The Calvinists eisegesis of John 6:55

[atpollard]

Your problem is it was believers of God, those who were his, that were given to Christ

John 17:6–9 (LEB) — 6 “I have revealed your name to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me, and they have kept your word. 7 Now they understand that all the things that you have given me are from you, 8 because the words that you gave to me I have given to them, and they received them and know truly that I have come from you, and they have believed that you have sent me. 9 I am asking on behalf of them. I am not asking on behalf of the world, but on behalf of those whom you have given me, because they are yours,

Not unbelievers of God

Not MY problem ... I am not the one quoting the OT (Deuteronomy 30) as proof that all men have the innate power to obey when nobody does obey except those the FATHER gives (draws in John 6:44) to the Son.

 

[TomL]

Not MY problem ... I am not the one quoting the OT (Deuteronomy 30) as proof that all men have the innate power to obey when nobody does obey except those the FATHER gives (draws in John 6:44) to the Son.

Um, yes, it is your problem.

The Old Testament shows men were capable of believing God

Deuteronomy 30:11–20 (LEB) — 11 “For this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too wonderful for you, and it is not too far from you. 12 It is not in the heavens so that you might say, ‘Who will go up for us to the heavens and get it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 13 And it is not beyond the sea, so that you might say, ‘Who will cross for us to the other side of the sea and take it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you, even in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may do it. 15 “See, I am setting before you today life and prosperity and death and disaster; 16 what I am commanding you today is to love Yahweh your God by going in his ways and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his regulations, and then you will live, and you will become numerous, and Yahweh your God will bless you in the land where you are going. 17 However, if your heart turns aside and you do not listen and you are lured away and you bow down to other gods and you serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you will certainly perish; you will not extend your time on the land that you are crossing the Jordan to go there to take possession of it. 19 I invoke as a witness against you today the heaven and the earth: life and death I have set before you, blessing and curse. So choose life, so that you may live, you and your offspring, 20 by loving Yahweh your God by listening to his voice and by clinging to him, for he is your life and the length of your days in order for you to live on the land that Yahweh swore to your ancestors, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give to them.”

Those who were God's were given to Jesus

They heeded the word of God concerning the son

John 17:6 (LEB) — 6 “I have revealed your name to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me, and they have kept your word.

John 6:45 (LEB) — 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who hears from the Father and learns comes to me.

Those who learn from him come to Jesus.

John 12:44 (LEB) — 44 But Jesus cried out and said, “The one who believes in me does not believe in me, but in the one who sent me,

 

[TomL]

So does "scripture":

• John 6:44 [ESV] No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

However, it is really more a matter of WILL NOT than CANNOT:

• John 3:19-20 [ESV] And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.
• Romans 1:18-22 [ESV] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools,
• Romans 3:10-11 [ESV] as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God."

If men were ABLE, then why did the "chosen nation" (Israel) fail so completely over and over?
The OT is not a story of SUCCESS after SUCCESS of men obeying God.

• Matthew 23:37 [ESV] "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!"
• Luke 11:47-52 [ESV] Woe to you! For you build the tombs of the prophets whom your fathers killed. So you are witnesses and you consent to the deeds of your fathers, for they killed them, and you build their tombs. Therefore also the Wisdom of God said, 'I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and persecute,' so that the blood of all the prophets, shed from the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, it will be required of this generation. Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter yourselves, and you hindered those who were entering."

Um all Israel did not

Surely you know of the remnant who did come to Christ

And the famous Old Testament saints who honored and obeyed, and believed in Yahweh.

 

[Selah]

Twisted indeed

Arrghh.

 

[Presby02]

Sorry, but Calvinism states no one can.

however scripture indicates



God has pleasure in men repenting, and scripture shows man can repent.

Enoch pleased God

Hebrews 11:5–6 (LEB) — 5 By faith Enoch was taken up, so that he did not experience death, and he was not found, because God took him up. For before his removal, he had been approved as having been pleasing to God. 6 Now without faith it is impossible to please him, for the one who approaches God must believe that he exists and is a rewarder of those who seek him.

Genesis 6:9 (LEB) — 9 These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, without defect in his generations. Noah walked with God.

Job 1:8 (LEB) — 8 So Yahweh said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? Indeed, there is no one like him on the earth—a blameless man and upright and God-fearing and turning away from evil.”

Luke 1:5–6 (LEB) — 5 It happened that in the days of Herod, king of Judea, there was a certain priest, Zechariah by name, of the division of Abijah. And he had a wife from the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. 6 And they were both righteous in the sight of God, living blamelessly in all the commandments and regulations of the Lord.

Luke 1:13–17 (LEB) — 13 But the angel said to him, “Do not be afraid, Zechariah, because your prayer has been heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you will call his name John. 14 And you will experience joy and exultation, and many will rejoice at his birth. 15 For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and he must never drink wine or beer, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while he is still in his mother’s womb. 16 And he will turn many of the sons of Israel to the Lord their God. 17 And he will go on before him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous, to prepare for the Lord a people made ready.”

Acts 10:1–4 (LEB) — 1 Now there was a certain man in Caesarea named Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian Cohort, 2 devout and fearing God together with all his household, doing many charitable deeds for the people and praying to God continually. 3 About the ninth hour of the day, he saw clearly in a vision an angel of God coming to him and saying to him, “Cornelius.” 4 And he stared at him and became terrified and said, “What is it, Lord?” And he said to him, “Your prayers and your charitable deeds have gone up for a memorial offering before God.

Exodus 33:17 (LEB) — 17 And Yahweh said to Moses, “Also I will do this thing that you have spoken, because you have found favor in my eyes and I have known you by name.”

Genesis 7:1 (LEB) — 1 Then Yahweh said to Noah, “Go—you and all your household—into the ark, for I have seen you are righteous before me in this generation.

Psalm 18:19–20 (LEB) — 19 So he brought me out to a spacious place. He delivered me because he delighted in me. 20 Yahweh has rewarded me according to my righteousness; According to the cleanness of my hands he has repaid me.

Acts 7:44–48 (LEB) — 44 The tabernacle of the testimony belonged to our fathers in the wilderness, just as the one who spoke to Moses directed him to make it according to the design that he had seen, 45 and which, after receiving it in turn, our fathers brought in with Joshua when they dispossessed the nations that God drove out from the presence of our fathers, until the days of David, 46 who found favor in the sight of God and asked to find a habitation for the God of Jacob. 47 But Solomon built a house for him. 48 But the Most High does not live in houses made by human hands, just as the prophet says,

2 Chronicles 31:20–21 (LEB) — 20 And Hezekiah did according to this throughout all Judah. And he did what is good and what is right and what is faithful before Yahweh his God. 21 And in every work that he began in the service of the house of God or with respect to the law and the commandment to seek his God, he did with all his heart, and he prospered.

Malachi 3:16–18 (LEB) — 16 Then those who revered Yahweh spoke with one another. And Yahweh listened attentively and heard, and a scroll of remembrance was written before him of those who revere Yahweh and ponder his name. 17 “They will be mine,” says Yahweh of hosts, “on the day that I am acting, my treasured possession. I will have compassion on them as a man has compassion on his son who serves him. 18 You will return and see the difference between the righteous and the wicked, between the one who serves God and the one who does not serve him.

No one can morally. You have the natural ability but not the moral ability.

What is the difference between natural and moral ability?

 

[Presby02]

Your problem is it was believers of God, those who were his, that were given to Christ

John 17:6–9 (LEB) — 6 “I have revealed your name to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me, and they have kept your word. 7 Now they understand that all the things that you have given me are from you, 8 because the words that you gave to me I have given to them, and they received them and know truly that I have come from you, and they have believed that you have sent me. 9 I am asking on behalf of them. I am not asking on behalf of the world, but on behalf of those whom you have given me, because they are yours,

Not unbelievers of God

"They were yours", when were they His? And when ate they given to the Son?

 

[atpollard]

Um all Israel did not

Surely you know of the remnant who did come to Christ

And the famous Old Testament saints who honored and obeyed, and believed in Yahweh.

List 12 people that HEARD Moses speak the words in Deuteronomy 30 and were given to Jesus.

You keep conflating the message given to people in the OT that demonstrated their INABILITY to obey with the WORK of GOD in the NT to empower people to be saved - thus you miss the point: "With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God." [Mark 10:27]

Like they say in Sunday School: JESUS SAVES!

 

[TomL]

"They were yours", when were they His? And when ate they given to the Son?

Your problem is it was believers of God, those who were his, that were given to Christ

John 17:6–9 (LEB) — 6 “I have revealed your name to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me, and they have kept your word. 7 Now they understand that all the things that you have given me are from you, 8 because the words that you gave to me I have given to them, and they received them and know truly that I have come from you, and they have believed that you have sent me. 9 I am asking on behalf of them. I am not asking on behalf of the world, but on behalf of those whom you have given me, because they are yours,

Not unbelievers of God

Before they were Christ's, they were his.

 

[TomL]

List 12 people that HEARD Moses speak the words in Deuteronomy 30 and were given to Jesus.

You keep conflating the message given to people in the OT that demonstrated their INABILITY to obey with the WORK of GOD in the NT to empower people to be saved - thus you miss the point: "With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God." [Mark 10:27]

Like they say in Sunday School: JESUS SAVES!

This clearly speaks of ability

Deuteronomy 30:11–20 (LEB) — 11 “For this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too wonderful for you, and it is not too far from you. 12 It is not in the heavens so that you might say, ‘Who will go up for us to the heavens and get it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 13 And it is not beyond the sea, so that you might say, ‘Who will cross for us to the other side of the sea and take it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you, even in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may do it. 15 “See, I am setting before you today life and prosperity and death and disaster; 16 what I am commanding you today is to love Yahweh your God by going in his ways and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his regulations, and then you will live, and you will become numerous, and Yahweh your God will bless you in the land where you are going. 17 However, if your heart turns aside and you do not listen and you are lured away and you bow down to other gods and you serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you will certainly perish; you will not extend your time on the land that you are crossing the Jordan to go there to take possession of it. 19 I invoke as a witness against you today the heaven and the earth: life and death I have set before you, blessing and curse. So choose life, so that you may live, you and your offspring, 20 by loving Yahweh your God by listening to his voice and by clinging to him, for he is your life and the length of your days in order for you to live on the land that Yahweh swore to your ancestors, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give to them.”

And the actual saving act is spoken of in Mark 10:27, not the act of believing.

No one holds that man makes his own salvation. Jesus saves those that believe.

Man believes and Jesus saves

 

[TomL]

No one can morally. You have the natural ability but not the moral ability.

What is the difference between natural and moral ability?

If no human can do something, then humanity has no natural ability to do it.

You need to stop misdefining natural ability.

In any case, your theology is refuted by

Deuteronomy 30:11–31:1 (LEB) — 11 “For this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too wonderful for you, and it is not too far from you. 12 It is not in the heavens so that you might say, ‘Who will go up for us to the heavens and get it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 13 And it is not beyond the sea, so that you might say, ‘Who will cross for us to the other side of the sea and take it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you, even in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may do it. 15 “See, I am setting before you today life and prosperity and death and disaster; 16 what I am commanding you today is to love Yahweh your God by going in his ways and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his regulations, and then you will live, and you will become numerous, and Yahweh your God will bless you in the land where you are going. 17 However, if your heart turns aside and you do not listen and you are lured away and you bow down to other gods and you serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you will certainly perish; you will not extend your time on the land that you are crossing the Jordan to go there to take possession of it. 19 I invoke as a witness against you today the heaven and the earth: life and death I have set before you, blessing and curse. So choose life, so that you may live, you and your offspring, 20 by loving Yahweh your God by listening to his voice and by clinging to him, for he is your life and the length of your days in order for you to live on the land that Yahweh swore to your ancestors, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give to them.”

 

[TomL]

No one can morally. You have the natural ability but not the moral ability.

What is the difference between natural and moral ability?

Deuteronomy 30:11–31:1 (LEB) — 11 “For this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too wonderful for you, and it is not too far from you. 12 It is not in the heavens so that you might say, ‘Who will go up for us to the heavens and get it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 13 And it is not beyond the sea, so that you might say, ‘Who will cross for us to the other side of the sea and take it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you, even in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may do it. 15 “See, I am setting before you today life and prosperity and death and disaster; 16 what I am commanding you today is to love Yahweh your God by going in his ways and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his regulations, and then you will live, and you will become numerous, and Yahweh your God will bless you in the land where you are going. 17 However, if your heart turns aside and you do not listen and you are lured away and you bow down to other gods and you serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you will certainly perish; you will not extend your time on the land that you are crossing the Jordan to go there to take possession of it. 19 I invoke as a witness against you today the heaven and the earth: life and death I have set before you, blessing and curse. So choose life, so that you may live, you and your offspring, 20 by loving Yahweh your God by listening to his voice and by clinging to him, for he is your life and the length of your days in order for you to live on the land that Yahweh swore to your ancestors, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give to them.”

 

[Selah]

Your problem is it was believers of God, those who were his, that were given to Christ

absolutely

 

[Selah]

absolutely

…to those who love God.

Romans 8:28-30 (NKJV) 28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to [His] purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined [to be] conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

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