The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus

atpollard said:
I said John 1 (the CHAPTER) not John 1:1 (the single VERSE). That you chose to ignore the CHAPTER to attack just the single verse extracted from context PROVES my point that your unbelief is your choice, not any lack of understanding or holding of a contrary belief. You are resolute in your determination to reject the testimony of the Word of God ... and will reap whatsoever you sow.

John 3:16-18 [NLT]
"For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him. There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God's one and only Son."​

Romans 1:18-22 [NLT]
But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness. They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God. Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools.​
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I don't ignore. I can't comment on a chapter unless I'm writing about the chapter myself since only then can I know what part of the chapter I should focus on. People often say to me well the whole Bible teaches the trinity and they never give a verse and I know it's because the Bible does not teach the trinity. The verses that are used to try to teach it are all taken out of context, or not understood how the words were used in the culture they were written in, or from a bad translation. There's no teaching on why God would come to the earth as a man. Such a concept accomplishes nothing.
 
mikesw said:
We ought to know that this is God's action of sending his Son in an action different from everything that has happened before. Jesus is not Dalai Lama, nor a Mohammed, nor a Baháʼu'lláh, nor Confucius -- all who have only a temporal earthly credentials. The biblical prophets were common men of the Israel tribes who spoke God's message to people, but this was indirect between God and man. However, their message pointed to the unique one sent from God and is God's son. Jesus came as prophesied and was not a middleman but was the Son. This was God's greatest plea to his people to repent. So he was not someone claiming status with no historical context but arrived in accord with prophecy. Only the gift of God's Son on the cross could make the death something beyond simple martyrdom. Instead of an incidental martyrdom, it was the love of God doing this for us. This should be learned in church gatherings. You can see this action in the analog of Luk 20:9-18.
It is surprising that you have studied so much but have missed the big picture.
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You gave no Scripture on why God would come to the earth as a man. Such a concept accomplishes nothing. Luke 20:9-18 is a parable and it has nothing to do why God would come to the earth as a man. The parable is more inline with a father sending his son. Not sending himself.
 
Peterlag said:
You gave no Scripture on why God would come to the earth as a man. Such a concept accomplishes nothing. Luke 20:9-18 is a parable and it has nothing to do why God would come to the earth as a man. The parable is more inline with a father sending his son. Not sending himself.
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Wow. you do not know the simplest stuff. We know God the Father and we know God the Son. So we see the Father is not sending the Father but is sending the Son. Plenty of verses saying that.
 
mikesw said:
Wow. you do not know the simplest stuff. We know God the Father and we know God the Son. So we see the Father is not sending the Father but is sending the Son. Plenty of verses saying that.
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The Bible teaches there is one God, the Father, and one Messiah and Lord, Jesus Christ, who is the divinely conceived Son of God. Jesus Christ is the fully human “Son of God” and not “God the Son.”
 
Peterlag said:
The Bible teaches there is one God, the Father, and one Messiah and Lord, Jesus Christ, who is the divinely conceived Son of God. Jesus Christ is the fully human “Son of God” and not “God the Son.”
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Uh. You are trying to teach that limitation, not the Bible. You get your ideas blocking understanding. I get that confusion. I had that for a period of time 10 years ago. You have failed to prove that limitation.
 
Peterlag said:
I don't ignore. I can't comment on a chapter unless I'm writing about the chapter myself since only then can I know what part of the chapter I should focus on. People often say to me well the whole Bible teaches the trinity and they never give a verse and I know it's because the Bible does not teach the trinity. The verses that are used to try to teach it are all taken out of context, or not understood how the words were used in the culture they were written in, or from a bad translation. There's no teaching on why God would come to the earth as a man. Such a concept accomplishes nothing.
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Here ya go:

John 1:1-18 [RSV]
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God; 3 all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
  • Pay close attention to the WORD: “in the beginning” (Genesis 1), with God, was God.
  • All things made through HIM (the word is a HIM).
  • In him (the word) was “life” and “light of men”.
  • REMEMBER ALL THIS IMPORTANT INFORMATION ABOUT “HIM/THE WORD”!

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came for testimony, to bear witness to the light, that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness to the light.
  • John sent from God = John the Baptist
  • John the Baptist was witness to “the light” (aka. HIM/WORD from above)
  • WHO DID JOHN THE BAPTIST PREPARE THE WAY FOR? WHO IS “THE LIGHT”?

9 The true light that enlightens every man was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world knew him not. 11 He came to his own home, and his own people received him not. 12 But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God; 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
  • True light = HE = in the world = world made through him … Good grief man, JOHN has just told you TWICE in 10 verses … do you think maybe he doesn’t want you to miss it!
  • So who does the WORLD not receive? Could it be, maybe … JESUS?
  • Who went to his home town and was rejected in the Gospel? Could it be, maybe … JESUS?
  • Who does John say has the only name by which men are saved? Could it be, maybe … JESUS?
  • Who is HE that has the power to make men Children of God? Could it be, maybe … JESUS?
  • That whole born not of blood or flesh, who said something like that to Nicodemus in John chapter 3? Could it be, maybe … JESUS?

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father. 15 (John bore witness to him, and cried, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me ranks before me, for he was before me.'") 16 And from his fulness have we all received, grace upon grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.
  • Did you remember the first 5 verses? So here we can now add another clue … the WORD (that was God) became flesh! BINGO! That is what we have been saying and You have been denying!
  • The Word (God) became flesh and dwelt among us. Could it be, maybe … JESUS?
  • FULL of grace, truth, “his glory” (the person had Glory, not God’s glory).
  • In case you still had some confusion, who was John the Baptist speaking of when he said those words and identified “the Word become flesh”? Could it be, maybe … JESUS?
  • Grace comes through Jesus Christ, from his fullness, the fullness of the WORD (God) become flesh.
  • No PERSON has seen God, but the SON is in the bosom of the FATHER! The Son is not a person, he is God Incarnate!
 
atpollard said:
Here ya go:

John 1:1-18 [RSV]
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God; 3 all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
  • Pay close attention to the WORD: “in the beginning” (Genesis 1), with God, was God.
  • All things made through HIM (the word is a HIM).
  • In him (the word) was “life” and “light of men”.
  • REMEMBER ALL THIS IMPORTANT INFORMATION ABOUT “HIM/THE WORD”!

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came for testimony, to bear witness to the light, that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness to the light.
  • John sent from God = John the Baptist
  • John the Baptist was witness to “the light” (aka. HIM/WORD from above)
  • WHO DID JOHN THE BAPTIST PREPARE THE WAY FOR? WHO IS “THE LIGHT”?

9 The true light that enlightens every man was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world knew him not. 11 He came to his own home, and his own people received him not. 12 But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God; 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
  • True light = HE = in the world = world made through him … Good grief man, JOHN has just told you TWICE in 10 verses … do you think maybe he doesn’t want you to miss it!
  • So who does the WORLD not receive? Could it be, maybe … JESUS?
  • Who went to his home town and was rejected in the Gospel? Could it be, maybe … JESUS?
  • Who does John say has the only name by which men are saved? Could it be, maybe … JESUS?
  • Who is HE that has the power to make men Children of God? Could it be, maybe … JESUS?
  • That whole born not of blood or flesh, who said something like that to Nicodemus in John chapter 3? Could it be, maybe … JESUS?

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father. 15 (John bore witness to him, and cried, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me ranks before me, for he was before me.'") 16 And from his fulness have we all received, grace upon grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.
  • Did you remember the first 5 verses? So here we can now add another clue … the WORD (that was God) became flesh! BINGO! That is what we have been saying and You have been denying!
  • The Word (God) became flesh and dwelt among us. Could it be, maybe … JESUS?
  • FULL of grace, truth, “his glory” (the person had Glory, not God’s glory).
  • In case you still had some confusion, who was John the Baptist speaking of when he said those words and identified “the Word become flesh”? Could it be, maybe … JESUS?
  • Grace comes through Jesus Christ, from his fullness, the fullness of the WORD (God) become flesh.
  • No PERSON has seen God, but the SON is in the bosom of the FATHER! The Son is not a person, he is God Incarnate!
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Not one verse that you quote above tells us...

1.) Why God would come to the earth as a man. Such a concept accomplishes nothing.

2.) Not one verse that you quoted above is a teaching... a whole paragraph or chapter teaching that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Jesus Christ not mentioned.

2 The same was in the beginning with God. Jesus Christ no mentioned.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Jesus Christ not mentioned.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. Jesus Christ not mentioned.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. Jesus Christ not mentioned.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. Jesus Christ not mentioned.

7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. Jesus Christ mentioned.

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. John mentioned. Not Jesus Christ.

There's no teaching here. Not even a sentence teaching that Jesus is God or that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God.
 
mikesw said:
Uh. You are trying to teach that limitation, not the Bible. You get your ideas blocking understanding. I get that confusion. I had that for a period of time 10 years ago. You have failed to prove that limitation.
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I'm not here to prove Jesus is not God. I'm only a messenger who testifies that the son of God does not mean God the son.
 
mikesw said:
ok. God had a plan and design for Jeremiah. However, in view of early posts, Jeremiah did not know his design before he was born. Consequently, this has no bearing on our discussion except as a distraction.

I think that was the only unanswered question. You still have to answer who Christ is, per the Unitarian misunderstanding. There isn't much of him left in what you proclaim in your Adoptionist view.
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The way your theology reads over all of these posts is that when others are spoken of as having been known before they were born you just explain it all away or spiritualize the concept. However, when Jesus is spoken of as having glory before the world was, you adopt a new interpretation. You have what is called a dogmatic interpretation of the Bible. It's riddled with inconsistencies. It's neither intuitive, scriptural, or found on the lips of what Jesus or the apostles taught. To make it even worse, you can't actually point to anything Jesus may have been saying or doing before his alleged incarnation. You really have no point.
 
Runningman said:
The way your theology reads over all of these posts is that when others are spoken of as having been known before they were born you just explain it all away or spiritualize the concept. However, when Jesus is spoken of as having glory before the world was, you adopt a new interpretation. You have what is called a dogmatic interpretation of the Bible. It's riddled with inconsistencies. It's neither intuitive, scriptural, or found on the lips of what Jesus or the apostles taught. To make it even worse, you can't actually point to anything Jesus may have been saying or doing before his alleged incarnation. You really have no point.
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If you cannot follow basic Bible logic, that is your problem. I shared the differences and it may be, as I noted about your analyses before, that you cannot understand the nuances of scripture. It is kind of bad that you keep pushing your heresy. I do get how people can temporarily fall into that error since I had done that just over 10 years ago. But the ideas behind that do not mesh with the rest of scripture.

Civic listed in a thread a bunch of verses pointing the pre-existence of Christ, your arguments have not been sufficient to disregard those passages.
 
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mikesw said:
Good you are not really sharing anything of any significance. So you are succeeding in not showing anything.
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I have since we have been conversing posted to you and others on here a whole bunch of Bible much of what could be considered some of the greatest biblical viewpoints in the world oh how Jesus is not God and how these little half verses that you post to try to say Jesus is God is just BS. And you have ignored all of it. You have denied all of it. You have refused to see it's great biblical truth. And then you say I post nothing.
 
Peterlag said:
I have since we have been conversing posted to you and others on here a whole bunch of Bible much of what could be considered some of the greatest biblical viewpoints in the world oh how Jesus is not God and how these little half verses that you post to try to say Jesus is God is just BS. And you have ignored all of it. You have denied all of it. You have refused to see it's great biblical truth. And then you say I post nothing.
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you only address his humanity while neglecting the passages on his divinity in the Godhead. We can agree that he had attributes of all humans. So you do say a few things that are okay. Civic listed a bunch of the pre-existence passages about Jesus. I cannot give those up to just use the humanness verses you quote.
 
mikesw said:
you only address his humanity while neglecting the passages on his divinity in the Godhead. We can agree that he had attributes of all humans. So you do say a few things that are okay. Civic listed a bunch of the pre-existence passages about Jesus. I cannot give those up to just use the humanness verses you quote.
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How old are you?
 
Peterlag said:
There's no teaching here. Not even a sentence teaching that Jesus is God
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Yes, there was. It was just divided between TWO sentences. You simply REFUSE to acknowledge what John said and thus John 3:18 stands in judgement of you as "already condemned".

I leave the dead to bury the dead.
 
To all,
was not the Lord Jesus in heaven, (Spirit, Father, the Ordinal First) while on earth in flesh, (spirit, Son, The Ordinal Last)? Listen and learn. John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

101G.
 
atpollard said:
Yes, there was. It was just divided between TWO sentences. You simply REFUSE to acknowledge what John said and thus John 3:18 stands in judgement of you as "already condemned".

I leave the dead to bury the dead.
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LOL you guys got nothing. Now it's down to well, it's there you just need to be able to find it in between the sentences. Or as someone else said there's little clues you just need to know how to find them.

I know enough about how the Bible is written in the New Testament and in the Gospels to know if there was a trinity it would have been taught. The Gospels would have clearly said...

Verily, verily I say unto you that I am Jesus and I'm also God.

The Epistles would have writings like...

Yay, I Paul do testify that Jesus who is God came down from heaven to be a man for us. And we do know and testify that this same Jesus who you crucified is God. And so let us bow our knee to the one and only true God-Man Jesus Christ.

And yet there's nothing like that anywhere. Not in the Old or New Testament. Not even one complete verse like that.
 
To all, especially the unitarians. @Peterlag.
Who laid the foundation of the earth? Hebrews 1:9 "Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows." Hebrews 1:10 "And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:" if the Lord Jesus is not God, why did the writers here in Hebrews states, that the "Lord" laid the foundation of the earth. the same "Lord" in Psalms 110:1. so clearly according to you, (the unitarians belief), the "Lord" is not the "LORD" correct? now, let's see who laid the Foundation of the earth.... IN THE BEGINNING. Zechariah 12:1 "The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him."

so, who laid the foundation of the earth ... IN THE BEGINNING? which one the "Lord" or the "LORD".... your answer please.

101G.
 

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