts His Spirit in them and a new heart, which is all grace Ezk 36:26-27

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Thats hoe He makes them seek ! He causes them to seek Him with with the new heart after removing the dead stony heart.

BF, I understand what you are saying. But what brought me to God was my sin. I couldn't stop and I cried out to God to make me stop somehow, and He did. That was the first prayer in my life that God answered, and I was shocked. Up to then I wondered if God even existed! But I was still a sinner.

Two weeks later I was filled with the Spirit and cleansed of all desire to sin. That was regeneration.

 

[charismaticlady]

ditto

I had to look up prevenient grace. "Grace that precedes." Do you have a scripture for that? I experienced it, but I'd still like a scripture.

 

[civic]

I had to look up prevenient grace. "Grace that precedes." Do you have a scripture for that? I experienced it, but I'd still like a scripture.

the assumption is God moves first by His grace in salvation. Its an act of grace for the Spirit to draw, convict mankind to respond to the call of the gospel- the hearing of the gospel is an act of grace as well.

 

[charismaticlady]

the assumption is God moves first by His grace in salvation. Its an act of grace for the Spirit to draw, convict mankind to respond to the call of the gospel- the hearing of the gospel is an act of grace as well.

As you know I was going to church all my life up to 30 years old when I was finally born again of the Spirit. It took a massive sin to take me over the final step to being born again of the Spirit.

 

[brightfame52]

Only because it isn't there.

Its there but you cant see it.

 

[Jim]

Its there but you cant see it.

Its there but you cant see it.

It's there only in your imagination.

 

[brightfame52]

It's there only in your imagination.

Too bad its not in your imagination,because its Truth

 

[Jim]

Too bad its not in your imagination,because its Truth

It is too bad that you think your imagination is truth; it isn't.

 

[brightfame52]

It is too bad that you think your imagination is truth; it isn't.

No I believe Truth has enlightened my mind/imagination, too bad for you

 

[civic]

It is too bad that you think your imagination is truth; it isn't.

ditto

 

[civic]

Only because it isn't there.

yes he adds to scripture and also subtracts from scripture to support the many heresies.