Salvation and Unitarians

[Fred]

I love my daughter even though she is not God.

Strawman.
You really should stop with such lousy arguments.


If you pointed to a 60 year old man and said, "She is my daughter who I love" it wouldn't make any sense.

That really wouldn't be your daughter.


The same with affirming that one can love Jesus but deny He is God. It too wouldn't make any sense.

That wouldn't really be the Jesus of the Bible.

 

[Wrangler]

Strawman.

If you pointed to a 60 year old man and said, "She is my daughter who I love" it wouldn't make any sense.

That really wouldn't be your daughter.


The same with affirming that one can love Jesus but deny He is God. It too wouldn't make any sense.

That wouldn't really be the Jesus of the Bible.

I'm not making an argument. So, there is no Strawman. Just stating facts.

1. I love my daughter.
2. My daughter is not God.

Regarding your claim that we can only love somone, including Jesus, if we think they are god is foolish on its face. We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Fred]

I'm not making an argument. So, there is no Strawman. Just stating facts.

You are attempting to do both.

1. I love my daughter.
2. My daughter is not God.

Great.
Which has nothing to do with what I affirmed.

Regarding your claim that we can only love somone, including Jesus, if we think they are god is foolish

I never made that claim.
It's shocking how you twist things.

Pay attention: I affirmed those who deny Jesus is God don't love Him even though they say they do.
Why? Because they are not loving the TRUE JESUS of the Bible.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I'm not agreeing to that.
Anyone who denies the Lord Jesus is God is wrong.
Plain and simple.

 

[civic]

Wow!

I watched a vid last year of an old pastor who converted to unitarianism. One thing he said stuck with me. Trinitarianism does NOT produce the fruit of the Spirit. Their nastiness really comes out when all you do is believe differently about God.

Over the years I have seen both sides guilty and neither side is immune. I use to be one of those condescending trins on an old forum most of us came from. I’m trying to be different now in my approach with everyone I disagree with on certain doctrines regardless if they are trins or not.

Now I would rather kill you ( not literally ) with kindness and present the truth from scripture. The funny thing is everyone in every different faith believes they know and stand on the truth.

 

[civic]

I'm not making an argument. So, there is no Strawman. Just stating facts.

1. I love my daughter.
2. My daughter is not God.

Regarding your claim that we can only love somone, including Jesus, if we think they are god is foolish on its face. We'll have to agree to disagree.

You make a reasonable and valid point.

 

[civic]

You are attempting to do both.


Great.
Which has nothing to do with what I affirmed.



I never made that claim.
It's shocking how you twist things.

Pay attention: I affirmed those who deny Jesus is God don't love Him even though they say they do.
Why? Because they are not loving the TRUE JESUS of the Bible.



I'm not agreeing to that.
Anyone who denies the Lord Jesus is God is wrong.
Plain and simple.

Fred even though I agree with the deity of Christ it’s implied not explicitly stated one must believe it to be saved. Is Jesus called God, worshiped as God and prayed to ? Yes but where is that stated in the gospel one must believe that to be saved ?

 

[Fred]

Fred even though I agree with the deity of Christ it’s implied not explicitly stated one must believe it to be saved. Is Jesus called God, worshiped as God and prayed to ? Yes but where is that stated in the gospel one must believe that to be saved ?

Romans 10:8, 13
(8) But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
(13) for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.” (Joel 2:32; Joel 3:5 LXX)

One cannot deny the Lord Jesus is YHWH (Romans 10:13) and be a Christian since a major component of the gospel that Paul preached included this important truth (Romans 10:8).

The same applies with Peter (recorded by Luke) in Acts 2:21 where believing the Lord Jesus is YHWH was also a major component of the gospel that Peter preached.

 

[Wrangler]

Over the years I have seen both sides guilty and neither side is immune. I use to be one of those condescending trins on an old forum most of us came from. I’m trying to be different now in my approach with everyone I disagree with on certain doctrines regardless if they are trins or not.

Now I would ratter kill you ( not literally ) with kindness and present the truth from scripture. The funny thing is everyone in every different faith believes they know and stand on the truth.

I've noticed 2 things in these discussions:

1. Trinitarians never admit there is a single good point in opposition to their doctrine.
2. Trinitarians never chastise other trintiarians for their nastiness in talking to non-trinitarians.

 

[Wrangler]

You make a reasonable and valid point.

Yippy!

See post above! Finally!! Someone acknowledges a valid point made by a nontrintiarian. Will wonders never cease.

 

[Fred]

I've noticed 2 things in these discussions:

1. Trinitarians never admit there is a single good point in opposition to their doctrine.

The only thing good about it is that it makes me study even more to refute the false teaching presented.

 

[civic]

I've noticed 2 things in these discussions:

1. Trinitarians never admit there is a single good point in opposition to their doctrine.
2. Trinitarians never chastise other trintiarians for their nastiness in talking to non-trinitarians.

Actually you can’t say never as I do both

 

[Wrangler]

Romans 10:8-13
(8) But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
(13) for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.” (Joel 2:32; Joel 3:5 LXX)

Sadly, you are pretending the above verse says Jesus. You cannot even admit it does not say Jesus.

Ever hear of the difference between squares and rectangles?

• All rectangles are squares but not all squares are rectangles.
• YHWH is a lord but not all lords are YHWH.

 

[Wrangler]

Actually you can’t say never as I do both

I would've bet I'd be called out for using the n-word.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Post of the year!

What utter nonsense.

I love my daughter even though she is not God.



No Scripture says Jesus is YHWH, which goes to show how desperate you are to defend the indensible.

See. You put yourself in the position of God. Your daughter isn't Jesus Christ and you are not the object of angelic worship.

 

[Wrangler]

See. You put yourself in the position of God

How do you figure?

Jesus told us to love others. Are you suggesting Jesus meant you can only love others if they are God? Keep attempting to defend the indefensible.

 

[Fred]

Sadly, you are pretending the above verse says Jesus. You cannot even admit it does not say Jesus.

Ever hear of the difference between squares and rectangles?

• All rectangles are squares but not all squares are rectangles.
• YHWH is a lord but not all lords are YHWH.

"Lord" in Romans 10:13 refers to Jesus.

Now pay attention: I specifically demonstrated WITH EVIDENCE that it does.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/prayer.114/#post-4761

Jesus is Lord meaning YHWH because Paul (and others) quote OT texts about YHWH and apply it in reference TO JESUS.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Sadly, you are pretending the above verse says Jesus. You cannot even admit it does not say Jesus.

Ever hear of the difference between squares and rectangles?

• All rectangles are squares but not all squares are rectangles.
• YHWH is a lord but not all lords are YHWH.

The context is the Lord Jesus Christ. The phrase is found 15 times in the letter to Rome. There is zero doubt that Jesus is who is being referenced.

 

[Wrangler]

I would've bet I'd be called out for using the n-word.

I suppose to mirror our discussions about John 1:1, I should have wrote "I would've bet I'd be called out for using a n-word."

 

[praise_yeshua]

How do you figure?

Jesus told us to love others. Are you suggesting Jesus meant you can only love others if they are God? Keep attempting to defend the indefensible.

No. You compared your flawed sense of love to the Love of God. You are not God but your conflating your love to be equal to His.

 

[Wrangler]

“Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.” (Joel 2:32; Joel 3:5 LXX)

The context is the Lord Jesus Christ

Sorry Charlie. Joel was written before Jesus was even a twinkle in God's eye, i.e., before Jesus was born.