Salvation is according to the will of God

Shannon said:
I'll say it. Total depravity is not the truth. It's implied to try an win arguments. Total depravity does not mean all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. In Calvinist theology it means that man is incapable of anything good because everything he does is corrupted whether it is good or bad, and that is not true. Abraham’s faith in God was not corrupt. Abraham is the father of faith and we are encouraged in the new testament to walk in the steps of Abraham’s faith.
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Total Depravity is a Gospel Truth because it shows why Grace in Salvation is supreme.
 
brightfame52 said:
Total Depravity is a Gospel Truth because it shows why Grace in Salvation is supreme.
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If all humanity were totally depraved, then this would include Abel, yet the apostle John tells us that Abel’s works were righteous. Remember the definition of depravity is a very evil quality or way of behaving: an evil or immoral act. The Bible never describes Abel in this way. On the contrary, the Bible repeatedly describes Abel and his works as righteous.
 
Shannon said:
If all humanity were totally depraved, then this would include Abel, yet the apostle John tells us that Abel’s works were righteous. Remember the definition of depravity is a very evil quality or way of behaving: an evil or immoral act. The Bible never describes Abel in this way. On the contrary, the Bible repeatedly describes Abel and his works as righteous.
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All humanity is depraved
 
brightfame52 said:
All humanity is depraved
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Not true, you are being deceived. The truth is, if humans are intrinsically sinful in their essence (i.e. “sinful nature”), then God created sin. The Reformed will of course argue, “No, man was created with a good nature, but that nature changed.” But how can a nature change? A nature is the definition of a thing, and can only be defined by the one who creates the thing. What is the nature of a brick, for example? It’s a small, rectangular, hand-held fire-baked building block. If a single brick is broken, it doesn’t change the definition of brick nature. even if someone destroys every brick in the world, that still doesn’t change the definition of what a brick is. It doesn’t change brick nature. A man cannot change his nature any more than a brick could change its nature. Only God can change the nature/definition/essence of a thing. But to do so would make God the author of sin. . . . . . .

To take it to a more personal level, did God make you personally? Did He knit you together in your mother’s womb? If not, then God is not your creator, and I suppose it doesn’t matter what He thinks. But if He did create you, then what kind of nature did He create you with? A good nature, or a sinful nature? The answer that the church has historically given is that you are created with a good nature. You are created in the image of God. You are created to be an icon of God—a picture of God, here on earth.

It is generally agreed among the Reformed that Christ was fully God and fully human. Unfortunately, the implications of this are not always understood by the Reformed. For if Christ is fully human, then He must have a human soul, a human will, a human mind—in short, a human nature. And yet He was without sin. This tells us that sin is not an integral part of human nature, and that one is still human apart from sin. Otherwise, either 1) Christ was just as sinful as we are, or else 2) Christ wasn’t fully human and can’t really save us.

not for itching ears.com

John 1:14 – And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
Heb 2:11, 17 – For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren … Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High priest in things pertaining to God, to make expiation for the sins of the people.
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brightfame52 said:
@MTMattie



You've lost track. Jesus by His Death delivers them He died for from unbelief, false religion in the world, according to the will of God Gal 1:4

4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
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There you go again,

You have been preaching non stop that those in the flesh cannot please God and therefore are not to be accepted. (You inplied it)

Now you say " He died for from unbelief, false religion in the world, according to the will of God Gal 1:4"

So which is it? It cannot be both.
 
Jay said:
Not true, you are being deceived. The truth is, if humans are intrinsically sinful in their essence (i.e. “sinful nature”), then God created sin. The Reformed will of course argue, “No, man was created with a good nature, but that nature changed.” But how can a nature change? A nature is the definition of a thing, and can only be defined by the one who creates the thing. What is the nature of a brick, for example? It’s a small, rectangular, hand-held fire-baked building block. If a single brick is broken, it doesn’t change the definition of brick nature. even if someone destroys every brick in the world, that still doesn’t change the definition of what a brick is. It doesn’t change brick nature. A man cannot change his nature any more than a brick could change its nature. Only God can change the nature/definition/essence of a thing. But to do so would make God the author of sin. . . . . . .

To take it to a more personal level, did God make you personally? Did He knit you together in your mother’s womb? If not, then God is not your creator, and I suppose it doesn’t matter what He thinks. But if He did create you, then what kind of nature did He create you with? A good nature, or a sinful nature? The answer that the church has historically given is that you are created with a good nature. You are created in the image of God. You are created to be an icon of God—a picture of God, here on earth.

It is generally agreed among the Reformed that Christ was fully God and fully human. Unfortunately, the implications of this are not always understood by the Reformed. For if Christ is fully human, then He must have a human soul, a human will, a human mind—in short, a human nature. And yet He was without sin. This tells us that sin is not an integral part of human nature, and that one is still human apart from sin. Otherwise, either 1) Christ was just as sinful as we are, or else 2) Christ wasn’t fully human and can’t really save us.

not for itching ears.com
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All humanity is totally depraved
 
brightfame52 said:
Total Depravity is a Gospel Truth because it shows why Grace in Salvation is supreme.
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If Total Depravity is a Gospel Truth what about Abraham?

The scriptures tells us, Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:3, 9, 22; Galatians 3; 6; James 2:23).

Abraham had integrity of heart (Genesis 20:5-6) and a faithful heart towards God(Nehemiah 9:7, 8) and Abraham is called the friend of God (2 Chronicles 20:7; Isaiah 41:8; James 2:23). Throughout scripture God is referred to as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Matthew 32:22; Mark 12:26; Luke 20:37; Acts 3:13; 7:32).
 
Shannon said:
If Total Depravity is a Gospel Truth what about Abraham?

The scriptures tells us, Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:3, 9, 22; Galatians 3; 6; James 2:23).

Abraham had integrity of heart (Genesis 20:5-6) and a faithful heart towards God(Nehemiah 9:7, 8) and Abraham is called the friend of God (2 Chronicles 20:7; Isaiah 41:8; James 2:23). Throughout scripture God is referred to as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Matthew 32:22; Mark 12:26; Luke 20:37; Acts 3:13; 7:32).
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What about Abraham ? He was saved by Grace !
 
brightfame52 said:
Same blessed Truth is found in Col 1:12-13

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

To be delivered from the power of darkness is to be delivered from unbelief and ignorance.
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Nothing there about being delivered from unbelief.

Rather those who believe are delivered from their sin.

Acts 10:43 (LEB) — 43 To this one all the prophets testify, that through his name everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.”
 
Ahar said:
What part of John Calvin's man made gospel is:

God is definitely “not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.” 2 Peter 3:9

Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’ Ezekiel 33:11

(God) who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.1 Timothy 2:4
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The only ones God isnt willing that they perish is His elect, His special little flock of sheep Matt 18:11-14

11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?

13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
 
brightfame52 said:
Ones Salvation isn't by the will of man, but according to the Sovereign will and purpose of God. 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose[will] and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

In the same manner Paul was made an believing Apostle not by his own freewill but by the Sovereign will of God 2 Cor 1:1

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

Believers were saved from this present world not by their freewill choice, but by the Sovereign will of God

Gal 1:4

4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

The word delivered exaireō means:

to rescue, deliver (properly, to cause to be rescued
It also implies election because it means as well
  1. to pluck out, draw out, i.e. root out
  2. to choose out (for one's self), select, one person from many

So Paul says in Vs 5

5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Our Salvation is to the Glory of God, not the so called freewill of man , so to place Salvation/Deliverance to the will of man is an attack on the Glory of God !
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So how can you be certain that God has elected you? Maybe you weren't chosen.
 
If you want to find out how insincere and fake are : Hyper Calvinists, (5 pointers).....who teach that free will does not exist and that you must be born again to then be able to believe in Jesus.... (which is nonsense).... as God does not give the new Birth to a sinner until they are forgiven, and everyone is a sinner until they believe in Jesus........ .and then God deals with their sins..

So, when dealing with this nutty nutbar theology, you find out that these people have God joining himself to an UNBELIEVER, not forgiven yet... so that they can THEN BELIEVE In Jesus and be forgiven.

That will never happen, as God does not join Himself to SIN, a sinner unforgiven.. yet, these Hyper Tulips, will tell you He does.

Thsy enjoy this LIE.

So, when talking to these deceive Tulip Heads... you might find out who in their family, isn't "predestined" to be saved.
See, predestined to be saved theology, does not teach that everyone in your family will be chosen... so that means some are not, which means they are chosen to go to hell.

And when these TULIP"d deceivers lie and say......>>"oh ALL my family is predestined".. then you've discovered something about these liars.
And that is... Just like a muslim, who is a fanatical Islamist.... Tulip Heads = will lie to you.
 
dwight92070 said:
So how can you be certain that God has elected you? Maybe you weren't chosen.
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That is a problem that began almost as soon as any accepted Calvin's teachings. I once read a history of Calvinism, which I cannot now locate, which described the early believers keeping detailed records of what they considered to be the "fruit of the Spirit" hoping it would show some indication that they in fact were among the elect. Of course, the question which is never answered and can't be answered is just how much of that "fruit of the Spirit" does it take to really solidify one as being among the elect.
 

Giving Thanks to God for Salvation !​


To those of us who truly know that Salvation is of the Lord Ps 3:8

8 Salvation belongeth unto the Lord: thy blessing is upon thy people. Selah.

Jonah 2:9

But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the Lord.

Rev 7:9-10

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

We know that by His Absolute Sovereignty He espoused us in His Love from Everlasting in Christ Jesus, and therefore did not appoint us to wrath as He did others, but that we should obtain Salvation by Jesus Christ Our Lord

1 Thess 5:8-10

8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
 

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