Runningman
Well-known member
You’re the only one who seems to know about it.
The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus
- Thread starter Runningman
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The only one as opposed to who else?
Runningman
Well-known member
Seems you're utterly speechless about how to respond to what I showed you regarding Isaiah 9:6. Why do you bring up topics and not see them through?
There you go with the false witness again along with running from the evidence
Acts 1:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
Jesus is the lord
1 Corinthians 8:6 (LSB) — 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
Jude 4 (LSB) — 4 For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
You failed to address the verses and just baldly denied the facts
demonstrating you deliberately twist and deny scripture
Runningman
Well-known member
Tom, I want you to actually read the things you quote since you don't seem to actually be looking at them. None of those mention Jesus as the one who was prayed to. Do you deny the Father is the Lord they prayed to as Scripture teaches? I am calling checkmate. No one every prayed to Jesus in the Bible. My OP is not refutable. Have some class and quit drawing this out longer. Give up.
What part of the argument could you not read and understand
Jesus is the Lord according to the passages you ignored
Following your practice to deny all evidence
Jesus is the lord
1 Corinthians 8:6 (LSB) — 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
Jude 4 (LSB) — 4 For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
civic
Well-known member
kind a like your one line blasphemy statement oh the comedic irony of it all
civic
Well-known member
Notice how they cherry picl the word " ONLY " and make it apply only the the Father and never the Son
EISEGESIS/ BIAS/ PRESUPPOSITIONALISM at its finest in the uni camp. They make it up as the go to deny the Son.
And we know those who deny the Son- Jesus promised the Father will also deny. You cannot have One without the Other as they have in their doctrine. But we know from Jesus teaching they are One, Inseparable, Equal, Co-Creators, Co-Substantial, Both are Lord, God, YHWH, Sovereign over all. Alpha and Omega, First and Last, Beginning and End, the I Am etc....... receiving the same glory, honor, praise, worship and prayer that God alone receives. Both on the One Throne together.
The uni's are up a creek with no paddle, deep in the river of De Nile.
Denial is all he has
Christ clearly is Lord and unless stated otherwise the Lord is Christ
Runningman
Well-known member
None of those verses say Jesus was prayed to in the Greek. It's pretty clear there are no verses that directly say what you are proposing. Can you at least admit that?
Runningman
Well-known member
You don't see calling God a man as a problem? He said He isn't. It isn't a small matter to bear false witness of God.
Hosea 11 (KJV)
9I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.
civic
Well-known member
You don’t even understand the context of the statement and why it was says in the first place. All you can see is “ not man”.
And there is nothing stated that God cannot become man.
Runningman
Well-known member
Jesus is a man and God isn't. This is irrefutable proof that God is not a man. Of course, you may argue if you wish. Each can decide to accept or reject what God said.
Give it up
You are simply in denial
ignoring first what constitutes prayer and then the affirmation Christ is the Lord
civic
Well-known member
1-Wrong to see Jesus is to see the Father
2-No man has seen the Father
3-The Son only does and says what He sees the Father saying and doing
4- The Son is sinless just like the Father
5- the Son is the Creator of everything just like the Father
6- the Son received the sane glory, honor, prayer, worship and praise by all creation the same as the Father
7- the Son is called God just like the Father
8- the Son is identified as YHWH just like the Father
9- God alone is the Saviior/ Redeemer of man and the Son is both just like the Father
10- the Son and the Father are One in nature.
Conclusion:I have dozens more but this is enough to know the Son is God just like the Father is God sharing the exact same qualities and nature as God.
Hope this helps !!!
And that is why the son is to be honored just as the Father. All who deny this dishonor the Father
civic
Well-known member
Exactly which was Jesus point is declaring those words , Amen !!!
Yep. There is one who wishes to ignore the fact the son is to be honored as is the father because all that the Father does, he does alsoExactly which was Jesus point is declaring those words , Amen !!!
Johann
Well-known member
This is error and have already answered elsewhere.
. Ignatius of Antioch (c. 35–107 AD)
Ignatius is one of the earliest church fathers who demonstrates a profound understanding of Christ’s divine authority. He speaks of praying to Jesus and expressing devotion to Him, though he doesn’t offer formal prayers in the sense of modern liturgies.
Quote 1:
“I am the wheat of God, and let me be ground by the teeth of the beasts, that I may be found the pure bread of Christ.”
(Letter to the Romans 4)
While this is not a prayer to Jesus, Ignatius' expression of deep devotion and willingness to die for Christ reflects the early Christian reverence for Jesus. His letters suggest a sense of communion with Christ that extends to prayer.
Quote 2:
“Pray continually for all the saints, for the love of Jesus Christ will not allow you to live a selfish life.”
(Letter to the Ephesians 10)
This indicates an early understanding of the believer's relationship with Christ and the importance of prayer in that relationship.
2. Tertullian (c. 155–220 AD)
Tertullian frequently emphasized the divinity of Jesus and the need for Christians to honor Him as divine. His writings point to a belief in praying to Jesus as part of Christian worship.
Quote:
“We pray to Him as our God, for He is both God and man, the only true mediator between God and man.”
(Against Praxeas 25)
This is one of the clearest early references to praying directly to Jesus, recognizing Him as both God and man. It establishes the foundation for later prayers to Christ, particularly in the context of mediation between humanity and the Father.
3. Origen (c. 185–254 AD)
Origen’s writings affirm the divinity of Christ and often show how early Christians could pray to Jesus as part of their devotion to the Trinity. Though not a liturgical prayer in the modern sense, Origen’s reflections indicate the importance of Christ in Christian worship and prayer.
Quote:
“For the prayer of a Christian is no other than to call on the name of Jesus Christ, through whom we receive forgiveness of sins, the remission of the past, and a promise of eternal life.”
(On Prayer 27)
Origen affirms that prayer to Jesus is a central part of the Christian life. Jesus is the means by which Christians access divine forgiveness and eternal life, making Him the object of their prayer.
4. Cyprian of Carthage (c. 200–258 AD)
Cyprian, a key early Christian writer, saw the importance of prayer to Christ, especially when addressing the issues of salvation and divine mediation.
Quote:
“The Lord’s prayer itself, though He was God, was taught by Christ to us, that we might know how to pray. But to ask God for things is to ask Christ, for Christ is God.”
(Treatise 3, On the Lord’s Prayer 11)
Here, Cyprian emphasizes that praying to God through Christ is central to Christian worship. While he uses the Lord's Prayer as the model, he affirms Christ’s divine role in prayer and mediation.
5. Augustine of Hippo (354–430 AD)
Augustine’s writings are foundational for understanding the Christian life and prayer. Augustine does not shy away from recognizing the role of Jesus in the believer’s prayer life, acknowledging Christ as both the intercessor and recipient of prayer.
Quote 1:
“When we pray, we are praying through Christ, in Christ, and to Christ.”
(On the Trinity 1.2.5)
This quote directly expresses the early Christian understanding that prayer is not only directed to God the Father but also to Jesus, who is the mediator between God and humanity.
Quote 2:
“Let us pray to Christ as our mediator, for we cannot go to the Father except through Him.”
(Expositions of the Psalms 120)
Augustine affirms the practice of praying to Jesus as the mediator of the new covenant, which becomes a standard teaching in Christian doctrine.
6. The Apostolic Tradition of Hippolytus (c. 215 AD)
In this text, the Apostolic Tradition reflects some of the earliest forms of Christian worship, including the prayer of the faithful. It offers prayers and blessings that are directed to God the Father, but Jesus is invoked as part of the worship, signifying His centrality.
Quote:
“Let us offer prayer to God the Father, through Jesus Christ, who is our Savior and King.”
(Apostolic Tradition 8.3)
Though this specific passage does not explicitly show a direct prayer to Jesus, it reflects the understanding that all prayers are made through and in the name of Jesus, highlighting His vital role.
7. The Didascalia Apostolorum (c. 200 AD)
The Didascalia, a Christian manual for church conduct, suggests invoking Christ’s name in prayer as part of daily Christian life and worship.
Quote:
“Pray to God through the Lord Jesus Christ, for through Him you have obtained grace and peace, and through Him you are made partakers of the divine nature.”
(Didascalia Apostolorum 3.14)
This passage shows the early Christian understanding of praying through Jesus and invoking His name as part of their daily prayers.
Summary
The early church fathers did not always pray directly to Jesus in the formal way that later liturgies might, but their writings frequently reflect the practice of invoking His name in prayer, acknowledging His divinity, and emphasizing His central role in salvation. They made clear that prayer to Jesus was natural in the context of His divine mediation and relationship with the Father, something that was essential to the Christian faith even in the early church.
J.
Sorry you ignore many examples of prayer to Christ
1 Corinthians 1:2 (LEB) — 2 to the church of God sanctified in Christ Jesus that is in Corinth, called to be saints, together with all those who call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place, their Lord and ours.
2 Corinthians 12:8 (LEB) — 8 Three times I appealed to the Lord about this, that it would depart from me.
Acts 7:59 (LEB) — 59 And they kept on stoning Stephen as he was calling out and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!”
1 John 5:13–15 (LEB) — 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life. 14 And this is the confidence that we have before him: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked from him.
John 14:13–14 (LEB) — 13 And whatever you ask in my name, I will do this, in order that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.
Acts 1:21–25 (LEB) — 21 Therefore it is necessary for one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time in which the Lord Jesus went in and went out among us, 22 beginning from the baptism of John until the day on which he was taken up from us—one of these men must become a witness of his resurrection together with us.” 23 And they proposed two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was called Justus) and Matthias. 24 And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show clearly which one of these two you have chosen 25 to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to depart to his own place.”
Rather you ignore context and the definition of prayer
