Again, it looks like you have no answer.
That, however, is a rather common occurrence in your posts.
Salvation is according to the will of God
- Thread starter brightfame52
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That, however, is a rather common occurrence in your posts.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Those in 1 Cor 1:21 were already saved in a saved state 1 Cor 1:18
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
The one saved in 1 Cor 1:21 isnt the one perishing or lost in Vs 18, its the one being saved. And its talking about Gospel conversion, not salvation from the penalty of sin. Preaching never saved anybody from the penalty of their sins, Christ alone did that on the Cross.
Give it up
The verse is clear
1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV 1900) — 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
God saves those who believe.
You need to give up your theology and start believing God.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Those in 1 Cor 1:21 are already saved from the penalty of sin, they are being converted to Gospel Salvation. The Lost cant be saved, the Gospel to them is foolishness.
Doesn't matter they were saved through their belief
The verse is clear
1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV 1900) — 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
God saves those who believe.
You need to give up your theology and start believing God.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Those in 1 Cor 1:21 are already saved from the penalty of sin, they are being converted to Gospel Salvation. The Lost cant be saved, the Gospel to them is foolishness. Also 1 Cor 1:21 is limited to the called/chosen, not everyone vs
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 ;But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
You are ignoring this
Doesn't matter they were saved through their belief
The verse is clear
1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV 1900) — 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
God saves those who believe.
You need to give up your theology and start believing God.
BTW the foolish is preaching
brightfame52
Well-known member
Those in 1 Cor 1:21 are already saved from the penalty of sin, they are being converted to Gospel Salvation. The Lost cant be saved, the Gospel to them is foolishness. Also 1 Cor 1:21 is limited to the called/chosen, not everyone vs
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 ;But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty
brightfame52
Well-known member
@TomL
We know these here being saved via preaching, they were already saved from the penalty of sin, also the power of sin, they were regenerated, spiritual people, for remember, the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God as these did 1 Cor 2:12-14
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
This is salvation or saving from ignorance unto knowledge of the Truth
We know these here being saved via preaching, they were already saved from the penalty of sin, also the power of sin, they were regenerated, spiritual people, for remember, the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God as these did 1 Cor 2:12-14
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
This is salvation or saving from ignorance unto knowledge of the Truth
What we know is God saves those that believe
1 Corinthians 1:21 (NASB95) — 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
Your claim is a desperate attempt to avoid the word of God
John 20:31 (NASB95) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.
John 3:16 (NASB95) — 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:36 (NASB95) — 36 “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
John 6:40 (NASB95) — 40 “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
Acts 16:31 (NASB95) — 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Stop you rejection of the word of God
r
brightfame52
Well-known member
Romans 16:25 “Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ…” It is through the preaching of Christ and the Gospel that the born again children of God are established and maintained throughout their life on earth. We also read that the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation “to every one that believeth (Romans 1:16)”, NOT to everyone that WILL believe (as was quoted to me by someone recently). The word “believeth” is a present participle (something that has already taken place) as it is in 1 Cor 1:21: “it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe”, (literally to save those believing, a present participle) implying that the Gospel is the means of establishing the Spiritually living children of God in the faith. When the Gospel of Christ is preached to the Spiritually born child of God, therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith (Romans1:17)
www.pristinegrace.org
The Spirit and the Word - Mike Krall
There are many that claim that the work of the Spirit cannot be separated from the Word of God in the work of redemption. As a result they claim that the work of regeneration, alth
www.pristinegrace.org
Even your own comments show God saves those that believeRomans 16:25 “Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ…” It is through the preaching of Christ and the Gospel that the born again children of God are established and maintained throughout their life on earth. We also read that the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation “to every one that believeth (Romans 1:16)”, NOT to everyone that WILL believe (as was quoted to me by someone recently). The word “believeth” is a present participle (something that has already taken place) as it is in 1 Cor 1:21: “it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe”, (literally to save those believing, a present participle) implying that the Gospel is the means of establishing the Spiritually living children of God in the faith. When the Gospel of Christ is preached to the Spiritually born child of God, therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith (Romans1:17)
The Spirit and the Word - Mike Krall
There are many that claim that the work of the Spirit cannot be separated from the Word of God in the work of redemption. As a result they claim that the work of regeneration, alth
Salvation is preceded by belief
brightfame52
Well-known member
While showing that Salvation is according to the will of God, so is the damnation of the non elect, yes God Sovereigny chose who would be saved according to His will and who would be lost, damned forever. At this point, many people will object that such a thing just could not be true, doesn’t the Bible teach that anyone can believe in Jesus Christ and be saved? How could anyone assert that God has chosen certain people to be cast into an eternal death in hell? The vessels of wrath whom as Potter, He made fashioned them to fit them for destruction Rom 9:20-22
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Total out of context appeal
God had chosen Israelites for a noble purpose. Israel, however, was mostly unfaithful, so God would use them for an ignoble purpose
In the Old Testament reference
Jeremiah 18:1–13 (LEB) — 1 The word that came to Jeremiah from Yahweh, saying, 2 “Stand up and go down to the house of the potter, and there I will let you hear my words.” 3 So I went down to the house of the potter and look, there he was doing work at the potter’s wheels. 4 And the vessel that he was making with the clay was spoiled in the hand of the potter, so he made again another vessel, as it was right in the eyes of the potter to make. 5 And the word of Yahweh came to me, saying, 6 “Like this potter, am I not able to do to you, O house of Israel?” declares Yahweh. “Look, like the clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel. 7 One moment I speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom, to uproot, and to tear down, and to destroy it. 8 But if that nation turns back from its evil that I have threatened against it, then I will relent concerning the disaster that I planned to do to it. 9 And the next moment I speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom, to build, and to plant it. 10 But if it does evil in my sight, to not listen to my voice, then I will relent concerning the good that I said I would do to it. 11 “So now then, say, please, to the people of Judah and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, ‘Thus says Yahweh, “Look, I am preparing evil against you, and I am planning a plan against you. Please turn back, each one from his evil way, and walk rightly in your ways and your deeds.” ’ 12 But they will say, ‘It is hopeless, for we will go after our own plans, and each one of us will act according to the stubbornness of his evil heart.’ 13 “Therefore thus says Yahweh, ‘Please ask among the nations, “Who has heard the like of this?” The virgin of Israel has done something very horrible.
God's response is based upon the faithfulness or the lack of same on those he promised good.
There is no predetermined destiny for the people
brightfame52
Well-known member
@TomL
Damnation is according to the will of God, God chose men for condemnation Jude 1:4
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Damnation is according to the will of God, God chose men for condemnation Jude 1:4
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Try again
Jude says these false teachers were “ordained to this condemnation.” The word “ordained” would indicate that it was the decree of God that these men should be false teachers. However, the word in the Greek text has quite a different connotation. It is prographō (προγραφω), “to write beforehand.”
Mayor translates, “to designate.” The reference is to the prophecy of Enoch with regard to these false teachers (v. 14). The word “to” is eis (εἰς), and should be translated here “with reference to.” “Condemnation” is krima (κριμα), in this context, “judgment,” in the sense of the condemnation of wrong, the decision which one passes on the faults of others. Enoch wrote beforehand (prophesied) concerning the fact of the stealthy entrance of these men into the midst of the people of God and true doctrine, the word “this” referring to their creeping in unawares, the word “condemnation” (judgment) speaking of the estimation of their activities as being wrong.
Kenneth S. Wuest, Wuest’s Word Studies from the Greek New Testament: For the English Reader (vol. 16; Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1997), 237.
brightfame52
Well-known member
You ignored the reply
Jude says these false teachers were “ordained to this condemnation.” The word “ordained” would indicate that it was the decree of God that these men should be false teachers. However, the word in the Greek text has quite a different connotation. It is prographō (προγραφω), “to write beforehand.”
Mayor translates, “to designate.” The reference is to the prophecy of Enoch with regard to these false teachers (v. 14). The word “to” is eis (εἰς), and should be translated here “with reference to.” “Condemnation” is krima (κριμα), in this context, “judgment,” in the sense of the condemnation of wrong, the decision which one passes on the faults of others. Enoch wrote beforehand (prophesied) concerning the fact of the stealthy entrance of these men into the midst of the people of God and true doctrine, the word “this” referring to their creeping in unawares, the word “condemnation” (judgment) speaking of the estimation of their activities as being wrong.
Kenneth S. Wuest, Wuest’s Word Studies from the Greek New Testament: For the English Reader (vol. 16; Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1997), 237.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
No one says it is…
Of course, God must always move toward us first; he is the offended party, and as such is the only one with the power to forgive and allow reconciliation to happen. This doesn’t mean man’s will has no independent responsibility in the process.
God purposes a lot of things which men reject. Is it not the will of God that “all men be saved”? All men are not saved!
This is a specific statement about a specific role that God wanted Paul to play. It says nothing directly about soteriology.
Man cannot will anything into existence that God has not allowed to happen. Man’s will is not sovereign over God’s will.
Again, only the offended party has the power to forgive and reconcile, so man’s will is always powerless to accomplish anything.
Doug
brightfame52
Well-known member
Nothing has changed, God ordained some to condemnation before they were ever born
