The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus

[Jay]

Ok, but the other men had the power to forgive sins too. Still haven't found anything that singles Jesus out as God.

If you read John 20:23 it is translated more literally as “if you forgive the sins of any, they have already been forgiven [by God].”

John 20:23 sounds startling at first: “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.” This can be a difficult verse because it almost makes it sound like Jesus is giving us the authority to forgive sins. But that can’t be true.

So, if this phrase doesn’t mean that we have the authority to forgive sins, what does it mean? Well… this is a little nerdy, so hang with me for a minute: (v. 23) the expression “if you forgive someone’s sins, they are forgiven” is in the perfect-tense verbs in Greek, which means you could translate that phrase as: “they have already been forgiven.”

You could really read that statement as, “If you forgive any one’s sins they have (already) been forgiven.” In other words, Jesus was saying that Peter and the Apostles were given the ability to recognize when God had saved someone, and the authority to validate their acceptance of it, assuring those new Gentile believers, when they believed, that they were indeed fully included in the family of God. The Apostles could recognize when someone’s sins were forgiven, and make it official.

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

101G agree, "believe what is written", with understanding in the Wisdom of God. May 101G ask you a question. these two verses.

Verse #1. John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." HIM here is the Word in John 1:1 who is God.

Verse #2. Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

'is this the same "ONE" PERSON in both Scriptures that "MADE ALL THINGS?" yes or no.

in much GL.

101G.

The WORD IN JOHN one verse one
IF WE BOTHER TO KEEP READING became flesh . SO YEAH its the SAME WORD . unless ya think we have two gods and two words .
Pretty clear to those who desire to Beleive truth rather than to try and twist truth to make what they desire to beleive is truth , to be truth .
PRETTY clear what is wrote in JOHN . GOD IS HIS WORD and THAT THERE WORD became FLESH . MEANING JESUS THE CHRIST friend .
pretty clear it is . No wonder even paul said HE created all things .
HOW did GOD create . HE SPOKE .

 

[Runningman]

If you read John 20:23 it is translated more literally as “if you forgive the sins of any, they have already been forgiven [by God].”

John 20:23 sounds startling at first: “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.” This can be a difficult verse because it almost makes it sound like Jesus is giving us the authority to forgive sins. But that can’t be true.

So, if this phrase doesn’t mean that we have the authority to forgive sins, what does it mean? Well… this is a little nerdy, so hang with me for a minute: (v. 23) the expression “if you forgive someone’s sins, they are forgiven” is in the perfect-tense verbs in Greek, which means you could translate that phrase as: “they have already been forgiven.”

You could really read that statement as, “If you forgive any one’s sins they have (already) been forgiven.” In other words, Jesus was saying that Peter and the Apostles were given the ability to recognize when God had saved someone, and the authority to validate their acceptance of it, assuring those new Gentile believers, when they believed, that they were indeed fully included in the family of God. The Apostles could recognize when someone’s sins were forgiven, and make it official.

I don't agree with that interpretation because it contains a contradiction. “If you forgive the sins of any, they have already been forgiven [by God].” begins as a conditional statement. It states the condition, but the conclusion doesn't follow from its premise. How can they already be forgiven if the first condition is not met and why bother telling them the condition if they don't actually have any sway over forgiveness of sins? I believe Jesus and the apostles were given authority by God to forgive sins and they likely believed they could continue doing this in the early church based on the evidence. How about what James said?

James 5
15And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

 

[synergy]

Jesus didn't say anything about being the I am in John 8:24.

Jesus clearly declared "that I AM" in John 8:24. You are denying that fact.

(John 8:24) Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins.

He said if you don't believe he is who he said he is you will die in your sins. So far it seems you don't believe he is who he said he is.

And who did Jesus say he is? He said "that I AM". Carry on with your hallucinations if your imaginary world makes you feel better.

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Jesus clearly declared "that I AM" in John 8:24. You are denying that fact.

(John 8:24) Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins.

And who did Jesus say he is? He said "that I AM". Carry on with your hallucinations if your imaginary world makes you feel better.

And stephen calling UPON GOD and saying LORD JESUS recieve my Spirit ...................................................................................

 

[synergy]

You stepped right in that one. The Father said it in Exodus.

Exodus 3
14And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

You stepped right into that one. The Person who appeared to Moses could not have been the Father because no one has seen the Father except for Christ (John 6:46). So it was the Preincarnate Christ who appeared, since whoever sees Jesus sees the Father (John 14:9). That perfectly aligns with the fact that Jesus called himself "I AM" in John 8:24 and allows Ex 3:14 to prove that Jesus is God.

Spend some time in the Book of John and your Unitarian fairy tales will be totally obliterated.

 

[Runningman]

Jesus clearly declared "that I AM" in John 8:24. You are denying that fact.

(John 8:24) Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins.

It required some digging, but this is a minority translation and is grammatically incorrect. Furthermore, "I am" is just a conjuction in english used to make the language more comprehensible. There is no claim to being God here. This is a very weak argument.

And who did Jesus say he is? He said "that I AM".

Verse?

Carry on with your hallucinations if your imaginary world makes you feel better.

I don't have a preference about what the Bible says, but it doesn't in any way equate Jesus to God. Your argument has already been refuted by the fact that Jesus is not the God of Abraham in Acts 3:13.

 

[Runningman]

You stepped right into that one. The Person who appeared to Moses could not have been the Father because no one has seen the Father except for Christ (John 6:46). So it was the Preincarnate Christ who appeared, since whoever sees Jesus sees the Father (John 14:9). That perfectly aligns with the fact that Jesus called himself "I AM" in John 8:24 and allows Ex 3:14 to prove that Jesus is God.

Spend some time in the Book of John and your Unitarian fairy tales will be totally obliterated.

So the God of Abraham (I AM THAT I AM) is His own Son? The Father is the Son's Father and the God of Abraham is YHWH who said He is alone God. I thought you were at least a Trinitarian, but you seem to have changed organizations. Are you now of the Oneness variety because you don't have a way out of what you just stepped in with that comment. By the very fact that Jesus is the Son of YHWH should be more than sufficient to confirm that the Father is YHWH who said I AM THAT I AM in Exodus 3:14. To further troubleshoot your misunderstanding, please see Psalm 2:7 and Psalm 110:1. YHWH and Jesus aren't the same person.

Acts 3
13The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus;

 

[Runningman]

And stephen calling UPON GOD and saying LORD JESUS recieve my Spirit ...................................................................................

But the Bible doesn't teach to pray to Jesus.

 

[Marvelloustime]

And stephen calling UPON GOD and saying LORD JESUS recieve my Spirit ...................................................................................

@TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY

 

[Runningman]

@TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
View attachment 1389

The word for God doesn't appear in the Greek of Acts 7:59.

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

The word for God doesn't appear in the Greek of Acts 7:59.

What you just typed word for GOD does not even make sense .
You must be believing that somehow the Word of GOD made mention of
in JOHN one verse one
That somehow Christ was not that Word . But it sure makes clear HE is .
And THE WORD became flesh . it didnt say oh and another word became flesh .
Plus i dont see what on earth you even mean by applying the verse 0ur sister brought .
Perhaps its time to slow down and return to scripture .
Now when you do , dont try and read it through your scholars or anothers view .
FIRST simply BELIEVE what is written . Now sure you might not understand it
BUT DONT twist it to suit what some man taught . Rather just keep reading every word
BELIEVING as a child it is truth . In time understanding will come .
How does one know that if what one has learned is contrary , It will twist the scrips my friend
and even other scrips will contradict what they thought was truth .
AN example .
I AM ALPHA and OMEGA , the FIRST and the last . JESUS himself says that from heaven .
Now as i said all things might not be understood at first
Like perhaps when thomas kneeled and said MY LORD and MY GOD
but even so , IT IS TRUTH . HAD JESUS not been , HE would have rebuked thomas for even saying so .
It is true i do not use the word trinity . I have never liked the word .
I prefer to use the word GOD HEAD as did paul .
AND IN him is ALL THE FULLNESS of the GODHEAD bodily .
The key is if we are having to twist things to fit our own beleif , WE have a problem . Just start over again .

 

[Runningman]

What you just typed word for GOD does not even make sense .
You must be believing that somehow the Word of GOD made mention of
in JOHN one verse one
That somehow Christ was not that Word . But it sure makes clear HE is .
And THE WORD became flesh . it didnt say oh and another word became flesh .
Plus i dont see what on earth you even mean by applying the verse 0ur sister brought .
Perhaps its time to slow down and return to scripture .
Now when you do , dont try and read it through your scholars or anothers view .
FIRST simply BELIEVE what is written . Now sure you might not understand it
BUT DONT twist it to suit what some man taught . Rather just keep reading every word
BELIEVING as a child it is truth . In time understanding will come .
How does one know that if what one has learned is contrary , It will twist the scrips my friend
and even other scrips will contradict what they thought was truth .
AN example .
I AM ALPHA and OMEGA , the FIRST and the last . JESUS himself says that from heaven .
Now as i said all things might not be understood at first
Like perhaps when thomas kneeled and said MY LORD and MY GOD
but even so , IT IS TRUTH . HAD JESUS not been , HE would have rebuked thomas for even saying so .
It is true i do not use the word trinity . I have never liked the word .
I prefer to use the word GOD HEAD as did paul .
AND IN him is ALL THE FULLNESS of the GODHEAD bodily .
The key is if we are having to twist things to fit our own beleif , WE have a problem . Just start over again .

I am not making an argument. I am simply stating a fact the in the Greek the word for God (theos for example) is not in Acts 7:59.

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

But the Bible doesn't teach to pray to Jesus.

Pray to the Father in Jesus name . yet we also see men calling upon the LORD JESUS .
WHo so ever shall call upon the NAME of the LORD shall be saved .
And now a word .
I have MANIFEST thy NAME .
GLORYIFY thy NAME . I have both glorified it and will Glorify it again . WHOM was GLORFIED . JESUS THE CHRIST .
Look i know things can be hard to be understood and specially at the first .
My advice is Pray to THE FATHER in JESUS NAME . but keep in mind men do call upon THE NAME CHRIST JESUS . as did stephen .
As far as the word trinity i see ZERO use for such a word . Rather Godhead is the word .

 

[civic]

Jesus didn't say anything about being the I am in John 8:24. He said if you don't believe he is who he said he is you will die in your sins. So far it seems you don't believe he is who he said he is.

yes and He said He was/is God which is why the Jews tried killing Him several times for claiming to be God and equal with God.

next fallact

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

I am not making an argument. I am simply stating a fact the in the Greek the word for God (theos for example) is not in Acts 7:59.

according to WHOM .. exactly YA GREEK SCHOLARS . and this is exactly what i been talking about all along .
EVERYONE saying we needs to learn greek , hebrew or whatever to know the bible .
Men sure seem to be a teaching some , some twisted greek these days to fit THEY OWN agenda.
Heck we have had adventist greek , jw greek , and all kinds of greek specially the koine greek group .
We dont need it . You really can learn the bible for oneself .
Case in point . this is exactly what i been warning about for a long time.
NOW its not like all the greek they teach you will be wrong . But some will be .
the parts that get in the way of their own beleifs .
Many keep thinking these great men of mighty renown scholars
were sent to teach us greek to better understand the bible . NO SIR
its all been a sham . THEY aint teaching us GREEK . oh maybe some , THEY TEACHING US HOW TO TWIST THE SCRIPS in some cases .

 

[Runningman]

Pray to the Father in Jesus name . yet we also see men calling upon the LORD JESUS .
WHo so ever shall call upon the NAME of the LORD shall be saved .
And now a word .
I have MANIFEST thy NAME .
GLORYIFY thy NAME . I have both glorified it and will Glorify it again . WHOM was GLORFIED . JESUS THE CHRIST .
Look i know things can be hard to be understood and specially at the first .
My advice is Pray to THE FATHER in JESUS NAME . but keep in mind men do call upon THE NAME CHRIST JESUS . as did stephen .
As far as the word trinity i see ZERO use for such a word . Rather Godhead is the word .

But the Lord who sent Jesus isn't Jesus. The LORD YHWH and Jesus aren't the same person.

Acts 3
19Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, 20and that he may send the Messiah, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus.

The Lord we call on to be saved in YHWH who is God and not the man Jesus.

Acts 2
21And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’
22“Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

yes and He said He was/is God which is why the Jews tried killing Him several times for claiming to be God and equal with God.

next fallact

go too and behold his version of greek . cause it just made claim to something .
This is why I BEEN warning the church for so long to not beleive men who say
YE HAVE NEED to KNOW this greek or hebrew so as ye can better UNDERSTAND the word .
ITS all been a trick my friend . ALL and WHO we ever NEEDED to learn the scrips , WAS GOD , IS HIS SPIRIT .
while its true they are not gonna twist all the greek , THEY WILL be twisting some of it .

 

[Runningman]

according to WHOM .. exactly YA GREEK SCHOLARS . and this is exactly what i been talking about all along .
EVERYONE saying we needs to learn greek , hebrew or whatever to know the bible .
Men sure seem to be a teaching some , some twisted greek these days to fit THEY OWN agenda.
Heck we have had adventist greek , jw greek , and all kinds of greek specially the koine greek group .
We dont need it . You really can learn the bible for oneself .
Case in point . this is exactly what i been warning about for a long time.
NOW its not like all the greek they teach you will be wrong . But some will be .
the parts that get in the way of their own beleifs .
Many keep thinking these great men of mighty renown scholars
were sent to teach us greek to better understand the bible . NO SIR
its all been a sham . THEY aint teaching us GREEK . oh maybe some , THEY TEACHING US HOW TO TWIST THE SCRIPS in some cases .

This doesn't require any Greek scholarship. I assume you know how to read and know what a lexicon is. Let me show you how the word God isn't in Acts 7:59. Here's a Bible Hub source: https://biblehub.com/lexicon/acts/7-59.htm

​

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

But the Lord who sent Jesus isn't Jesus. The LORD YHWH and Jesus aren't the same person.

Acts 3
19Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, 20and that he may send the Messiah, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus.

The Lord we call on to be saved in YHWH who is God and not the man Jesus.

Acts 2
21And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’
22“Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.

MY WORD shall not RETURN VOID .
GOD IS HIS WORD , HE IS HIS SPIRIT . and this is a fact friend . its one that might be hard to be understood at first
BUT IT IS A FACT .