The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus

Pancho Frijoles said:
Thanks for the thorough post. Civic.
I’m not understanding WHEN, in your opinion, God revealed Himself not as a Person but as an Assembly or Collective of Three persons.
Should I understand from your post that by the time the Book of Genesis was written? Or at some point during the second century AD when the apostles had died and the Fathers of the Church like Ireneus lived?
@Fred seems to believe that apostles didn't have this revelation yet in the days following Pentecost, as the were still thinking in God as a Person who is not Jesus Christ. What do you think?
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I never asserted that.
 
Pancho Frijoles said:
So God can subject to another Being? To Whom?
No, TomL. Subjection is not compatible with deity.
That is why God can make everyone subject to Christ, EXCEPT God Himself.

But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward, those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end when He will deliver up the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He will reign until He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For He “has put all things under His feet.”[a]But when He says, “all things are put under Him,” it is revealed that He, who has put all things under Him, is the exception. 28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
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In the bible the son is subjected to the Father yet both are called God
 
101G said:
No mystery, just IGNORANCE on one's part in understanding "Diversity" of the ECHAD.

well now, is not the Land that you stand on flat? or are you tilting? .... (SMILE), .... lol, lol, lol, got to get a laugh in there.

101G.
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An Echad is not a singular unity but a compound one

The key for both Jews and Christians to learn the correct concept of our God is the word echad. Echad is the Hebrew word for one, but more precisely it means a single entity but made up of more than one part. There is another Hebrew word from the same root – Yachid which means single.
 
TomL said:
Hiding from the reality
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@Runningman continues to be true to his name by running away from statements he cannot prove even though he's the one who says them. This was a typical case in point where I responded to his false statement about prayer and once again he runs away from discussing it further. This is typical of cultists and heretics.
 
synergy said:
@Runningman continues to be true to his name by running away from statements he cannot prove even though he's the one who says them. This was a typical case in point where I responded to his false statement about prayer and once again he runs away from discussing it further. This is typical of cultists and heretics.
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He has denied obvious biblical truths
 
synergy said:
@Runningman continues to be true to his name by running away from statements he cannot prove even though he's the one who says them. This was a typical case in point where I responded to his false statement about prayer and once again he runs away from discussing it further. This is typical of cultists and heretics.
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When you can't even directly address me, it makes it look like you're a coward.
 
Runningman said:
Paul isn't a Trinitarian. You all are scrambling to re-write what he plainly said.
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You present no evidence of that

Titus 2:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
 
TomL said:
You present no evidence of that

Titus 2:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
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Thank you for quoting the KJV instead of the versions that remove the definite "the" article before Great God. Grammatically, the KJV version shows God and Jesus as two different persons.

Paul begins most of his letters similar to the below. He doesn't believe God is Jesus. It's very clear. He does not talk like a Trinitarian.

All KJV:

Romans 1
7To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 1
3Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 1
2Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 1
3Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,

Ephesians 1
2Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 1
2Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1
2To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 1
1Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 1
2Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 1
2Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

2 Timothy 1
2To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

Titus 1
4To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

Philemon 1
3Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Runningman said:
On it's own ground, 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 describes Jesus as having a temporary reign, not being above God, and then being made subject to God. Means Jesus isn't God. Done. Notice I didn't need some long, drawn out, convoluted, private interpretation to explain what it says. I could just quote the passage, walk away, and nothing would change what it already says. It soundly and completely affirms the Unitarian position. It doesn't help the Oneness position though.
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GINOLJC, to all.
First, 101G is not a ONENESS as the UPIC, and as a few others are. no. 101G is a Diversified Oneness. BIG difference. now the Lord Jesus is God almighty All by himself. in a diversified state, he is in the position to carry out his OWN WILL. (so you either did not read or understood 101G post on "The Subjection of Christ" post #430. and no, neither is 101G Unitarian. once again, 101G is "Diversified Oneness".

101G.
 
Fred said:
That doesn't follow your ludicrous affirmation.

Now you have two of them.
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Jesus never said he is seeking worship, but the Father is.

John 4
21“Believe Me, woman,” Jesus replied, “a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22You worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”
 
TomL said:
An Echad is not a singular unity but a compound one
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your first mistake of the day. a compound unity is already a plurality before it is a UNITY. note the term COMPOUND, means, "a thing that is composed of two or more separate elements"; a mixture: NOW a Unity, "he state of being united or joined as a whole" so before you get a UNITY you already have a plurality already. so you have a double unity. other words Polytheism.

check your definitions.

101G
 
Runningman said:
Jesus never said he is seeking worship, but the Father is.

John 4
21“Believe Me, woman,” Jesus replied, “a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22You worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”
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Worship the Father correct..... now the CREATOR is the Father correct... now this Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

Notice he was "ALONE", and "BY HIMSELF" when he "MADE ALL THINGS". now this, John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:2 "The same was in the beginning with God." John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

is this the same one person in Isaiah 44:24 who "MADE ALL THINGS", YES or NO?

101G
 

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